Author Topic: Free agency starts / reported signings (merged)  (Read 126992 times)

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Re: Free agency starts / reported signings (merged)
« Reply #780 on: July 08, 2023, 09:18:05 PM »

Online Roy H.

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John wall working out for teams in Vegas.

I wonder if the Celtics have any interest

I’m sure they’ll go to a workout, but I don’t think they’ll go beyond that.

Brad Steven's track record is that he tends not to go for these over the hill veteran types.  There will be many that no doubt will advocate for him and then complain if he ends up signing in MIA or something.  I can't imagine he would be any help at all to the Celtics.  But brace yourself for the "it was dumb to sign Banton, we could have had Wall"; "Brad is horrible at FA"; "the Celtics are cheap and don't care about winning"; posts starting soon and continuing through the season.

I'm not sure that Wall is the right fit, but if Brad chooses not to pursue him and he has a great year, why shouldn't Brad be criticized?


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Re: Free agency starts / reported signings (merged)
« Reply #781 on: July 08, 2023, 09:27:36 PM »

Online Vermont Green

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John wall working out for teams in Vegas.

I wonder if the Celtics have any interest

I’m sure they’ll go to a workout, but I don’t think they’ll go beyond that.

Brad Steven's track record is that he tends not to go for these over the hill veteran types.  There will be many that no doubt will advocate for him and then complain if he ends up signing in MIA or something.  I can't imagine he would be any help at all to the Celtics.  But brace yourself for the "it was dumb to sign Banton, we could have had Wall"; "Brad is horrible at FA"; "the Celtics are cheap and don't care about winning"; posts starting soon and continuing through the season.

I'm not sure that Wall is the right fit, but if Brad chooses not to pursue him and he has a great year, why shouldn't he be criticized?

There will likely be several players that the Celtics don't pursue that end up doing something on some other team.  But there will also be hundreds that the Celtics don't pursue that end up doing nothing.   I am not trying to judge what any fan can criticize or not, I am just offering my opinion that it seems very selective to me.  You are one for sure who will pick every opportunity to criticize the end of the roster choices, but you are far from alone.  You are already suggesting this.  If Wall becomes one of the couple out of a hundred that actually ends up doing something for another team, you feel the Celtics should be criticized for not taking him, and I am sure you will.  Nothing wrong with a fan doing that and nothing wrong with me disagreeing with the criticism, right?
« Last Edit: July 08, 2023, 09:33:44 PM by Vermont Green »

Re: Free agency starts / reported signings (merged)
« Reply #782 on: July 08, 2023, 09:39:53 PM »

Online Roy H.

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John wall working out for teams in Vegas.

I wonder if the Celtics have any interest

I’m sure they’ll go to a workout, but I don’t think they’ll go beyond that.

Brad Steven's track record is that he tends not to go for these over the hill veteran types.  There will be many that no doubt will advocate for him and then complain if he ends up signing in MIA or something.  I can't imagine he would be any help at all to the Celtics.  But brace yourself for the "it was dumb to sign Banton, we could have had Wall"; "Brad is horrible at FA"; "the Celtics are cheap and don't care about winning"; posts starting soon and continuing through the season.

I'm not sure that Wall is the right fit, but if Brad chooses not to pursue him and he has a great year, why shouldn't he be criticized?

There will likely be several players that the Celtics don't pursue that end up doing something on some other team.  But there will also be hundreds that the Celtics don't pursue that end up doing nothing.   I am not trying to judge what any fan can criticize or not, I am just offering my opinion that it seems very selective to me.  You are one for sure who will pick every opportunity to criticize the end of the roster choices, but you are far from alone.  You are already suggesting this.  If Wall becomes one of the couple out of a hundred that actually ends up doing something for another team, you feel the Celtics should be criticized for not taking him, and I am sure you will.  Nothing wrong with a fan doing that and nothing wrong with me disagreeing with the criticism, right?

Yes, if Brad doesn't land capable free agents, his philosophy and/or capability should be questioned.

And "a couple out of a hundred"?  You think minimum free agents have a 2% success rate?


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Re: Free agency starts / reported signings (merged)
« Reply #783 on: July 08, 2023, 09:46:56 PM »

Offline radiohead

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https://hoopshype.com/2023/07/08/dion-waiters-and-harry-giles-iii-plan-to-hold-workouts-for-teams/

Should we be interested with these guys? Giles still intrigues me, and he can still sign for a 2 way deal.

Re: Free agency starts / reported signings (merged)
« Reply #784 on: July 08, 2023, 09:58:05 PM »

Offline celticinorlando

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Didn’t they pass on Giles last year and the year before?

Re: Free agency starts / reported signings (merged)
« Reply #785 on: July 08, 2023, 10:08:19 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Didn’t they pass on Giles last year and the year before?

