Fire Joe! ... or critique Joe ... or defend Joe... or worry about Joe's coaching

[green_bballers13]

Ive said it once and ill continue to say it again, Joe Schmoe is in waaaay over his head. Hes completely clueless out there and cant make any adjustments. How many times is he gonna sit on his hands and watch a 22 point lead shrink to 4 in 5 minutes and not call any time outs so the guys can "figure it out on their own". Theyve never figured it out on their own and probably never will.

Or when he does like last night and sits on a timeout at end of regulation instead of setting up a play. These guys go completely awol in final shot situations and have been for a long time now. I cant even remember the last time we made a basket in the final 10 seconds of a game.

The fact that he hasnt learned by now is alarming. I honestly have no idea how he even landed the job, he has zero qualifications

Amazing that this team that can't figure it out and a clueless coach somehow managed to make it to 20 wins and 6 losses. They must have been playing hacks or fluking it and will be found out in the playoffs...in fact I wouldn't be surprised if they lost the remaining 80% of their remaining games and finished below .500, that would be in keeping with the bunch of useless no hopers they are 

They have a great record because of the amazing talent on the roster. But sometimes talent needs guidance especially during the intense moments of a close game. Joe Schmoe provides no guidance to these guys, and theyve proven time and time again that they revert back to their bad habits when the going gets tough. We need a coach who will light into their behinds when they play like knuckleheads (something Ime did) not sit there hoping they dig themselves out of a hole. You Mazulla apologists amaze me, its not like people are making this stuff up..

I’m sure you know that the vast majority of coaching happens at times you don’t see, and in ways you can’t know. Record is an imperfect measure, but it’s not a bad one. The Cs have the best record with team newly constructed and a tough schedule relative to other teams.  3 of their losses were in OT on the road. 14-0 at home compared to last year when home court wasn’t always a great advantage.  I hate the overuse of threes and I agree that the Cs go to sleep - launch threes and give up leads. But they’ve had a number of games this year that they’ve responded and pulled out wins that would have been losses in the 2nd half of last season. It may be that Joe isn’t the right guy - I’m leaning that way too, but I’m nowhere near as certain as you are about him. And I do trust that Brad is more cued into Joe as a coach than you or I - and if he’s a fan, I’m open to believing.

I think this is the key. I trust Brad's basketball eyes more than my own. At the end of the day, I pay to watch basketball and these guys get paid.

[ozgod]

I missed the game, the Wifi on Delta didn't let me stream it on my flight to LA so I don't know how he did, but I guess Joe survives another night without being terminated for incompetence?

[Yuckabuck33]

I missed the game, the Wifi on Delta didn't let me stream it on my flight to LA so I don't know how he did, but I guess Joe survives another night without being terminated for incompetence?

It depends on if there's video of Sam Casell leading all the huddles or not. (Didn't that happen to K.C. Jones?)

[ozgod]

Off with his head…?

[Yuckabuck33]

Joe has kinda won me over. I don't think he's great but I don't think he's the hindrance that he was last year. He can keep his job. For now, lol.

[green_bballers13]

I know that sports often have a raw edge to them. That being said, isn't it bad karma to propose that someone should be fired, especially if its not related to performance, as the Celtics are winning 80% of their games?

I just wonder if we took this same strategy in other parts of our lives. Bad meal- fire the waiter, the cook, and the owner. Bad presentation- fire the young associate!

Am I the only one that is put off by people so willing to fire/cancel other people? Seems like a Karen request to me.

The requests to fire Joe come down to unchecked anxiety. "Yes, he's winning a lot now, but I think he will lose in the playoffs." This is merely fear that is not tethered to the reality before our eyes.

[SHAQATTACK]

Off with his head…?

Tar and Feather first








Then …the guillotine 

[Donoghus]

It's fruitless for now.

Unless they go on some ridiculous, totally unexpected 15 game losing streak or something, he's not getting fired until the offseason.

And that's only if they flame out early in the playoffs. 

[Roy H.]

I know that sports often have a raw edge to them. That being said, isn't it bad karma to propose that someone should be fired, especially if its not related to performance, as the Celtics are winning 80% of their games?

I just wonder if we took this same strategy in other parts of our lives. Bad meal- fire the waiter, the cook, and the owner. Bad presentation- fire the young associate!

Am I the only one that is put off by people so willing to fire/cancel other people? Seems like a Karen request to me.

He won't be fired during the season, because the team has played well during the regular season.  Teams generally don't fire guys during the season unless they feel they have to, Cleveland Cavaliers aside.

That said, people who are bad at their job should be fired, especially when you're talking about one of the top-30 positions in the field.  If a chef drops the ball and a restaurant loses a Michelin star or two?  Fire him, please.  Same thing with Joe:  he should have been fired, demoted or reassigned after last year's playoffs, when he was an abject failure.  The NBA isn't the place for on the job training.

Instead of constantly trying to shame other people (it doesn't work), why not articulate what you think Joe does well, particularly as compared to other NBA-level coaches?

Were you pleased with his performance in last year's playoffs?  Do you think he'll be better in this season's playoffs?  If so, what are you basing that upon?

How many wins do you think this team would have with an average college coach?  How many of the team's wins do you attribute to Joe and something good that he has done?

[Big333223]

I know that sports often have a raw edge to them. That being said, isn't it bad karma to propose that someone should be fired, especially if its not related to performance, as the Celtics are winning 80% of their games?

I just wonder if we took this same strategy in other parts of our lives. Bad meal- fire the waiter, the cook, and the owner. Bad presentation- fire the young associate!

Am I the only one that is put off by people so willing to fire/cancel other people? Seems like a Karen request to me.

He won't be fired during the season, because the team has played well during the regular season.  Teams generally don't fire guys during the season unless they feel they have to, Cleveland Cavaliers aside.

That said, people who are bad at their job should be fired, especially when you're talking about one of the top-30 positions in the field.  If a chef drops the ball and a restaurant loses a Michelin star or two?  Fire him, please.  Same thing with Joe:  he should have been fired, demoted or reassigned after last year's playoffs, when he was an abject failure.  The NBA isn't the place for on the job training.

Instead of constantly trying to shame other people (it doesn't work), why not articulate what you think Joe does well, particularly as compared to other NBA-level coaches?

Were you pleased with his performance in last year's playoffs?  Do you think he'll be better in this season's playoffs?  If so, what are you basing that upon?

How many wins do you think this team would have with an average college coach?  How many of the team's wins do you attribute to Joe and something good that he has done?

What evidence is there that Joe is bad at his job?

What would you expect the team's record to be with a better coach?

[green_bballers13]

I know that sports often have a raw edge to them. That being said, isn't it bad karma to propose that someone should be fired, especially if its not related to performance, as the Celtics are winning 80% of their games?

I just wonder if we took this same strategy in other parts of our lives. Bad meal- fire the waiter, the cook, and the owner. Bad presentation- fire the young associate!

Am I the only one that is put off by people so willing to fire/cancel other people? Seems like a Karen request to me.

He won't be fired during the season, because the team has played well during the regular season.  Teams generally don't fire guys during the season unless they feel they have to, Cleveland Cavaliers aside.

That said, people who are bad at their job should be fired, especially when you're talking about one of the top-30 positions in the field.  If a chef drops the ball and a restaurant loses a Michelin star or two?  Fire him, please.  Same thing with Joe:  he should have been fired, demoted or reassigned after last year's playoffs, when he was an abject failure.  The NBA isn't the place for on the job training.

Instead of constantly trying to shame other people (it doesn't work), why not articulate what you think Joe does well, particularly as compared to other NBA-level coaches?

Were you pleased with his performance in last year's playoffs?  Do you think he'll be better in this season's playoffs?  If so, what are you basing that upon?

How many wins do you think this team would have with an average college coach?  How many of the team's wins do you attribute to Joe and something good that he has done?

I think he was pretty good for a rookie coach. I do think it mattered that they didn't get swept by the Heat. I don't place all of the blame on Joe- I think the players are also responsible.

Ryen Russillo made the point that most fans (and I'd include him) don't have the ability to accurately critique NBA head coaching. Most of what happens doesn't come to light, and we are left to judge results. Discussing things like timeouts and # of threes is evidence of this inability to articulate incompetence. 

Much like the Brady/Belichick talks, it's hard to guess how many wins one person delivers. I think it's a foolish exercise. Both the players (execution) and coaches (strategy) are responsible for results. An attempt to single out and blame is reductionist and incomplete.

I adopt a growth mindset in my own life and assume that people are putting in effort. Therefore, I think that a second year coach will be better than a first year coach. Maybe he's not the most qualified coach, but that doesn't mean he can't get the job done. Plenty of people were criticizing Spo, even as he won with Miami and Lebron.

Regarding shame- I'm just calling out the arrogance. Young Joe knows more about technical basketball than anyone on this forum. I haven't read anything technical on this thread, despite numerous discussions of timeouts and 3 pointers taken.

I'm not saying Joe is flawless or above criticism. I'm saying that forum readers deserve better insight into how this guy is a bad coach. So far, I haven't seen it. Probably because it's hard for fans to criticize something that is so clearly over their head.

[Roy H.]

coach. Maybe he's not the most qualified coach, but that doesn't mean he can't get the job done

By your own admission, then, the team is handicapping their title chances.  "Might be able to get the job done" isn't the standard many fans want.

I don't think that's an arrogant take.

[green_bballers13]

coach. Maybe he's not the most qualified coach, but that doesn't mean he can't get the job done

By your own admission, then, the team is handicapping their title chances.  "Might be able to get the job done" isn't the standard many fans want.

I don't think that's an arrogant take.

I'm not sure why Brad and Mike Zarren liked Joe so much. I assume they spent time with him, liked his vision, and agreed with his plan to execute that vision. Similarly to Riley handing over the keys to Spo.
Spo was also heavily criticized by non-NBA people, until he delivered results and then was considered to be a prodigy.

In a world where overreactions are bountiful, the Fire Joe thread hitting almost 100 pages after winning 80% of games is laughable.

Re: arrogance- it's arrogant to think that we (casual fans typing on a blog) know more about X's and O's than Joe Muzzulla, Ime, or Spo.

[Atzar]

I think he was pretty good for a rookie coach. I do think it mattered that they didn't get swept by the Heat. I don't place all of the blame on Joe- I think the players are also responsible.

Ryen Russillo made the point that most fans (and I'd include him) don't have the ability to accurately critique NBA head coaching. Most of what happens doesn't come to light, and we are left to judge results. Discussing things like timeouts and # of threes is evidence of this inability to articulate incompetence. 

Much like the Brady/Belichick talks, it's hard to guess how many wins one person delivers. I think it's a foolish exercise. Both the players (execution) and coaches (strategy) are responsible for results. An attempt to single out and blame is reductionist and incomplete.

I adopt a growth mindset in my own life and assume that people are putting in effort. Therefore, I think that a second year coach will be better than a first year coach. Maybe he's not the most qualified coach, but that doesn't mean he can't get the job done. Plenty of people were criticizing Spo, even as he won with Miami and Lebron.

Regarding shame- I'm just calling out the arrogance. Young Joe knows more about technical basketball than anyone on this forum. I haven't read anything technical on this thread, despite numerous discussions of timeouts and 3 pointers taken.

I'm not saying Joe is flawless or above criticism. I'm saying that forum readers deserve better insight into how this guy is a bad coach. So far, I haven't seen it. Probably because it's hard for fans to criticize something that is so clearly over their head.

The bolded is a big reason why I backed off tbh. 

The closest you'll get to a technical discussion on this board is the occasional complaint that we run drop too much when an opposing guard gets hot coming off of screens.  But you aren't going to find film breakdown here.  We're not talking about scheme (green light to launch threes aside, which itself is an oversimplification) or better/worse alternatives much.  When people want one guy to shoot more or another less, they rarely have a strong schematic idea of how to make that happen. 

Not an insult to the board.  Film study takes a lot of time and knowledge, and those who possess the ability to do so probably have better things to do than winning arguments on the internet.  But it does speak to our collective ability to evaluate coaching success/failure. 

[Yuckabuck33]

I know that sports often have a raw edge to them. That being said, isn't it bad karma to propose that someone should be fired, especially if its not related to performance, as the Celtics are winning 80% of their games?

I just wonder if we took this same strategy in other parts of our lives. Bad meal- fire the waiter, the cook, and the owner. Bad presentation- fire the young associate!

Am I the only one that is put off by people so willing to fire/cancel other people? Seems like a Karen request to me.

He won't be fired during the season, because the team has played well during the regular season.  Teams generally don't fire guys during the season unless they feel they have to, Cleveland Cavaliers aside.

That said, people who are bad at their job should be fired, especially when you're talking about one of the top-30 positions in the field.  If a chef drops the ball and a restaurant loses a Michelin star or two?  Fire him, please.  Same thing with Joe:  he should have been fired, demoted or reassigned after last year's playoffs, when he was an abject failure.  The NBA isn't the place for on the job training.

Instead of constantly trying to shame other people (it doesn't work), why not articulate what you think Joe does well, particularly as compared to other NBA-level coaches?

Were you pleased with his performance in last year's playoffs?  Do you think he'll be better in this season's playoffs?  If so, what are you basing that upon?

How many wins do you think this team would have with an average college coach?  How many of the team's wins do you attribute to Joe and something good that he has done?

What evidence is there that Joe is bad at his job?

What would you expect the team's record to be with a better coach?

1 out of 1 in NBA Championship rounds last year.