Fire Joe! ... or critique Joe ... or defend Joe... or worry about Joe's coaching

[angryguy77]

Agree on 2 points with Goldstar88.

(1) The competition is greater now than last year. This Philly team is better than last year's Bucks who were without Khris Middleton. Philly are also way better than the Heat in the ECF.

(2) Last year's squad messed around in the playoffs and lost silly games just like this year's team have. This is a continuation of the same problem we had under Ime Udoka.

That Bucks series never should have gone 7 games. They were without Middleton and not as good as Boston. But even worse was that Miami series. That should have been over in 4 or 5 games but Boston's lack of professionalism and killer instinct allowed Miami to hang around until game 7 and even almost steal it right at the death.

This messing around with Atlanta in the first round and Philly here in the 2nd round is a continuation of the same problems we had under Udoka.

yes but(I'm a broken record) Ime's style helped make up for the shortcomings of this team.

We will never know this, but it's possible in year 2 Ime gets them to buy into being more professional. Out of Brad, Ime and Joe, Ime is the one who got the most out them as a team. It not unreasonable to think there would've been improvements in other areas.

[Goldstar88]

Brad Stevens to double up as coach and GM?

NO ….he is not a strong voice , he is too soft and a yes man

Ime was supposedly a strong voice last year and the C’s scraped to get by the Bucks (without Middleton) in 7. Scraped to get by the Heat in 7. Udoka was severely out coached by Spolestra that whole series. It was a miracle that the C’s even made it to the Finals. Came down to Jimmy Butler hitting the front rim on a buzzer beater 3pt shot that would have ended the season for Boston. Then the Celtics totally collapsed in the Finals. Only won two games and were eliminated at home.

This is such revisionist history BS.

Ime wasn’t perfect, but he was far and away more experienced and competent than Joe. He absolutely had full control of the locker room, and he had his guys playing the right way with energy and focus every single night. We just were simply not talented enough offensively.

This year, we are supremely more talented with Brogdon and then another year of development from the Jays and White actually feeling comfortable, but Joe does not hold these guys accountable and we regularly come out with these lackluster efforts. And that’s not even considering the complete reversal of our identity abd gameplan from last year that looks like it’s going to cost us a title.

This revisionist history non-sense trying to equivocate last year to this year is just more Joe apologism. No basis in reality, particularly when we played substantially tougher competition that you’re for some reason trying to downplay.

Which part was revisionist? All of that happened last year. Also, if you think Ime had full control of the locker room all the time and kept the guys focused every night… You must have missed a good portion of last season.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

Is Joe Mazzulla’s job at risk with Celtics on brink of collapse? | Vautour - masslive.com



https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2023/05/is-joe-mazzullas-job-at-risk-with-celtics-on-brink-of-collapse-vautour.html

buh bye joe schmoe

[Who]

Is Joe Mazzulla’s job at risk with Celtics on brink of collapse? | Vautour - masslive.com



https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2023/05/is-joe-mazzullas-job-at-risk-with-celtics-on-brink-of-collapse-vautour.html

buh bye joe schmoe

It is good to see their is some external pressure (not just fans) on Mazzula's job security.

Hopefully PBS will do the right thing and fire his butt in the summer.

[Roy H.]

Is Joe Mazzulla’s job at risk with Celtics on brink of collapse? | Vautour - masslive.com



https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2023/05/is-joe-mazzullas-job-at-risk-with-celtics-on-brink-of-collapse-vautour.html

buh bye joe schmoe

It is good to see their is some external pressure (not just fans) on Mazzula's job security.

Hopefully PBS will do the right thing and fire his butt in the summer.

Interestingly the article brought up Wyc's potential loss of revenue if we fall short of the ECF.  That alone may justify bringing in a new coach.

[GetLucky]

Agree on 2 points with Goldstar88.

(1) The competition is greater now than last year. This Philly team is better than last year's Bucks who were without Khris Middleton. Philly are also way better than the Heat in the ECF.

(2) Last year's squad messed around in the playoffs and lost silly games just like this year's team have. This is a continuation of the same problem we had under Ime Udoka.

That Bucks series never should have gone 7 games. They were without Middleton and not as good as Boston. But even worse was that Miami series. That should have been over in 4 or 5 games but Boston's lack of professionalism and killer instinct allowed Miami to hang around until game 7 and even almost steal it right at the death.

