Brown Needs To Go

[Muzzy66]

Not factoring in injuries and age, just making a list from the standpoint of players I rather have then Jaylen, I'm over 40 players and probably missing a couple guys. I understand if people are quick to say no to the Lavines, Middletons, etc but at the end of the day those guys simply don't make as many mistakes as JB does. He's so reckless and when you're throwing super max money at a guy you need to be over critical on that player.

Jayson Tatum
Mikal Bridges
Jalen Brunson
Joel Embiid
Pascal Siakam
Zach Lavine
Demar Derozan
Donovan Mitchell
Darius Garland
Tyrese Haliburton
Cade Cunningham (Potentially)
Giannis
Jrue Holiday
Khris Middelton
Trae Young
Melo Ball
Jimmy Butler
Paolo Banchero
Bradley Beal
Jokic
Jamal Murray
Anthony Edwards
Karl Anthony Towns (not a fan but better fit)
Josh Giddey
Shai Gilgeous Alexander
Damian Lillard
Steph Curry
Paul George
Kawhi Leonard
Lebron James
Anthony Davis
Devon Booker
Kevin Durant
Daaron Fox
Domantas Sabonis
Luka Doncic
Kyrie Irving
Ja Morant
Jaren Jackson Jr
Zion Williamson
Brandon Ingram
CJ McCollum
Victor Wembanya

I agree with you on about 85%-90% of that list to be honest. 

Exceptions for me would be guys like Kawhi/Zion/PG13 (who are far too injury prone to depend on), Morant (who is going the Gilbert Arenas route and may not be in the league much longer), and Wembanya/Banchero (who are too young and will probably have years of growing pains). 

I've actually gotten to the point where I would even begrudgingly consider the idea of taking Kyrie back.  He's a head case and a locker room cancer, but he's also a true PG who can handle the ball, is an excellent three point shooter, and generally peaking is deadly in the clutch.  He had issues playing with the young fellas back in the day but I think he'd be fine playing with Tatum now that he's developed in to a legitimate superstar.  I know how much people here hate Kyrie (and believe me, I feel the same way) and he's always a risky guy to bank on for various reasons (mental state, health, etc).  But...it just might work.  And if he did miss games you have that trio of Smart/Brogdon/White as backups.   Brown would be a great fit with Doncic in Dallas too.

[Who]

Just watching an old Patrick Ewing game. He caught the ball out at the three point line the corner and decided to drive on his man (slow footed Kevin Duckworth) and dribbled the ball off his leg.

Amazing how similar Ewing looked to Jaylen Brown on that play.

Clunky. That is the word. Clunky driving the ball.

[Muzzy66]

Who is the playoff league leader in turnovers?

Jaylen Brown!

66 turnovers in 20 games.

Hahaha, follow up:

(1) Jaylen Brown = 66 turnovers
(2) Jayson Tatum = 56 turnovers

Our two Jays leading all players in the playoffs in turnovers

(5) Marcus Smart = 45 turnovers

A 3rd player in the top five! Celtics owning this category.

Nikola Jokic and Bam Adebayo were 3rd and 4th with 53 and 50 turnovers respectively. The next DEN and MIA players to show up on the list are Jimmy at #9 and J Murray at #14. Again, we have 3 players in the top 5. Philly's duo of Embiid and Harden were #10 and #11. LeBron #7 and AD #12. Durant #8 and Booker #15. Again, our two stars were #1 and #2.

Lowry and D Russell were #16 and #17 to make a trio. Our 3rd guy was Smart at #5.

3 guys in the top 5 in turnovers!

Not at all surprised, as I've seen Tatum, Brown and Smart all put up games with 5+ turnovers during the playoffs. 

This is one of the two reasons why I truly believe Tatum and Brown can't win a title together.  You can't win a title when you have two of the highest turnover guys in the league.  You can't win a title when you have two of the most streak shooters in the league

With both Tatum and Brown you just do not know from one game to the next if you're going to get:
- 0 turnovers or 6
- 60% shooting or 30%
- 40 points or 12

Most of the time one will play poorly, the other will play well, and you will get by ok.  Every few games both will play well and you destroy the opponent.  Then every few games both play badly and the opponent destroys you.  It's pretty much a dice roll on any given night, and you can do pretty well in the regular seaosn like that...but you can't win a title that way.

[Celtics4ever]

Just watching an old Patrick Ewing game. He caught the ball out at the three point line the corner and decided to drive on his man (slow footed Kevin Duckworth) and dribbled the ball off his leg.

Amazing how similar Ewing looked to Jaylen Brown on that play.

Clunky. That is the word. Clunky driving the ball.

Ewing was a center and played in an era, when big man did not have as much perimeter skills.  Brown is a SF and SG in a modern era where these skills are a a premium.   Big difference.

[Who]

Just watching an old Patrick Ewing game. He caught the ball out at the three point line the corner and decided to drive on his man (slow footed Kevin Duckworth) and dribbled the ball off his leg.

Amazing how similar Ewing looked to Jaylen Brown on that play.

Clunky. That is the word. Clunky driving the ball.

Ewing was a center and played in an era, when big man did not have as much perimeter skills.  Brown is a SF and SG in a modern era where these skills are a a premium.   Big difference.

Yep. It's embarrassing.

[Birdman]

Brown not going anywhere unless he ask for a trade

[boscel33]

Read a few stories coming out of ATL and listening to my family in GA, JB is their #1 target this off season.

One proposal I found was:

Boston In:  Collins, Griffin, Johnson, two 1st's
ATL In:  JB

An alternative had Bey in for Griffin.

I liked Bey in 2020, thought the C's might go with him over Nesmith, but they didn't.  IMO, Collins would make RWill expendable and would be an upgrade.  Johnson and Griffin, I'll admit, really don't know a lot about them. 

