Author Topic: Fire Joe! ... or critique Joe ... or defend Joe... or worry about Joe's coaching  (Read 781832 times)

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Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #1020 on: May 29, 2023, 11:58:58 PM »

Offline Boston Garden Leprechaun

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LET'S GO CELTICS!

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #1021 on: May 29, 2023, 11:59:16 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Al just abominable all night, yet he got 34 minutes to Timelord's 14 minutes.

And that's all on Joe's fascination with the three ball offense and refusal to play Timelord big minutes because he provides less spacing.

For the love of God, just move on from this guy.

Muscala could have helped this series. Hauser too.

Instead he kept those two on the bench but still gave PP some minutes when he’s not a good matchup against Miami.
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #1022 on: May 30, 2023, 12:03:50 AM »

Offline Boston Garden Leprechaun

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Al just abominable all night, yet he got 34 minutes to Timelord's 14 minutes.

And that's all on Joe's fascination with the three ball offense and refusal to play Timelord big minutes because he provides less spacing.

For the love of God, just move on from this guy.

Muscala could have helped this series. Hauser too.

Instead he kept those two on the bench but still gave PP some minutes when he’s not a good matchup against Miami.

people rotted on the bench

so much for upgrading

so many players need to be shipped out

ciach and GM fired

screw u wyc u clown
LET'S GO CELTICS!

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #1023 on: May 30, 2023, 12:04:07 AM »

Offline Goldstar88

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Al just abominable all night, yet he got 34 minutes to Timelord's 14 minutes.

And that's all on Joe's fascination with the three ball offense and refusal to play Timelord big minutes because he provides less spacing.

For the love of God, just move on from this guy.

I don’t like the 3 ball either, but you do realize that this is how Brad wants the team to play, right?
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #1024 on: May 30, 2023, 12:04:47 AM »

Offline goCeltics

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Said it before can not win a chip with Maz, blind monkeys could see this.

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #1025 on: May 30, 2023, 12:06:10 AM »

Offline goCeltics

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Is there one player he developed all year, feels like everyone took a step back except White who had been traded in mid-year the previous season.

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #1026 on: May 30, 2023, 12:09:59 AM »

Offline Boston Garden Leprechaun

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Al just abominable all night, yet he got 34 minutes to Timelord's 14 minutes.

And that's all on Joe's fascination with the three ball offense and refusal to play Timelord big minutes because he provides less spacing.

For the love of God, just move on from this guy.

I don’t like the 3 ball either, but you do realize that this is how Brad wants the team to play, right?

fire that clown also screw brad

soft weak cuck
LET'S GO CELTICS!

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #1027 on: May 30, 2023, 12:15:11 AM »

Offline goCeltics

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Vogel would be much better, but politics will not allow it, it's happening in America more and more.

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #1028 on: May 30, 2023, 12:17:05 AM »

Offline Boston Garden Leprechaun

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Vogel would be much better, but politics will not allow it, it's happening in America more and more.

so all we can have is a diversity hire merits be [dang]ed??
LET'S GO CELTICS!

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #1029 on: May 30, 2023, 12:36:58 AM »

Offline jpotter33

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Al just abominable all night, yet he got 34 minutes to Timelord's 14 minutes.

And that's all on Joe's fascination with the three ball offense and refusal to play Timelord big minutes because he provides less spacing.

For the love of God, just move on from this guy.

I don’t like the 3 ball either, but you do realize that this is how Brad wants the team to play, right?

Brad and Ime were both 3-pointer oriented, but Joe is the clear culprit that took it to the unjustifiable level. We were 2nd in the league in attempts this year, where we were 9th, 10th, 12th, 7th, and 9th the previous 5 years.
Recovering Joe Skeptic, but inching towards a relapse.

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Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #1030 on: May 30, 2023, 02:47:17 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Joe only has one word answer.

physicality
poise

etc.

Probably what he says in time outs. It's not his fault he was thrust into that position but if you can't do the job you gotta go.
He really thinks he's Pop / Belichick
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #1031 on: May 30, 2023, 02:48:48 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Al just abominable all night, yet he got 34 minutes to Timelord's 14 minutes.

And that's all on Joe's fascination with the three ball offense and refusal to play Timelord big minutes because he provides less spacing.

For the love of God, just move on from this guy.

I don’t like the 3 ball either, but you do realize that this is how Brad wants the team to play, right?
Then why did we attempt significantly fewer under both Brad and Ime?
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #1032 on: May 30, 2023, 02:55:15 AM »

Offline blink

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Al just abominable all night, yet he got 34 minutes to Timelord's 14 minutes.

And that's all on Joe's fascination with the three ball offense and refusal to play Timelord big minutes because he provides less spacing.

For the love of God, just move on from this guy.

I don’t like the 3 ball either, but you do realize that this is how Brad wants the team to play, right?

Brad and Ime were both 3-pointer oriented, but Joe is the clear culprit that took it to the unjustifiable level. We were 2nd in the league in attempts this year, where we were 9th, 10th, 12th, 7th, and 9th the previous 5 years.

