When will JB be appreciated?

[GreenEnvy]

I know I’m in the minority and it’s especially hard to say with how well they are playing, but I still worry about him as the #2.

This season his defense has been pretty bad, especially one on one. And I can’t shake the Miami series when they literally stripped him every time he took a dribble.

[jmen788]

I don’t want to talk about TMZ/Twitter BS. Purely basketball- what does Brown have to do to garner respect from Celtics fans on the court? In my eyes, he’s already earned my respect.

He's a really good basketball player and I respect his game (although I don't like the dude outside of that). I think if he puts up 20ppg another couple years and cuts out the knucklehead turnovers, even the haters will have no crutch to stand on.

[GreenlyGreeny]

JB is a great player, but he is far from a great fit with JT given what the metrics show happens when JB sits and JT plays (and some of us are sick of reading about this debate of which is better—clearly the answer is JT and this was settled 1-2 years ago…just because someone likes JB more than JT, clearly they should not delude themselves into thinking JB is better than JT…I like JT better than MJ, but I’m not going to run around saying they’re comparable and suggesting maybe JT is better than MJ, ya know? That would be 🍌

Perhaps more importantly, there is a significant risk of JB NOT re-signing in the 2024 off-season (you know, like his buddy Kyrie did to us in 2019…you remember that, right? Except if it happens again, there is no cap room/path to replacing all-star JB with another all-star like we did in the Kyrie/Kemba situation…). Quite concerning is JB’s recent gaffes with regards to Kyrie and Kanye, which illustrate far from ideal judgment. It certainly does not inspire confidence in JB making the right move by re-signing with us…

All of the above is not intended to show disrespect to JB. Like I said, he’s a great player. But all of the above is why I think it may be prudent to find a way to move JB for a member of the NBA 75 team (or another all-NBAer) who is under contract through 2025 or later. Especially if they would fit better with JT and Co. and therefore make the team even better than it was before trading JB. For example, a healthy KD or healthy AD fits better with JT than JB does, particularly now that we have Brogdon/White at the 2 and would no longer need to worry about Horford by having KD or AD at the 4 with Timelord at the 5. That’s not to disrespect JB—it’s just saying he’s not quite untouchable like JT if, for example, an NBA 75er became available at the right price. The Slim Reaper and The Brow are NBA 75 Team members who will be NBA 100 Team members in 2046. Given technological/medical advancements, the two may have 4-6 elite years left. JB will almost surely not be an NBA 100 member. It’s not disrespectful to state the obvious and suggest trading a great player for an all-time great player?

That said, if JB re-signs with or without a NTC, obviously we can rest easy knowing we are set with a relatively young, growing, great player in JB, particularly if the re-signing is followed by a five year super-max for JT.

What everybody wants is many titles, not just a title (although we’ll take a title, 1980s and 1960s were a lot better than 2008-2011). If it happens with JT/JB, wonderful and I’ll be the first to admit I was wrong for ever doubting JB’s judgment/desire to re-sign. But I certainly am not disrespecting JB by suggesting we could perhaps increase the odds of winning many titles by trading JB now. It’s a logical position given the facts at hand, particularly the recent Kyrie/Kanye nonsense…and yes, I will still beat this drum, perhaps even harder, if we win the 2023 NBA Finals because at this point after the past month of Kyrie/Kanye nonsense—frankly, I’m 99.9% convinced that JB is going to follow Kyrie’s lead if we give JB the opportunity to do so…yes, I would even trade JB for Buddy/Collins if that was the best trade opportunity out there (but I would not deal JB for less than an all-time great until after this season is over for us, of course).

[Jvalin]

I don’t want to talk about TMZ/Twitter BS. Purely basketball- what does Brown have to do to garner respect from Celtics fans on the court? In my eyes, he’s already earned my respect.

Play more team-oriented basketball instead of caring primarily about his own shots.

Tatum is a shot creator. He can create shots either for himself or for his teammates. Brown is a scorer. He leaves a lot to be desired as a facilitator. His one-dimentional offensive game prevents him from becoming the #1 option.

[GreenlyGreeny]

I don’t want to talk about TMZ/Twitter BS. Purely basketball- what does Brown have to do to garner respect from Celtics fans on the court? In my eyes, he’s already earned my respect.

Play more team-oriented basketball instead of caring primarily about his own shots.

Tatum is a shot creator. He can create shots either for himself or for his teammates. Brown is a scorer. He leaves a lot to be desired as a facilitator. His one-dimentional offensive game prevents him from becoming the #1 option.

Well said. One could even argue that JT has kind of followed LeBron’s model of prioritize-facilitating-above-all-else, whereas JB has kind of followed Kyrie’s model of prioritize-scoring-above-all-else. Keep in mind that LeBron/Kyrie won a title together the year after losing the title, which may very well be what we get this year, but that’s a far cry from the MJ/Scottie duo (multiple titles achieved by both leaders prioritizing facilitation first) we have been hoping and dreaming of…

In other words, JT should continue to try to be like MJ/LeBron, and JB ought to start being more like Scottie rather than Kyrie…after all, Kyrie is not even on the NBA 75 Team, but MJ/Scottie are NBA 50ers, 75ers and will be 100ers…

[Sophomore]

I don’t want to talk about TMZ/Twitter BS. Purely basketball- what does Brown have to do to garner respect from Celtics fans on the court? In my eyes, he’s already earned my respect.

Play more team-oriented basketball instead of caring primarily about his own shots.

Tatum is a shot creator. He can create shots either for himself or for his teammates. Brown is a scorer. He leaves a lot to be desired as a facilitator. His one-dimentional offensive game prevents him from becoming the #1 option.