That all said, not sure.  If I were to think on it, I'd probably lean Collins, Griffin, Johnson and the 1st's because.  Getting Bey and Johnson I think are getting essentially the same players, while I think getting Griffin and Johnson gives the C's a SG and a SF.

Adding Collins to the mix improves the big scoring over RWill, including from the outside.

[Birdman]

Celtics wouldn’t do that trade, plus Atlanta be probably favs in the East if that happen with Capela, Brown, Murray, Young, Double O…

[Who]

Read a few stories coming out of ATL and listening to my family in GA, JB is their #1 target this off season.

One proposal I found was:

Boston In:  Collins, Griffin, Johnson, two 1st's
ATL In:  JB

An alternative had Bey in for Griffin.

I liked Bey in 2020, thought the C's might go with him over Nesmith, but they didn't.  IMO, Collins would make RWill expendable and would be an upgrade.  Johnson and Griffin, I'll admit, really don't know a lot about them. 

That all said, not sure.  If I were to think on it, I'd probably lean Collins, Griffin, Johnson and the 1st's because.  Getting Bey and Johnson I think are getting essentially the same players, while I think getting Griffin and Johnson gives the C's a SG and a SF.

Adding Collins to the mix improves the big scoring over RWill, including from the outside.

My 1st reaction was "who the heck are Johnson and Griffin?" My 2nd reaction was "should I know who these guys are?"

Then looking up the Hawks roster to find out who they are. Can you tell me more about them? What do you like about them? How good do you think they are? Do you see them as good bench pieces or long term starters down the road?

I clearly know very little about them.

[Who]

Celtics wouldn’t do that trade, plus Atlanta be probably favs in the East if that happen with Capela, Brown, Murray, Young, Double O…

I don't see it. Mid-seed playoff team at best. Maybe not even that. One and done in the playoffs. Perhaps a lucky first round matchup before getting spanked in the 2nd round.

Still have the duplication / diminished returns problem in the backcourt. Still have D Murray stealing shots from guys who are better scorers than him. Jaylen scores a lot but only with average efficiency. He isn't elevating that offense much. Their defense won't pickup much either.

J Collins leaves a hole at PF. D Hunter hasn't played well there. Probably Jaylen as their best option at PF. Very small team 1 through 4. Capela aging at center. Unable to cope with ATL's lack of size.

Just don't see that as an impressive team. Some impressive individual talents but not an impressive team. They don't work well together. They don't make each other better or bring the best out of one another.

[Birdman]

What anyone think of Brown to Atlanta for Collins, Double O & Bey?? Works in trade machine

Double O/ TimeLord
Collins/ Horford
Tatum/Gallinari/ Bey
Brogdon/White
Smart/Payton

[boscel33]

Read a few stories coming out of ATL and listening to my family in GA, JB is their #1 target this off season.

One proposal I found was:

Boston In:  Collins, Griffin, Johnson, two 1st's
ATL In:  JB

An alternative had Bey in for Griffin.

I liked Bey in 2020, thought the C's might go with him over Nesmith, but they didn't.  IMO, Collins would make RWill expendable and would be an upgrade.  Johnson and Griffin, I'll admit, really don't know a lot about them. 

That all said, not sure.  If I were to think on it, I'd probably lean Collins, Griffin, Johnson and the 1st's because.  Getting Bey and Johnson I think are getting essentially the same players, while I think getting Griffin and Johnson gives the C's a SG and a SF.

Adding Collins to the mix improves the big scoring over RWill, including from the outside.

My 1st reaction was "who the heck are Johnson and Griffin?" My 2nd reaction was "should I know who these guys are?"

Then looking up the Hawks roster to find out who they are. Can you tell me more about them? What do you like about them? How good do you think they are? Do you see them as good bench pieces or long term starters down the road?

I clearly know very little about them.

Sorry, I can't.  I made sure to state that in my OP.  #imclueless

Also, not saying I'd do the deal, just saying there is a lot of chatter around ATL and those were two deals I saw.

[Phantom255x]

Read a few stories coming out of ATL and listening to my family in GA, JB is their #1 target this off season.

One proposal I found was:

Boston In:  Collins, Griffin, Johnson, two 1st's
ATL In:  JB

An alternative had Bey in for Griffin.

I liked Bey in 2020, thought the C's might go with him over Nesmith, but they didn't.  IMO, Collins would make RWill expendable and would be an upgrade.  Johnson and Griffin, I'll admit, really don't know a lot about them. 

That all said, not sure.  If I were to think on it, I'd probably lean Collins, Griffin, Johnson and the 1st's because.  Getting Bey and Johnson I think are getting essentially the same players, while I think getting Griffin and Johnson gives the C's a SG and a SF.

Adding Collins to the mix improves the big scoring over RWill, including from the outside.

If that's what we're trading JB for then I'm jumping out the window lol

[A Future of Stevens]

I would love to know historically what 26 year old athletic wings coming of their first 2nd team all nba, who have gotten better every year get in return for a trade. I would imagine there aren't many examples as that isn't really the profile of someone teams look to move.

[Who]

What anyone think of Brown to Atlanta for Collins, Double O & Bey?? Works in trade machine

Double O/ TimeLord
Collins/ Horford
Tatum/Gallinari/ Bey
Brogdon/White
Smart/Payton

I am suspicious of Okongwu. The team didn't perform well with him as a starter. He started a decent number of games too at 17. And he couldn't beat out Capela who has declined considerably since his peak. Capela does not cover ground defensively as well as he used to. And yet Okongwu with all his great advanced stats cannot beat Capela out for the starting spot + when Okongwu did get his chance, the team struggled.

Is he starting material? Or is he just a quality backup center? Is that the right role for him? A 20mpg bench big man.