This messing around with Atlanta in the first round and Philly here in the 2nd round is a continuation of the same problems we had under Udoka.

yes but(I'm a broken record) Ime's style helped make up for the shortcomings of this team.

We will never know this, but it's possible in year 2 Ime gets them to buy into being more professional. Out of Brad, Ime and Joe, Ime is the one who got the most out them as a team. It not unreasonable to think there would've been improvements in other areas.

At this time last year, Ime was at the exact same point as Joe is right now, down 3-2 in the second round after an embarrassing loss at home in game 5. Let's see how Game 6 goes.

[ozgod]

Personally I would be amazed if they fire him. Doesn't strike me as Brad's style at all. I don't think they're championship or bust when it comes to Joe (unlike us). Given the circumstances of his hiring and where he delivered the Celtics his first year, it would be very out of character for Brad to fire him on that basis. The only circumstance that I could see them firing him is if they decided he's not going to improve going forward and/or that he's lost the locker room and/or he committed some violation of team rules.

So we're probably stuck with Joe for at least another year, maybe two. Hopefully he'll be better next year than he was this year, learn from some of the mistakes. Maybe they should parade some hotties around him and hope he pulls an Ime so they can flick him on that basis 

[j804]

Brad Stevens to double up as coach and GM?

NO ….he is not a strong voice , he is too soft and a yes man

Ime was supposedly a strong voice last year and the C’s scraped to get by the Bucks (without Middleton) in 7. Scraped to get by the Heat in 7. Udoka was severely out coached by Spolestra that whole series. It was a miracle that the C’s even made it to the Finals. Came down to Jimmy Butler hitting the front rim on a buzzer beater 3pt shot that would have ended the season for Boston. Then the Celtics totally collapsed in the Finals. Only won two games and were eliminated at home.

This is such revisionist history BS.

Ime wasn’t perfect, but he was far and away more experienced and competent than Joe. He absolutely had full control of the locker room, and he had his guys playing the right way with energy and focus every single night. We just were simply not talented enough offensively.

This year, we are supremely more talented with Brogdon and then another year of development from the Jays and White actually feeling comfortable, but Joe does not hold these guys accountable and we regularly come out with these lackluster efforts. And that’s not even considering the complete reversal of our identity abd gameplan from last year that looks like it’s going to cost us a title.

This revisionist history non-sense trying to equivocate last year to this year is just more Joe apologism. No basis in reality, particularly when we played substantially tougher competition that you’re for some reason trying to downplay.

The bolded is equally revisionist. The Fire Ime thread and general tenor of the blog for the first half of last season prove that. The reality is that fans will find things to complain about when their team loses. It's normal.

That's the thing, though:  Ime built the team into a cohesive unit.  It took time, and strength, but it worked.  Ime couldn't solve all of the team's bad habits, particularly turnovers, but he had the team playing at an extremely high level for several months.  The team got better as the season went along, and it was really only Timelord's injury (and turnovers) that held it back.

With Joe, it's the opposite.  He took an elite team that added Brogdon and currently has a healthy Timelord, and he made it worse.  And the team hasn't gotten better as the season progressed, it's become worse and less reliable.

Are you impressed by what you see from Joe?

Amen. I haven’t posted here in a long time but Joe doesn’t have a handle of this locker room despite what Smart or anybody says. He doesn’t make adjustments he’s not preaching defense and guys aren’t behind held accountable. Hes a worse version of Dantoni and that’s being nice to him.

He’s gotta go even if we scrape by out of this round. Our record over the year has been in spite of him. This roster is stacked we’ve been the healthiest team of this entire playoffs and we’ve been subpar. Brads been amazing as a GM but he messed up big time by giving Joe a contract midseason without seeing how this thing played out. He’s not gonna have the balls to can him either. I could already hear Brad “I’ve been in his shoes, it’s his first year he needs time and a proper staff” blah blah blah. Hopefully he does the right thing.

[SparzWizard]

Agree on 2 points with Goldstar88.

(1) The competition is greater now than last year. This Philly team is better than last year's Bucks who were without Khris Middleton. Philly are also way better than the Heat in the ECF.

(2) Last year's squad messed around in the playoffs and lost silly games just like this year's team have. This is a continuation of the same problem we had under Ime Udoka.

That Bucks series never should have gone 7 games. They were without Middleton and not as good as Boston. But even worse was that Miami series. That should have been over in 4 or 5 games but Boston's lack of professionalism and killer instinct allowed Miami to hang around until game 7 and even almost steal it right at the death.

This messing around with Atlanta in the first round and Philly here in the 2nd round is a continuation of the same problems we had under Udoka.

yes but(I'm a broken record) Ime's style helped make up for the shortcomings of this team.

We will never know this, but it's possible in year 2 Ime gets them to buy into being more professional. Out of Brad, Ime and Joe, Ime is the one who got the most out them as a team. It not unreasonable to think there would've been improvements in other areas.

Ime holds guys accountable. Joe? He don't even care. Well, you're the coach. You need to care and do something and do it right! His post game press comments makes us wonder if this guy even know how to coach

[celticinorlando]

Unfortunately this ownership and GM will make excuses for Joe and this disastrous playoffs

[Goldstar88]

Brad Stevens to double up as coach and GM?

NO ….he is not a strong voice , he is too soft and a yes man

Ime was supposedly a strong voice last year and the C’s scraped to get by the Bucks (without Middleton) in 7. Scraped to get by the Heat in 7. Udoka was severely out coached by Spolestra that whole series. It was a miracle that the C’s even made it to the Finals. Came down to Jimmy Butler hitting the front rim on a buzzer beater 3pt shot that would have ended the season for Boston. Then the Celtics totally collapsed in the Finals. Only won two games and were eliminated at home.

Sounds better than losing in the second round (with a team that added the 6MOY).  Ime was also dealing with a severely hobbled Timelord.

How many games did we lose in last year's playoffs based upon Ime's actions or inactions?

Several. He was not very good in the postseason. Again, C’s were extremely fortunate to make the Finals last year. It was not at all smooth sailing after the first round.

[jpotter33]

Good Bill Simmons and KOC podcast talking about some of the coaching staff’s failings: https://www.theringer.com/the-bill-simmons-podcast/2023/5/10/23718139/celtics-rock-bottom-76ers-joel-embiid-golden-state-warriors-crossroads.

Feels like it’s just been a perfect storm for our coaching woes. Between promoting an unqualified assistant to the significant brain drain, this has been a major failing by Brad and ownership to not surround an inexperienced coach with the help he needs, and we’re clearly paying for it now by (gulp) getting out coached by Doc Stinking Rivers.

[Dchuck]

Good Bill Simmons and KOC podcast talking about some of the coaching staff’s failings: https://www.theringer.com/the-bill-simmons-podcast/2023/5/10/23718139/celtics-rock-bottom-76ers-joel-embiid-golden-state-warriors-crossroads.

Feels like it’s just been a perfect storm for our coaching woes. Between promoting an unqualified assistant to the significant brain drain, this has been a major failing by Brad and ownership to not surround an inexperienced coach with the help he needs, and we’re clearly paying for it now by (gulp) getting out coached by Doc Stinking Rivers.

Speaking of a perfect storm of coaching woes, how about the timing last summer?  We let Will Hardy walk a few weeks (possibly days?) before the C's get info about Ime.  If Brad finds out sooner, then Hardy is probably our coach. 

[jpotter33]

Brad Stevens to double up as coach and GM?

NO ….he is not a strong voice , he is too soft and a yes man

Ime was supposedly a strong voice last year and the C’s scraped to get by the Bucks (without Middleton) in 7. Scraped to get by the Heat in 7. Udoka was severely out coached by Spolestra that whole series. It was a miracle that the C’s even made it to the Finals. Came down to Jimmy Butler hitting the front rim on a buzzer beater 3pt shot that would have ended the season for Boston. Then the Celtics totally collapsed in the Finals. Only won two games and were eliminated at home.

This is such revisionist history BS.

Ime wasn’t perfect, but he was far and away more experienced and competent than Joe. He absolutely had full control of the locker room, and he had his guys playing the right way with energy and focus every single night. We just were simply not talented enough offensively.

This year, we are supremely more talented with Brogdon and then another year of development from the Jays and White actually feeling comfortable, but Joe does not hold these guys accountable and we regularly come out with these lackluster efforts. And that’s not even considering the complete reversal of our identity abd gameplan from last year that looks like it’s going to cost us a title.

