NFL 2022 Season

[gouki88]

https://twitter.com/AndySlater/status/1579570264144506880?t=w6LpWZeAPOWn6vLnU321hg&s=19

No concussion symptoms yet he was removed from game and is still in the protocols.  The new protocols may have cost Miami a game and may affect a future game for a guy that is seemingly perfectly healthy.

I don’t give a [dang] if teams lose games as the result of the NFL finally taking something beyond token measures to address concussion

except he wasn't hit in the head, showed no symptoms of any kind, and doesn't have a concussion.

Not only irrelevant, but categorically false too.

Nothing I said is false.  He wasn't hit in the head, he has no concussion symptoms, and doesn't have a concussion.  Those are objective facts you can either see in the videos or based on every single diagnosis by the medical professionals that have actually examined him.

Your stubbornness is shameless. You said he "showed no symptoms of any kind". Which is wrong.

You can stamp your feet as much as you want about the ataxia diagnosis, but that is what occurred. You and your ridiculous hills to die on.

we were talking about concussions. He had no concussion symptoms. He had no neurological symptoms.  He did not hit his head.  He was diagnosed with an arm injury.  That matches exactly what you see in the video.  He fell hard on his arm.  Shook off the arm stinger and was able to go back in yet couldn't because someone watching on TV thought he hit his head.  It is utter nonsense.  This isn't Tua and shouldn't be treated anywhere near the same way.

Lol. If there was an award for being intentionally obtuse...

[sgrogan]

https://twitter.com/AndySlater/status/1579570264144506880?t=w6LpWZeAPOWn6vLnU321hg&s=19

No concussion symptoms yet he was removed from game and is still in the protocols.  The new protocols may have cost Miami a game and may affect a future game for a guy that is seemingly perfectly healthy.

I don’t give a [dang] if teams lose games as the result of the NFL finally taking something beyond token measures to address concussion

except he wasn't hit in the head, showed no symptoms of any kind, and doesn't have a concussion.

Not only irrelevant, but categorically false too.

Nothing I said is false.  He wasn't hit in the head, he has no concussion symptoms, and doesn't have a concussion.  Those are objective facts you can either see in the videos or based on every single diagnosis by the medical professionals that have actually examined him.

Your stubbornness is shameless. You said he "showed no symptoms of any kind". Which is wrong.

You can stamp your feet as much as you want about the ataxia diagnosis, but that is what occurred. You and your ridiculous hills to die on.

we were talking about concussions. He had no concussion symptoms. He had no neurological symptoms.  He did not hit his head.  He was diagnosed with an arm injury.  That matches exactly what you see in the video.  He fell hard on his arm.  Shook off the arm stinger and was able to go back in yet couldn't because someone watching on TV thought he hit his head.  It is utter nonsense.  This isn't Tua and shouldn't be treated anywhere near the same way.

Lol. If there was an award for being intentionally obtuse...

Its not obvious to me.
Maybe Bridgewater is being "brave" and needs to be saved from himself, maybe not.
https://www.totalprosports.com/2022/10/11/teddy-bridgewater-concussion-protocol/

[nickagneta]

Ataxia is definitely a symptom of a concussion. How can someone claim no concussion symptoms were found when impaired balance and coordination is definitely a symptom of a concussion.

And oh, BTW, you don't have to take a hit to the head to get a concussion, a severe shaking/movement of the head can cause it too. So just because a head doesn't touch the ground super hard, doesn't mean it rules out concussion.

If the new rules are such that if there's enough symptoms and evidence that if the diagnosis might be off, it's best that the player needs to sit the rest of the game, so be it.

I don't see that under new protocols that the NFL did anything wrong. Teams can overcome losing a QB for most of one game and still win titles. (Pats' won a title with Brady missing 4 games.) Better to err on the side of caution and not risk players with the highest pay and drawing power getting severely injured by having a Tua situation happen, if Tua was actually concussed during that Sunday game.

[sgrogan]

Ataxia is definitely a symptom of a concussion. How can someone claim no concussion symptoms were found when impaired balance and coordination is definitely a symptom of a concussion.