He's Tatum's close friend too, right? And they still keep passing on him. Wall, Giles and Waiters are all doing private workouts, and all three of them are cooked.

Re: Free agency starts / reported signings (merged)
« Reply #786 on: July 08, 2023, 10:08:57 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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John wall working out for teams in Vegas.

I wonder if the Celtics have any interest

I’m sure they’ll go to a workout, but I don’t think they’ll go beyond that.

Brad Steven's track record is that he tends not to go for these over the hill veteran types.  There will be many that no doubt will advocate for him and then complain if he ends up signing in MIA or something.  I can't imagine he would be any help at all to the Celtics.  But brace yourself for the "it was dumb to sign Banton, we could have had Wall"; "Brad is horrible at FA"; "the Celtics are cheap and don't care about winning"; posts starting soon and continuing through the season.

I'm not sure that Wall is the right fit, but if Brad chooses not to pursue him and he has a great year, why shouldn't Brad be criticized?

Sure, but do you honestly think Wall has a chance of having a great year?

Re: Free agency starts / reported signings (merged)
« Reply #787 on: July 08, 2023, 10:19:18 PM »

Online Roy H.

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https://hoopshype.com/2023/07/08/dion-waiters-and-harry-giles-iii-plan-to-hold-workouts-for-teams/

Should we be interested with these guys? Giles still intrigues me, and he can still sign for a 2 way deal.

Giles on a two-way makes sense, Waiters not so much.


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Re: Free agency starts / reported signings (merged)
« Reply #788 on: July 08, 2023, 10:28:42 PM »

Offline Celtics2021

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John wall working out for teams in Vegas.

I wonder if the Celtics have any interest

I’m sure they’ll go to a workout, but I don’t think they’ll go beyond that.

Brad Steven's track record is that he tends not to go for these over the hill veteran types.  There will be many that no doubt will advocate for him and then complain if he ends up signing in MIA or something.  I can't imagine he would be any help at all to the Celtics.  But brace yourself for the "it was dumb to sign Banton, we could have had Wall"; "Brad is horrible at FA"; "the Celtics are cheap and don't care about winning"; posts starting soon and continuing through the season.

I'm not sure that Wall is the right fit, but if Brad chooses not to pursue him and he has a great year, why shouldn't Brad be criticized?

Sure, but do you honestly think Wall has a chance of having a great year?

Seriously.  His defense was suspect in the prime of his career — how good must his offense be now to have a great year, or even just a good year, after all his body has gone through?  He might be able to put up some good counting stats on another team, but he was dumped all of four months ago by the Clippers who were desperate for any kind of production from the PG position.

Re: Free agency starts / reported signings (merged)
« Reply #789 on: July 08, 2023, 10:55:55 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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So Saric finally joins the Warriors.

That does not disappoint me all that much.  Saric may bounce back, he is still young enough, but he has not really done much of anything for several injury riddled seasons.

I think a trade for a bench PF/C (with the TPE and picks) is the more likely avenue to fill this role at this point, although I would not be against bringing in Wood on a min contract.  He will probably end up in MIA or LAL though.  So be it.

We aren’t using the TPE and picks to get someone this year.  Not happening.  If a trade nets us another bench player, it will be because we traded Brogdon for two players.  We’re not going above the second apron.

We don’t need to use the full TPE. We could get someone for around $5 million then cut either Champagnie or Kornet. The net would be only adding about $3 million.  Not suggesting, we just add $6 million to the cap.

It is not likely. But this is something that can be worked out.

But that’s what the MLE is for, not the TPE.

If we use some or all of the MLE, we hard cap ourselves.  If we use the TPE, we are not hard capped.  Both are options.  I see a few options we could go after with the TPE that seem to me more likely than getting a useful bench PF at this point the the MLE:

Isaiah Stewart      $5.3M
Jalen Smith          $5.0M
Jaden McDaniels    $3.9M
Precious Achiuwa  $4.4M
Jon. Kuminga       $6.0M

Again, my idea is to trade for them using picks and the TPE, but also waive Champagnie or Kornet to stay at 14 roster spots and reduce the net impact to the cap.  To me, this is a perfectly viable option.  They probably won't do anything with it but to me, swapping Champagnie in particular for an actual useful PF, for the cost of some picks, would be a really good value transaction.

If I was Brad, I would see if Detroit would trade Stewart for Pritchard+a 2024 first. Then just look to add a 3rd string PG to replace him (and keep under the 2nd apron). Stewart would be a great fit here.
I like Vermont Green’s deal better because Pritchard is an ok 3rd guard. Really like the idea of Beef Stew on this team, with Jaden McD my 2nd choice from VG’s list of PFs.