We it seemed like a bunch of things happening simultaneously. 
1) we started out red hot in the first couple months of the season, we shot the 3 so well, coaches thought that it was sustainable (plot twist - it wasn't) 
2) we lost our way defensively through part of the year, and never got back to playing great def - which you HAVE to do if you are living /and dying by the 3.
3) we had a rookie coach who was over his head and really didn't learn to make adjustments at all the whole year.


Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #1033 on: May 30, 2023, 05:45:43 AM »

Offline ozgod

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Al just abominable all night, yet he got 34 minutes to Timelord's 14 minutes.

And that's all on Joe's fascination with the three ball offense and refusal to play Timelord big minutes because he provides less spacing.

For the love of God, just move on from this guy.

I don’t like the 3 ball either, but you do realize that this is how Brad wants the team to play, right?

Brad and Ime were both 3-pointer oriented, but Joe is the clear culprit that took it to the unjustifiable level. We were 2nd in the league in attempts this year, where we were 9th, 10th, 12th, 7th, and 9th the previous 5 years.

It's ironic that it was Miami that won the 3 point shooting game against us - in their wins they shot over 50% from 3. Then in 2 of the 3 games they lost they still shot effectively 40% from 3 (39% and 45%). In their Game 2 win they shot 35% and it was only in Game 4 where they shot 25%.

What's interesting is they basically shot 87-204 which was 42% vs us who shot 81-267 which was 30%. So they only really shot 6 more 3s than we did the whole series, which works out to be 1 more than us a game (they shot an average of 12-29 a game vs us 11-38). Looking at the table I put together below, 3s made up 46% of our total shot attempts in the series, vs 34% for them. Nearly half our our total shot attempts in the series were 3s vs a third for them, and we shot 30% vs 50% for them. We shot 60% from 3 for the series but didn't attempt as much of those shots. That's a recipe for a loss in anyone's book.

NBA.com hasn't yet come up with the total shot types for each team for the series, but I'd be curious to know how much of Miami's 2pt shots came out of the midrange, vs at the rim, and what was out of transition due to our missed 3s.

Code: [Select]

R FGM FGA FG% 2FGM 2FGA 2FG% 3FGM 3FGA 3FG% oFGM oFGA oFG% o2FGM o2FGA o2FG% o3FGM o3FGA o3FG%
G1 L 42 81 0.519 32 52 0.615 10 29 0.345 46 85 0.541 32 55 0.582 14 30 0.516
G2 L 37 79 0.468 27 44 0.614 10 35 0.286 42 92 0.457 33 66 0.500 9 26 0.346
G3 L 39 98 0.398 28 56 0.500 11 42 0.262 46 81 0.568 27 46 0.587 19 35 0.543
G4 W 43 84 0.512 25 39 0.641 18 45 0.4 34 78 0.436 26 46 0.565 8 32 0.25
G5 W 40 79 0.506 24 40 0.600 16 39 0.41 40 78 0.513 31 55 0.564 9 23 0.391
G6 W 34 78 0.436 27 43 0.628 7 35 0.2 33 93 0.355 19 63 0.302 14 30 0.457
G7 L 32 82 0.39 23 40 0.575 9 42 0.214 42 86 0.488 28 58 0.483 14 28 0.5

Total 267 581 0.460 186 314 0.592 81 267 0.303 283 593 0.477 196 389 0.504 87 204 0.426
Avg/Game 38.1 83.0 26.6 44.9 11.6 38.1 40.4 84.7 28.0 55.6 12.4 29.1

I don't have a problem per se with shooting 3s if they are the right shot and that are in the flow of the offense. Looking at our losses where we've shot 25% or less some are open shots, which suggest our players aren't as good at 3s as they think they are (because you should be making open 3s if that's what your offense is predicated on), but others are just shots they took because they ran out of ideas and when the lead started to swell they tried to hit home runs instead of singles, which is a discipline thing.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D


Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #1034 on: May 30, 2023, 05:58:45 AM »

Offline Kernewek

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Al just abominable all night, yet he got 34 minutes to Timelord's 14 minutes.

And that's all on Joe's fascination with the three ball offense and refusal to play Timelord big minutes because he provides less spacing.

For the love of God, just move on from this guy.

I don’t like the 3 ball either, but you do realize that this is how Brad wants the team to play, right?
Then why did we attempt significantly fewer under both Brad and Ime?
You know, I wonder about this. At first I thought it might be a pace thing - as in people evaluating raw numbers without taking into account shot opportunities - but since 2018, more or less, we've actually played slower and slower, per B/R, and we were squarely in the middle of the pack when it came to shots per game.

But - and this is also important for the discussion - last year, under Udoka, we shot 37.1 threes per game at a 35.5% clip (approximately 39.5ppg of our offense). This season we shot 42.1 at a 37.7% clip, good for sixth in the league and 47.6ppg of our offense.

So Mazza's offense definitely had us shooting more threes, but we also made more threes. food for thought.
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