And oh, BTW, you don't have to take a hit to the head to get a concussion, a severe shaking/movement of the head can cause it too. So just because a head doesn't touch the ground super hard, doesn't mean it rules out concussion.

If the new rules are such that if there's enough symptoms and evidence that if the diagnosis might be off, it's best that the player needs to sit the rest of the game, so be it.

I don't see that under new protocols that the NFL did anything wrong. Teams can overcome losing a QB for most of one game and still win titles. (Pats' won a title with Brady missing 4 games.) Better to err on the side of caution and not risk players with the highest pay and drawing power getting severely injured by having a Tua situation happen, if Tua was actually concussed during that Sunday game.

I don't disagree, better safe than sorry.

[Moranis]

Ataxia is definitely a symptom of a concussion. How can someone claim no concussion symptoms were found when impaired balance and coordination is definitely a symptom of a concussion.

And oh, BTW, you don't have to take a hit to the head to get a concussion, a severe shaking/movement of the head can cause it too. So just because a head doesn't touch the ground super hard, doesn't mean it rules out concussion.

If the new rules are such that if there's enough symptoms and evidence that if the diagnosis might be off, it's best that the player needs to sit the rest of the game, so be it.

I don't see that under new protocols that the NFL did anything wrong. Teams can overcome losing a QB for most of one game and still win titles. (Pats' won a title with Brady missing 4 games.) Better to err on the side of caution and not risk players with the highest pay and drawing power getting severely injured by having a Tua situation happen, if Tua was actually concussed during that Sunday game.

He didn't have impaired balance or coordination.  He got up immediately and walked off the field without a stumble. 

Bridgewater was forced out of the game because a guy in a booth thought he stumbled.  He didn't stumble.  The guy in the booth did not physically examine him yet diagnosed him with ataxia.  Any sack of a QB where he takes a hard hit, could force the player out of the game if someone says he "stumbles" whether he does or not.   

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article267145716.html

Bridgewater was sidelined after just one offensive play because an independent certified athletic trainer (ATC) situated in an upstairs booth said he stumbled and showed signs of ataxia — abnormality of balance/stability, motor coordination or dysfunctional speech — a symptom that bars a player from returning to the game.

As Bridgewater headed to the sideline, he entered the blue medical tent. The Dolphins announced he had an elbow injury and was being evaluated for a head injury. A person with a red hat — which signals they are an unaffiliated neurotrauma consultant (UNC) assigned by the league and NFL Players Association to assist teams with the diagnosis of head injuries — entered the tent at one point. Bridgewater then exited the medical tent and headed to the locker room with the consultant. Several minutes later, Bridgewater was ruled out for the remainder of the game due to the ATC Booth Spotter saying they saw Bridgewater stumble. This kept him out even though he passed the concussion evaluation and wasn’t showing signs of a concussion.

So apparently players can be diagnosed from a mile away and without any discussion or examination of the player (by someone that isn't even a doctor).  Yeah, that isn't going to cause any problems at all.

[gouki88]

Ataxia is definitely a symptom of a concussion. How can someone claim no concussion symptoms were found when impaired balance and coordination is definitely a symptom of a concussion.

And oh, BTW, you don't have to take a hit to the head to get a concussion, a severe shaking/movement of the head can cause it too. So just because a head doesn't touch the ground super hard, doesn't mean it rules out concussion.

If the new rules are such that if there's enough symptoms and evidence that if the diagnosis might be off, it's best that the player needs to sit the rest of the game, so be it.

I don't see that under new protocols that the NFL did anything wrong. Teams can overcome losing a QB for most of one game and still win titles. (Pats' won a title with Brady missing 4 games.) Better to err on the side of caution and not risk players with the highest pay and drawing power getting severely injured by having a Tua situation happen, if Tua was actually concussed during that Sunday game.

He didn't have impaired balance or coordination.  He got up immediately and walked off the field without a stumble. 

Bridgewater was forced out of the game because a guy in a booth thought he stumbled.  He didn't stumble.  The guy in the booth did not physically examine him yet diagnosed him with ataxia.  Any sack of a QB where he takes a hard hit, could force the player out of the game if someone says he "stumbles" whether he does or not.   