It'd be very hard to keep a team like that under the 2nd apron, which seems like a non-starter for Brad. Pritchard making ~$4 million means he probably has to go to bring in salary above whatever our MLE max is

I don't think that is necessarily true although I will admit that the exact figures are hard to confirm.  The consensus of the experts on here is that based on our current 14 signed players, two of which are non-guaranteed, we have between $3M and $4M of room before we get to the second apron.  Again, I admit that I don't know the exact value.  So if we waive Champagnie or Kornet, that fees up $2.0M to $2.5M more or in the range of $5M-$6m.  That space can be used either with a MLE signing (which would hard cap us) or could be used by trading using the TPE (which would not hard cap us).  Trading Pritchard ($4M) and replacing him with a vet min contract is another way to free up additional salary in the event that we hard cap ourselves by using the MLE or if we decide not to exceed the second apron.

So I believe that a trade, using a portion of the TPE, along with waiving Champagnie and/or Kornet would work and allow us to stay under the second apron.  But keep in mind that if we don't use the MLE, we are not forced to stay under the second apron.  There is an unresolved debate as to whether or not there is a benefit to the Celtics to stay under this.  And even if we are over it to start the season, salary can be manipulated during the season to get back under before the end of the season.

There have been several posts that attempt to break down how much of the $5M MLE we could use and stay within the hard cap limitation.  If we can do something with the MLE, then we could also do something with the TPE, but again, using some or all of the TPE does not hard cap us.  The Celtics can choose to stay under the second apron, but would not be forced to.  The MLE options are very limited at this point. Considering using the TPE opens up more options, and in my mind, some better ones.  If you want to trade Pritchard too, that is fine, I would prefer to try and keep Pritchard, and I would prefer not to be hard capped.

Only if we drop to 13 players, which would be a bad idea. Even if you replace them with a rookie minimum contract, you still can't reach the $5.3 million that Stewart makes.

Actually, it's worth considering that we wouldn't need to be under the 2nd apron all year, just at the end of the year. So we could bring in someone like Stewart with the TPE, then wait until the trade deadline to see if Brown/White/Rob are on track to miss any of their incentives to help push us back under the apron (and deal Pritchard if we aren't).

The worst case scenario I see for us this year is letting Grant walk despite a reasonable contract, and then going over the second apron anyway. If we're gonna go over the apron, we should go as far over it as (reasonably) possible. Only the financial penalties increase the further over you go.
I'm bitter.

Re: Free agency starts / reported signings (merged)
« Reply #790 on: July 08, 2023, 10:58:37 PM »

Offline radiohead

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Didn’t they pass on Giles last year and the year before?

Apparently Giles underwent a full year of training last season in an effort to come back this year. If he shows something during the workouts then maybe a 2 way makes sense? He was the only guy in JT’s class that he (JT) felt was better than him. Maybe he can still be serviceable as a role player.

Re: Free agency starts / reported signings (merged)
« Reply #791 on: July 08, 2023, 11:09:10 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Didn’t they pass on Giles last year and the year before?

Apparently Giles underwent a full year of training last season in an effort to come back this year. If he shows something during the workouts then maybe a 2 way makes sense? He was the only guy in JT’s class that he (JT) felt was better than him. Maybe he can still be serviceable as a role player.

Also, JT personally lobbied both the league and the union to make guys like Giles eligible for a two-way.

https://clutchpoints.com/celtics-news-jayson-tatum-move-help-out-duke-teammate-new-cba


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Re: Free agency starts / reported signings (merged)
« Reply #792 on: July 09, 2023, 12:52:41 AM »

Offline obnoxiousmime

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Didn’t they pass on Giles last year and the year before?

Apparently Giles underwent a full year of training last season in an effort to come back this year. If he shows something during the workouts then maybe a 2 way makes sense? He was the only guy in JT’s class that he (JT) felt was better than him. Maybe he can still be serviceable as a role player.

Also, JT personally lobbied both the league and the union to make guys like Giles eligible for a two-way.

https://clutchpoints.com/celtics-news-jayson-tatum-move-help-out-duke-teammate-new-cba

Giles better cheerlead as well as Thanasis.

Re: Free agency starts / reported signings (merged)
« Reply #793 on: July 09, 2023, 12:57:05 AM »

Offline goCeltics

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The panic about the 2nd apron is totally unwarranted especially on short term contracts as the draft pick consequences start next year.

I hope it's only the potential Lillard trade that is holding up the Celtics from adding some bench help on vet mins, can't see the Celtics using the tpe until later in the year maybe.

Re: Free agency starts / reported signings (merged)
« Reply #794 on: July 09, 2023, 06:55:33 AM »

Offline Birdman

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Wouldn’t mind seeing Giles in camp on non guaranteed deal & see what he got..plus it’s Tatum best bud isn’t it?
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
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PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin