Celtics Undervaluing Grant?

[nickagneta]

The topic of Ben simmons has been up for debate in the around the nba thread and I wondered if people would rather have Ben Simmons or grant Williams right now.

Kinda falls into the category of: "If you're going to get into a fight, who do you want having your back?" I would take Grant 10 times out of 10.

Give me the guy with the size of the fight in the dog over the size of the dog in the fight every day. If you know what I mean.

[moiso]

bball-ref has some weird nicknames for C's players.

Tatum - J, Taco Jay
Smart - Cobra, Wolverine
Brown - JB, Old Man
Grant - The General, Batman
Rob - TimeLord, Boo Butt, Lob Williams
Al - Godfather
Brogdon - Humble Moses, The President, Uncle Malcolm, Mookie Dew
Gallinari - II Gallo, The Rooster
Pritchard - Fast PP
Kornet - The Green Kornet

The people who complain of the Timelord nickname can call him Boo Butt instead

[Roy H.]

bball-ref has some weird nicknames for C's players.

Tatum - J, Taco Jay
Smart - Cobra, Wolverine
Brown - JB, Old Man
Grant - The General, Batman
Rob - TimeLord, Boo Butt, Lob Williams
Al - Godfather
Brogdon - Humble Moses, The President, Uncle Malcolm, Mookie Dew
Gallinari - II Gallo, The Rooster
Pritchard - Fast PP
Kornet - The Green Kornet

The Green Kornet isn't weird, it's brilliant.  Haha.

[Goldstar88]

bball-ref has some weird nicknames for C's players.

Tatum - J, Taco Jay
Smart - Cobra, Wolverine
Brown - JB, Old Man
Grant - The General, Batman
Rob - TimeLord, Boo Butt, Lob Williams
Al - Godfather
Brogdon - Humble Moses, The President, Uncle Malcolm, Mookie Dew
Gallinari - II Gallo, The Rooster
Pritchard - Fast PP
Kornet - The Green Kornet

The Green Kornet isn't weird, it's brilliant.  Haha.

I like the Green Kornet and Timelord. All the other ones listed are pretty terrible.

[gouki88]

bball-ref has some weird nicknames for C's players.

Tatum - J, Taco Jay
Smart - Cobra, Wolverine
Brown - JB, Old Man
Grant - The General, Batman
Rob - TimeLord, Boo Butt, Lob Williams
Al - Godfather
Brogdon - Humble Moses, The President, Uncle Malcolm, Mookie Dew
Gallinari - II Gallo, The Rooster
Pritchard - Fast PP
Kornet - The Green Kornet

The Green Kornet isn't weird, it's brilliant.  Haha.

I like the Green Kornet and Timelord. All the other ones listed are pretty terrible.

Humble Moses is hilarious. Is the implication that the original Moses wasn't?

[moiso]

bball-ref has some weird nicknames for C's players.

Tatum - J, Taco Jay
Smart - Cobra, Wolverine
Brown - JB, Old Man
Grant - The General, Batman
Rob - TimeLord, Boo Butt, Lob Williams
Al - Godfather
Brogdon - Humble Moses, The President, Uncle Malcolm, Mookie Dew
Gallinari - II Gallo, The Rooster
Pritchard - Fast PP
Kornet - The Green Kornet

The Green Kornet isn't weird, it's brilliant.  Haha.

I like the Green Kornet and Timelord. All the other ones listed are pretty terrible.

I love Lob Williams too.

[tonydelk]

1.  What teams are projected to have cap room next year?;

2.  Who else is on the market?;

3.  Will teams be willing to potentially miss out on UFAs while their cap room is tied up in an offer sheet to Grant?

EDIT:  https://hoopshype.com/lists/who-are-the-cap-space-teams-for-2023/

That link answers some of those questions.  Most of the teams with cap space are a long way off from contending, but when teams miss out on their top options, who knows?  Some disappointed franchise might want to pay Grant $18 - $20 million to be a good 7th man.

These are always the questions that people don't think about but are really important. 

What team is actually going to pay Grant Williams more than the MLE?  Aside from the Celtics, I'm not sure there is one.

$18-20M for a 7th man? It’s possible, I guess, but paying that kind of money for a guy who doesn’t start is a way to pay a GSW-like tax bill. I think a team will have to look at Grant as a starter to pay that kind of money. The Cs’ sixth biggest salary is 16M, and they’re deep in the tax. Spot-checked other top east teams and none had more than 5 players with $18M salaries.  Philly, Mia, MW have 3, ATL BKL, CHI have 4.