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article267145716.html

Bridgewater was sidelined after just one offensive play because an independent certified athletic trainer (ATC) situated in an upstairs booth said he stumbled and showed signs of ataxia — abnormality of balance/stability, motor coordination or dysfunctional speech — a symptom that bars a player from returning to the game.

As Bridgewater headed to the sideline, he entered the blue medical tent. The Dolphins announced he had an elbow injury and was being evaluated for a head injury. A person with a red hat — which signals they are an unaffiliated neurotrauma consultant (UNC) assigned by the league and NFL Players Association to assist teams with the diagnosis of head injuries — entered the tent at one point. Bridgewater then exited the medical tent and headed to the locker room with the consultant. Several minutes later, Bridgewater was ruled out for the remainder of the game due to the ATC Booth Spotter saying they saw Bridgewater stumble. This kept him out even though he passed the concussion evaluation and wasn’t showing signs of a concussion.

So apparently players can be diagnosed from a mile away and without any discussion or examination of the player (by someone that isn't even a doctor).  Yeah, that isn't going to cause any problems at all.

What are you even whinging about? That the NFL has become too cautious about serious head trauma? Really?

Go watch some boxing then.

[celticsclay]

Ataxia is definitely a symptom of a concussion. How can someone claim no concussion symptoms were found when impaired balance and coordination is definitely a symptom of a concussion.

And oh, BTW, you don't have to take a hit to the head to get a concussion, a severe shaking/movement of the head can cause it too. So just because a head doesn't touch the ground super hard, doesn't mean it rules out concussion.

If the new rules are such that if there's enough symptoms and evidence that if the diagnosis might be off, it's best that the player needs to sit the rest of the game, so be it.

I don't see that under new protocols that the NFL did anything wrong. Teams can overcome losing a QB for most of one game and still win titles. (Pats' won a title with Brady missing 4 games.) Better to err on the side of caution and not risk players with the highest pay and drawing power getting severely injured by having a Tua situation happen, if Tua was actually concussed during that Sunday game.

He didn't have impaired balance or coordination.  He got up immediately and walked off the field without a stumble. 

Bridgewater was forced out of the game because a guy in a booth thought he stumbled.  He didn't stumble.  The guy in the booth did not physically examine him yet diagnosed him with ataxia.  Any sack of a QB where he takes a hard hit, could force the player out of the game if someone says he "stumbles" whether he does or not.   

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article267145716.html

Bridgewater was sidelined after just one offensive play because an independent certified athletic trainer (ATC) situated in an upstairs booth said he stumbled and showed signs of ataxia — abnormality of balance/stability, motor coordination or dysfunctional speech — a symptom that bars a player from returning to the game.

As Bridgewater headed to the sideline, he entered the blue medical tent. The Dolphins announced he had an elbow injury and was being evaluated for a head injury. A person with a red hat — which signals they are an unaffiliated neurotrauma consultant (UNC) assigned by the league and NFL Players Association to assist teams with the diagnosis of head injuries — entered the tent at one point. Bridgewater then exited the medical tent and headed to the locker room with the consultant. Several minutes later, Bridgewater was ruled out for the remainder of the game due to the ATC Booth Spotter saying they saw Bridgewater stumble. This kept him out even though he passed the concussion evaluation and wasn’t showing signs of a concussion.

So apparently players can be diagnosed from a mile away and without any discussion or examination of the player (by someone that isn't even a doctor).  Yeah, that isn't going to cause any problems at all.

Very unique viewpoint. I’m personally with the majority of society in wanting to see reductions of life altering cte at the risk of a qb having to maybe sit out a game after being hit really hard.

[Moranis]

Ataxia is definitely a symptom of a concussion. How can someone claim no concussion symptoms were found when impaired balance and coordination is definitely a symptom of a concussion.

And oh, BTW, you don't have to take a hit to the head to get a concussion, a severe shaking/movement of the head can cause it too. So just because a head doesn't touch the ground super hard, doesn't mean it rules out concussion.

If the new rules are such that if there's enough symptoms and evidence that if the diagnosis might be off, it's best that the player needs to sit the rest of the game, so be it.

I don't see that under new protocols that the NFL did anything wrong. Teams can overcome losing a QB for most of one game and still win titles. (Pats' won a title with Brady missing 4 games.) Better to err on the side of caution and not risk players with the highest pay and drawing power getting severely injured by having a Tua situation happen, if Tua was actually concussed during that Sunday game.

He didn't have impaired balance or coordination.  He got up immediately and walked off the field without a stumble. 

Bridgewater was forced out of the game because a guy in a booth thought he stumbled.  He didn't stumble.  The guy in the booth did not physically examine him yet diagnosed him with ataxia.  Any sack of a QB where he takes a hard hit, could force the player out of the game if someone says he "stumbles" whether he does or not.   

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article267145716.html

Bridgewater was sidelined after just one offensive play because an independent certified athletic trainer (ATC) situated in an upstairs booth said he stumbled and showed signs of ataxia — abnormality of balance/stability, motor coordination or dysfunctional speech — a symptom that bars a player from returning to the game.

As Bridgewater headed to the sideline, he entered the blue medical tent. The Dolphins announced he had an elbow injury and was being evaluated for a head injury. A person with a red hat — which signals they are an unaffiliated neurotrauma consultant (UNC) assigned by the league and NFL Players Association to assist teams with the diagnosis of head injuries — entered the tent at one point. Bridgewater then exited the medical tent and headed to the locker room with the consultant. Several minutes later, Bridgewater was ruled out for the remainder of the game due to the ATC Booth Spotter saying they saw Bridgewater stumble. This kept him out even though he passed the concussion evaluation and wasn’t showing signs of a concussion.

So apparently players can be diagnosed from a mile away and without any discussion or examination of the player (by someone that isn't even a doctor).  Yeah, that isn't going to cause any problems at all.

What are you even whinging about? That the NFL has become too cautious about serious head trauma? Really?

Go watch some boxing then.

I think it is a bad idea for medical determinations to be made by a trainer in a booth rather than the actual doctors examining and treating the player. 

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

So Moranis- is it your contention that you are better suited to judge Bridgewater’s injury from home than a medical staff at the event? Why would that be?

[Vermont Green]

I see a couple of things here.  I think it is perfectly fine for the "booth spotter" to have the authority to say he saw something (a stumble or wobble or whatever) and have that trigger a mandatory evaluation by the head trauma specialist that is on the sidelines.  At that point though, the booth spotter should have no further say.  It should be the Doctors that are evaluating the player that make the determination.

I find it hard to believe that this went back up to the spotter in the booth to decide after the Doctors had cleared him.  If it is true, that he was cleared by the Doctors but still not allowed back in because he had been "spotted", that does not sound right.  Based on what I saw with the replay, I thought he did wobble and that sending him to the tent for an evaluation was the right thing to do.  But if the neurologist cleared him, and the team Doctors agreed, he should be able to go back in.  The team does not have to put him back in, but he should be available.

[Roy H.]

I see a couple of things here.  I think it is perfectly fine for the "booth spotter" to have the authority to say he saw something (a stumble or wobble or whatever) and have that trigger a mandatory evaluation by the head trauma specialist that is on the sidelines.  At that point though, the booth spotter should have no further say.  It should be the Doctors that are evaluating the player that make the determination.

I find it hard to believe that this went back up to the spotter in the booth to decide after the Doctors had cleared him.  If it is true, that he was cleared by the Doctors but still not allowed back in because he had been "spotted", that does not sound right.  Based on what I saw with the replay, I thought he did wobble and that sending him to the tent for an evaluation was the right thing to do.  But if the neurologist cleared him, and the team Doctors agreed, he should be able to go back in.  The team does not have to put him back in, but he should be available.

I agree with all of this.  The person with the most knowledge -- i.e., the doctors examining a player, both team-affiliated and independent consultants -- should make the call.  The "spotter" shouldn't be able to overrule anybody.

As we were discussing a few days back, I don't think the players really want a "you can't play if you show any sign of injury" policy.  It's going to affect their earning capacity.  Any time a QB is slow to get up, shakes his head, or takes extra time to gather himself potentially risks a star player being pulled from the game. 