Tatum is averaging 4.6 assists a game. Brown is averaging 3.4. Yes, Tatum is a better facilitator, but it’s hardly night and day.

Also, Tatum takes more shots. 20.9 a game to Brown’s 19.5.

Brown is no gunner. He’s a very efficient scorer - 60% TS% with 30% usage - mostly taking shots within the flow of the game that the  team needs him to take.

[Celtics2021]

From an article I read about the Celtics offense:

Brown is one of nine players in the NBA averaging at least 26 points per game on 50-percent field goal shooting or better. The others are Curry, Doncic, Antetokounmpo, Embiid, Kevin Durant, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Anthony Davis and DeMar DeRozan.

Brown is a high-volume, high-efficiency scorer, and one of the best in the league at it.  Some people in this thread must still think we’ve got 2018-2019 Brown on this team.  He’s an explosive finisher and his mid-range game has been lethal this year.

[cman88]

We saw what brown could do when Tatum was out and he put up 36 points. He's a great player. It's just Tatum is better so people don't give him credit.

But make no mistake. We need him.

[Sophomore]

From an article I read about the Celtics offense:

Brown is one of nine players in the NBA averaging at least 26 points per game on 50-percent field goal shooting or better. The others are Curry, Doncic, Antetokounmpo, Embiid, Kevin Durant, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Anthony Davis and DeMar DeRozan.

Brown is a high-volume, high-efficiency scorer, and one of the best in the league at it.  Some people in this thread must still think we’ve got 2018-2019 Brown on this team.  He’s an explosive finisher and his mid-range game has been lethal this year.

Exactly. Embrace it, folks. We have two all-NBA caliber wings, both 2-way players, still not at their peak. Most other teams and their fan bases dream about this.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

I don’t want to talk about TMZ/Twitter BS. Purely basketball- what does Brown have to do to garner respect from Celtics fans on the court? In my eyes, he’s already earned my respect.

Play more team-oriented basketball instead of caring primarily about his own shots.

Tatum is a shot creator. He can create shots either for himself or for his teammates. Brown is a scorer. He leaves a lot to be desired as a facilitator. His one-dimentional offensive game prevents him from becoming the #1 option.

This is what I mean. You’re making things up like his “one dimensional offensive game”. He can drive and he can shoot.

Or that MJ was a facilitator before scorer. Everyone knew that Michael wanted his 30ppg.

Why create stuff, instead of merely stating that you don’t care for the player and would prefer Buddy Hield?

[Roy H.]

I don’t want to talk about TMZ/Twitter BS. Purely basketball- what does Brown have to do to garner respect from Celtics fans on the court? In my eyes, he’s already earned my respect.

Play more team-oriented basketball instead of caring primarily about his own shots.

Tatum is a shot creator. He can create shots either for himself or for his teammates. Brown is a scorer. He leaves a lot to be desired as a facilitator. His one-dimentional offensive game prevents him from becoming the #1 option.

This is what I mean. You’re making things up like his “one dimensional offensive game”. He can drive and he can shoot.

Or that MJ was a facilitator before scorer. Everyone knew that Michael wanted his 30ppg.

Why create stuff, instead of merely stating that you don’t care for the player and would prefer Buddy Hield?

I agree that Jvalin is overstating his case.  His offensive game isn't really one-dimensional.  He can score at every level, and he's competent at just about everything you ask of a SF who is playing SG.

"He leaves a lot to be desired as a facilitator" is a fair statement, though.  He averages too many turnovers and too few assists to be even average as a facilitator.  Maybe that impacts him if he was in a different offense, or if he was required to be a true #1.  Lucky for us, he isn't.  He just has to fit in the Celtics offense, which he does very well.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

Why do people feel the need to “overstate their case” (make stuff up)? Jaylen was awesome last year, but some choose to remember turnovers? A poster wants to trade him for Hield? What is going on here? It doesn’t make sense to me.

[jambr380]

Me critiquing the fit of Brown and Tatum is not disrespect or not appreciating Brown.  Brown is a great player.  Will and should be an all star and if he continues like he has, will and should make his first All NBA Team.  But it also goes without saying he is not as good or as important as Tatum and he never will be.

Brown is 8-9 in the playoffs w/o Tatum.
Tatum is 1-4  in the playoffs w/o Brown.

We don't get there if Tatum doesn't play good to great.
I'm not sure we get there even then, unless JB is goof to great.

If you believe JB makes us a little bit better, that's the difference.

Tatum -MVP
Brown - Finals MVP
Banner 18

This post leaves out a lot of context in regards to records. You are including JB's rookie year when the team was built around IT and Horford and the team went to the ECF. JB was a minor part of that team to say the least.

Tatum's record w/o Brown is the complete opposite. Brown has been a major piece on this Celtics team ever since Tatum has been here. Brown missing time in the playoffs is a big deal. It also coincided with the somewhat disastrous 2020-21 season where Brown missed the whole playoffs. That entire 1-4 record is the 2021 1st round.

[jambr380]

Hopefully he’ll be selected to an all-NBA team this year and we’ll be good.

This brings up an interesting question. If Jaylen does slip on to the 3rd Team, do we offer him a full supermax extension? Does he accept something a little less (like a regular max extension)? I guess we will know for sure if he intends on staying with the team beyond 2024 if he does make All-NBA, but a supermax is a LOT of money. And we will definitely be paying Tatum the same a year after that.

[Moranis]

Why do people feel the need to “overstate their case” (make stuff up)? Jaylen was awesome last year, but some choose to remember turnovers? A poster wants to trade him for Hield? What is going on here? It doesn’t make sense to me.

that is nonsense and you know it.  don't you do yourself any favors when you do things like that.