If BOS does pay G-Will that type of money, I imagine it will be for G-Will to be Horford's long term replacement at PF.

If the C's 100% knew Grant would be Al's replacement they would have paid him 14m per year already. 

Hoops Hype has Grant as the 23rd best FA.  I think Grant's biggest Competition will be PJ Washington.  I love Grant and want him to stay.  It's not like the C's can sign any good FA's.  Without Al, With Gallo and with only Grants QO the C's salary is at almost 146m for next year.  The cap next year will be 134m and tax level 162m.  Grant will be the best player the C's can sign so not giving him 14m per year surprised me (if that's what he was actually asking for).  I'm sure the Rob contract had a lot to do with it.  who would you rather have Rob or Grant.  Maybe the team didn't want to p--- rob off giving Grant more but if they are forced to match then it's out of their hands.  They offered the same contract Rob got.  A lot of this is political as well.  If a team with cap space offers Grant 15m or above then I don't see the C's matching.  As much as I want Grant to stay and as hard as he's worked he's the type of player you can add through the draft if you actually have picks.  It will be an interesting offseason.

[Roy H.]

Hypothetical:

If you're a contender and need a PF, do you prefer Horford or Grant at $15 million+ per year?  Obviously, Horford would be a shorter contract, but for filling cap space in the short-term who does a team offer?

[Goldstar88]

Hypothetical:

If you're a contender and need a PF, do you prefer Horford or Grant at $15 million+ per year?  Obviously, Horford would be a shorter contract, but for filling cap space in the short-term who does a team offer?

I think Al is better in every category, minus 3pt shooting. Not that he’s a slouch at that either, shooting 44% on the season. Horford, no contest.

[footey]

Hypothetical:

If you're a contender and need a PF, do you prefer Horford or Grant at $15 million+ per year?  Obviously, Horford would be a shorter contract, but for filling cap space in the short-term who does a team offer?

Why can’t we keep both?

[Roy H.]

Hypothetical:

If you're a contender and need a PF, do you prefer Horford or Grant at $15 million+ per year?  Obviously, Horford would be a shorter contract, but for filling cap space in the short-term who does a team offer?

Why can’t we keep both?

I'm talking about other contenders that have cap space.

[nickagneta]

Hypothetical:

If you're a contender and need a PF, do you prefer Horford or Grant at $15 million+ per year?  Obviously, Horford would be a shorter contract, but for filling cap space in the short-term who does a team offer?

I'ld be quite happy to retain both in the $30-31 million area per year for the next few years. They currently make $30.8 million combined and if they stay in that ballpark, as the cap rises, it will keep the tax bill manageable.

Keeping both would also go a long way to maintaining team chemistry and continuity in the team core, a must have for teams that have dynasty aspirations.

[Moranis]

Hypothetical:

If you're a contender and need a PF, do you prefer Horford or Grant at $15 million+ per year?  Obviously, Horford would be a shorter contract, but for filling cap space in the short-term who does a team offer?

neither, though for a year, Horford would make most sense.

Also, what do people see Horford getting on his next contract?

[Roy H.]

Hypothetical:

If you're a contender and need a PF, do you prefer Horford or Grant at $15 million+ per year?  Obviously, Horford would be a shorter contract, but for filling cap space in the short-term who does a team offer?

neither, though for a year, Horford would make most sense.

Also, what do people see Horford getting on his next contract?

It's really hard to say.  The full MLE is around $11 million, right?  Do any contenders have more than that to offer?  Is Memphis still in a position to create space?

I'd say $11 million to $15 million.  I'd offer him 3 years, $36 million, with the final year partially guaranteed.

[Celtics2021]

Hypothetical:

If you're a contender and need a PF, do you prefer Horford or Grant at $15 million+ per year?  Obviously, Horford would be a shorter contract, but for filling cap space in the short-term who does a team offer?

neither, though for a year, Horford would make most sense.

Also, what do people see Horford getting on his next contract?

It's really hard to say.  The full MLE is around $11 million, right?  Do any contenders have more than that to offer?  Is Memphis still in a position to create space?

I'd say $11 million to $15 million.  I'd offer him 3 years, $36 million, with the final year partially guaranteed.

Over three years, the full MLE should come out a shade above $36 million.  Quite a few “contenders” are likely to have that at their disposal next summer.  Memphis might be able to go a bit over it.

As far as Grant is concerned, the team that worries me most is Sacramento.  They might have around $25 million in cap space next summer if they let Barnes walk.  Indiana is a bit of a risk as well.