[Moranis]

I see a couple of things here.  I think it is perfectly fine for the "booth spotter" to have the authority to say he saw something (a stumble or wobble or whatever) and have that trigger a mandatory evaluation by the head trauma specialist that is on the sidelines.  At that point though, the booth spotter should have no further say.  It should be the Doctors that are evaluating the player that make the determination.

I find it hard to believe that this went back up to the spotter in the booth to decide after the Doctors had cleared him.  If it is true, that he was cleared by the Doctors but still not allowed back in because he had been "spotted", that does not sound right.  Based on what I saw with the replay, I thought he did wobble and that sending him to the tent for an evaluation was the right thing to do.  But if the neurologist cleared him, and the team Doctors agreed, he should be able to go back in.  The team does not have to put him back in, but he should be available.

the Miami Herald article says pretty clearly that the examining doctors cleared him but because the booth spotter said he stumbled and ruled that ataxia he couldn't go back in

Bridgewater then exited the medical tent and headed to the locker room with the consultant. Several minutes later, Bridgewater was ruled out for the remainder of the game due to the ATC Booth Spotter saying they saw Bridgewater stumble. This kept him out even though he passed the concussion evaluation and wasn’t showing signs of a concussion.

[Vermont Green]

I see a couple of things here.  I think it is perfectly fine for the "booth spotter" to have the authority to say he saw something (a stumble or wobble or whatever) and have that trigger a mandatory evaluation by the head trauma specialist that is on the sidelines.  At that point though, the booth spotter should have no further say.  It should be the Doctors that are evaluating the player that make the determination.

I find it hard to believe that this went back up to the spotter in the booth to decide after the Doctors had cleared him.  If it is true, that he was cleared by the Doctors but still not allowed back in because he had been "spotted", that does not sound right.  Based on what I saw with the replay, I thought he did wobble and that sending him to the tent for an evaluation was the right thing to do.  But if the neurologist cleared him, and the team Doctors agreed, he should be able to go back in.  The team does not have to put him back in, but he should be available.

the Miami Herald article says pretty clearly that the examining doctors cleared him but because the booth spotter said he stumbled and ruled that ataxia he couldn't go back in

Bridgewater then exited the medical tent and headed to the locker room with the consultant. Several minutes later, Bridgewater was ruled out for the remainder of the game due to the ATC Booth Spotter saying they saw Bridgewater stumble. This kept him out even though he passed the concussion evaluation and wasn’t showing signs of a concussion.

Yeah, that is what I was responding to.  I may not know or understand the full story.  Tua was "spotted" but then cleared and put back in the game.  That didn't end well and it was widely criticized.  Bridgewater was spotted, cleared, but not put back in the game.  Now that is being criticized.  At the heart of this is that even a neurologist can't seem to be able to tell if there is head/brain injury or not by simply examining a patient in the tent.  So what do you do?  How do you know if it is safe to put a player back in?

It is true that if this goes too far, there won't be any players left on the field.  Everyone who gets up slowly will be placed in the protocol.  But no one seems to be able to determine what is too far in terms of player safety.  This is a very serious issue for the NFL.  Potentially an existential threat to the game.

[W8ting2McHale]

Was Tom Brady kicking like a baby because he was upset after being sacked by Jarret, or was it ataxia? Did he kick at Jarret because of something he said, or was it a reflex action from loss of motor control?

Brady took a bigger hit than Bridgewater did and got a roughing the passer call for it. Neither Bridgewater or Tua got roughing the passer penalties from their take downs.

Why is Brady given the benefit of the doubt from on field refs and off field spotters, but other QBs aren’t? Why did Brady not get a personal foul penalty for kicking after the play was over if he had full motor control of his legs?

The NFL has a double standard and punished the Dolphins for the public perception over how Tua’s situation was handled. It’s just surprising that they didn’t wait until further into the game and went for it on the 1st play.

[Donoghus]

Unrelated to poster playing doctor. 

ESPN
@espn
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8m
Davante Adams has been charged with misdemeanor assault for shoving a credentialed media worker.

Adams was cited for an "intentional, overt act" that inflicted "bodily injury," according to court records released Wednesday.