Fire Joe! ... or critique Joe ... or defend Joe... or worry about Joe's coaching

[Roy H.]

Yes the philosophy sucks, but they should never execute that poorly.

I think this answers the "coach versus players" conundrum so many have.  Like many things, people like to pick sides in a debate, when really, it's both.

[Kernewek]

Joe has undone all the things Ime did for the defense. They literally don’t even try at that end. Shooting 50 3s a game and hoping they go in is not an offensive scheme.

Took a good chance to win a title and messed it up. Thanks to Brad, Wyc and company also. A panic fire and a panic hire.

Think the bolded has more to do with RW3 and Horford's aging than the coaching change.

This is a nice piece on the offense, even if it's a bit puffy (and a week old):
https://theathletic.com/4468910/2023/05/03/boston-celtics-jayson-tatum-jaylen-brown-offense/


Which has this great pull quote for this thread, bolded emphasis mine: (I enjoy the logic but Mazza, you have to do better):

Just the way that they’re able to adapt to the game,” Smart said. “It’s tough when you’ve got a specific agenda that you’re supposed to do. If you’re a scorer, you’re supposed to score the ball. But what happens when every other team knows you’re trying to score the ball? Can you adapt? Can you still do things to win the game even if you’re not scoring? And that has shown.”

Mazzulla said Brown and Tatum used to know exactly where their shots would come from and how they would produce those looks.

“But I think a part of the development of really good players is that defenses are gonna take all of that away,” said Mazzulla. “That’s actually a compliment. That’s how good you’ve gotten is they’re going to take that away. Now what? So you have to be able to manipulate the environment, you have to be able to then create one on your own.”

That reality led to the latest step in Boston’s evolution.

“Now, if you don’t have a play,” said Mazzulla, “how are they going to guard you?”

[LatterDayCelticsfan]

Brad Stevens to double up as coach and GM?

[angryguy77]

Brad Stevens to double up as coach and GM?

It would be more of the same. Brad sucked as well.

[johnnygreen]

To blame this on Mazzula is ridiculous. The guy became the head coach (for the first time) with something like 2 weeks before the season started. If anything, I blame ownership for suspending/firing Ime. If what Ime did was so bad, why weren't the police involved (at least I don't recall any). I'm not sure if the fragile players on this team ever recovered from Ime being let go.

[jpotter33]

Copied from another forum site...Does anyone know if this is true?  Did Joe say that?


"Reporter ‘was the drop and leaving Embiid open for FT jumpers a part of the scheme?’

Joe ‘our offense created that, we didnt get into transition and missed open shots and that puts pressure on your half court defense’

Yes. I saw his post game interview. Unbelievable.

He can't actually be serious, saying that. Can he?

Wow

Would love to say this is unbelievable, but it’s completely in line with Joe’s whack philosophy and totally warped basketball mindset.

It’s no different than after game one when we short a record-breaking fg% due to our shot selection and lost due to our atrocious defensive effort, and Joe’s main takeaway was that we didn’t shoot enough threes. 

[Roy H.]

Which has this great pull quote for this thread, bolded emphasis mine: (I enjoy the logic but Mazza, you have to do better):

Just the way that they’re able to adapt to the game,” Smart said. “It’s tough when you’ve got a specific agenda that you’re supposed to do. If you’re a scorer, you’re supposed to score the ball. But what happens when every other team knows you’re trying to score the ball? Can you adapt? Can you still do things to win the game even if you’re not scoring? And that has shown.”

Mazzulla said Brown and Tatum used to know exactly where their shots would come from and how they would produce those looks.

“But I think a part of the development of really good players is that defenses are gonna take all of that away,” said Mazzulla. “That’s actually a compliment. That’s how good you’ve gotten is they’re going to take that away. Now what? So you have to be able to manipulate the environment, you have to be able to then create one on your own.”

That reality led to the latest step in Boston’s evolution.

“Now, if you don’t have a play,” said Mazzulla, “how are they going to guard you?”

Joe would make an amazing football coach.  "Why draw up plays?  Just have the wideouts get open and have the QB throw it to the open guy."

[Roy H.]

To blame this on Mazzula is ridiculous. The guy became the head coach (for the first time) with something like 2 weeks before the season started. If anything, I blame ownership for suspending/firing Ime. If what Ime did was so bad, why weren't the police involved (at least I don't recall any). I'm not sure if the fragile players on this team ever recovered from Ime being let go.

I mean, I guess it's not his fault that he was given a position that he's no qualified for, so you don't "blame" him for being in this situation.  But, when looking at the weaknesses of the team, it's fair to "blame" the lack of a quality coach.

[angryguy77]

To blame this on Mazzula is ridiculous. The guy became the head coach (for the first time) with something like 2 weeks before the season started. If anything, I blame ownership for suspending/firing Ime. If what Ime did was so bad, why weren't the police involved (at least I don't recall any). I'm not sure if the fragile players on this team ever recovered from Ime being let go.

Who decided to deemphasize the strength(Defense) and focus on the 3 ball because analytics told him to?
You're right that ownership and Brad are to blame for putting him in charge to begin with, but Joe blew up what was working. He was given the keys to a lambo and drove it into the wall.

[celticinorlando]

--I agree the players were not and still are not happy that Ime was let go. That seems to be a thorn in the side of this team. Not sure why the Celtics panicked and were so drastic about something the NBA wasn't and isn't concerned about. The fact no one knows the real truth just shields Brad and Wyc from having to explain themselves.

--I do believe that Joe knows he is underwater and not ready for this. I do not think he has any confidence in himself at this point. His offense is predicated on making volume 3s. If you do not, you are not winning. I am not sure what the plan on defense is. It is just invisible.

--I share blame with Wyc and Brad for not replacing vacant coaching positions with actual coaches, one being a vet coach that could help Joe. Someone like Frank Vogel who could lend a lot of experience.

--I blame Brad for not addressing another legit big (Kornet was a wasted spot) and bringing in a wing at the trade deadline that could be played in the playoffs. It is obvious that no one trusts Hauser and Boston needs some wing production off the bench.


Just a cluster from the get go.

[angryguy77]

Which has this great pull quote for this thread, bolded emphasis mine: (I enjoy the logic but Mazza, you have to do better):

Just the way that they’re able to adapt to the game,” Smart said. “It’s tough when you’ve got a specific agenda that you’re supposed to do. If you’re a scorer, you’re supposed to score the ball. But what happens when every other team knows you’re trying to score the ball? Can you adapt? Can you still do things to win the game even if you’re not scoring? And that has shown.”

Mazzulla said Brown and Tatum used to know exactly where their shots would come from and how they would produce those looks.

“But I think a part of the development of really good players is that defenses are gonna take all of that away,” said Mazzulla. “That’s actually a compliment. That’s how good you’ve gotten is they’re going to take that away. Now what? So you have to be able to manipulate the environment, you have to be able to then create one on your own.”

That reality led to the latest step in Boston’s evolution.

“Now, if you don’t have a play,” said Mazzulla, “how are they going to guard you?”

Joe would make an amazing football coach.  "Why draw up plays?  Just have the wideouts get open and have the QB throw it to the open guy."

If Joe were a football coach

[SHAQATTACK]

Bottom line
To save the team
Joe needs to Go 


Stupid ownership, some of which allowed one or two others to destroy the Celtics coaching staff and then maybe mess up Joe Mazz by tossing him in way too early .  Those butt hurt owner need to leave and go away and sulk and destroy something else.

[SHAQATTACK]

Brad Stevens to double up as coach and GM?

NO ….he is not a strong voice , he is too soft and a yes man

[SparzWizard]

Which has this great pull quote for this thread, bolded emphasis mine: (I enjoy the logic but Mazza, you have to do better):

Just the way that they’re able to adapt to the game,” Smart said. “It’s tough when you’ve got a specific agenda that you’re supposed to do. If you’re a scorer, you’re supposed to score the ball. But what happens when every other team knows you’re trying to score the ball? Can you adapt? Can you still do things to win the game even if you’re not scoring? And that has shown.”

Mazzulla said Brown and Tatum used to know exactly where their shots would come from and how they would produce those looks.

“But I think a part of the development of really good players is that defenses are gonna take all of that away,” said Mazzulla. “That’s actually a compliment. That’s how good you’ve gotten is they’re going to take that away. Now what? So you have to be able to manipulate the environment, you have to be able to then create one on your own.”

That reality led to the latest step in Boston’s evolution.

“Now, if you don’t have a play,” said Mazzulla, “how are they going to guard you?”

Joe would make an amazing football coach.  "Why draw up plays?  Just have the wideouts get open and have the QB throw it to the open guy."

If Joe were a football coach

He'd also tell Jacobi Meyers to throw lateral passes in a tie game with 8 seconds left and let the defensive team intercept it for a return TD.

[Goldstar88]

Brad Stevens to double up as coach and GM?

NO ….he is not a strong voice , he is too soft and a yes man

Ime was supposedly a strong voice last year and the C’s scraped to get by the Bucks (without Middleton) in 7. Scraped to get by the Heat in 7. Udoka was severely out coached by Spolestra that whole series. It was a miracle that the C’s even made it to the Finals. Came down to Jimmy Butler hitting the front rim on a buzzer beater 3pt shot that would have ended the season for Boston. Then the Celtics totally collapsed in the Finals. Only won two games and were eliminated at home.