This revisionist history non-sense trying to equivocate last year to this year is just more Joe apologism. No basis in reality, particularly when we played substantially tougher competition that you’re for some reason trying to downplay.

Which part was revisionist? All of that happened last year. Also, if you think Ime had full control of the locker room all the time and kept the guys focused every night… You must have missed a good portion of last season.

1) Significantly downplaying our competition last year. Milwaukee and Philly are about similar matchups in my mind even without Middleton given how we have historically dominated and matched up well with Philly. Miami and GS from last year are a clear step above the rest of the teams given both their overall skill and how we have a less favorable matchup against both teams, and the Brooklyn was light years ahead of Atlanta as a first round opponent.

2) He absolutely had full control of the locker room last year, at least from about the New Year when he finally broke through to the guys. They consistently played hard and with intensity, particularly defensively, and they regularly destroyed lesser opponents. There was no playing down to opponents or inconsistent effort like we’ve seen all this year due to a lack of discipline and accountability. They lost games mainly due to a lack of talent and injuries; hell, with White not fully comfortable or integrated they played the entire playoffs without a true point guard, which really killed then with turnovers.

Ime was surely not perfect, particularly offensively, but to claim we’re seeing the same thing as last year is just being willfully ignorant. Ime is a vastly more experienced and competent coach at this stage than Joe, and there’s a reason virtually every media outlet has now picked up on this given how obvious it’s been in the playoffs.

[jpotter33]

Brad Stevens to double up as coach and GM?

NO ….he is not a strong voice , he is too soft and a yes man

Ime was supposedly a strong voice last year and the C’s scraped to get by the Bucks (without Middleton) in 7. Scraped to get by the Heat in 7. Udoka was severely out coached by Spolestra that whole series. It was a miracle that the C’s even made it to the Finals. Came down to Jimmy Butler hitting the front rim on a buzzer beater 3pt shot that would have ended the season for Boston. Then the Celtics totally collapsed in the Finals. Only won two games and were eliminated at home.

This is such revisionist history BS.

Ime wasn’t perfect, but he was far and away more experienced and competent than Joe. He absolutely had full control of the locker room, and he had his guys playing the right way with energy and focus every single night. We just were simply not talented enough offensively.

This year, we are supremely more talented with Brogdon and then another year of development from the Jays and White actually feeling comfortable, but Joe does not hold these guys accountable and we regularly come out with these lackluster efforts. And that’s not even considering the complete reversal of our identity abd gameplan from last year that looks like it’s going to cost us a title.

This revisionist history non-sense trying to equivocate last year to this year is just more Joe apologism. No basis in reality, particularly when we played substantially tougher competition that you’re for some reason trying to downplay.

The bolded is equally revisionist. The Fire Ime thread and general tenor of the blog for the first half of last season prove that. The reality is that fans will find things to complain about when their team loses. It's normal.

That's the thing, though:  Ime built the team into a cohesive unit.  It took time, and strength, but it worked.  Ime couldn't solve all of the team's bad habits, particularly turnovers, but he had the team playing at an extremely high level for several months.  The team got better as the season went along, and it was really only Timelord's injury (and turnovers) that held it back.

With Joe, it's the opposite.  He took an elite team that added Brogdon and currently has a healthy Timelord, and he made it worse.  And the team hasn't gotten better as the season progressed, it's become worse and less reliable.

Are you impressed by what you see from Joe?

Amen. I haven’t posted here in a long time but Joe doesn’t have a handle of this locker room despite what Smart or anybody says. He doesn’t make adjustments he’s not preaching defense and guys aren’t behind held accountable. Hes a worse version of Dantoni and that’s being nice to him.

He’s gotta go even if we scrape by out of this round. Our record over the year has been in spite of him. This roster is stacked we’ve been the healthiest team of this entire playoffs and we’ve been subpar. Brads been amazing as a GM but he messed up big time by giving Joe a contract midseason without seeing how this thing played out. He’s not gonna have the balls to can him either. I could already hear Brad “I’ve been in his shoes, it’s his first year he needs time and a proper staff” blah blah blah. Hopefully he does the right thing.

Difference is Brad was three times as experienced as Joe eveb in his first year and had basic game management skills. Joe looks completely lost at most points in games, especially when there’s aren’t falling.

I think people really underestimate how little coaching experience Joe had coming in.