Bill Russell Died

[Roy H.]

I was sad to hear the news, but not entirely surprised like I was with Tommy. Reports of Bill’s health deteriorating, him recently selling his house and auctioning off prized possessions. Felt like this day was coming soon..

It’s just a shame that the Celtics ownership wasn’t willing to buy everything up at auction and open up their own museum in Boston (Similar to what the Patriots did) to honor Celtics legends like Bill Russell. Would  have been great for fans to be able to visit and pay homage, instead of rich people just buying pieces to display in their mansions as trophies. It’s sickening, really.

Tough for the C's to set up a museum at the Garden given they don't own it and the limited space in that building. I guess they could set one up at the Auerbach Center, but that's not a tourist destination and would never get heavy traffic.

I mean, Foxborough, Massachusetts isn’t exactly a tourist destination either, but the Patriots HOF seems to draw good amount of people. The Auerbach Center is at least in Boston and there is public transportation.

There is also a massive mall with stores, restaurants and entertainment in the exact area as the Pats HOF.  People in the southern and southwestern suburbs are drawn there on the regular by those things first and foremost. Hence the traffic that place gets. Such stuff to draw people doesn't exist near the Auerbach Center.

Sure, but there are also stores, restaurants, and entertainment close to the Auerbach Center. Plus, public transportation and a larger population of people in and around Boston. I would also imagine that there are more Celtics fans than Pats fans in general, as Basketball is popular worldwide and American football is not.

Not to get off-track, but I'm not sure this is true. I've lived in the greater Boston area since 1976. There are not a lot of "Celtics fans", meaning people who know what is going on with the team, their season record etc., at any given time. Patriots and Red Sox are more popular, and even the Bruins seem more popular than the Celtics. TD Garden sellouts do not reflect the true popularity.

In the northeast, of course. But worldwide or even nationwide? I don’t think so. Pats are not well liked elsewhere due to success from the TB12 years or spygate, deflategate, etc.

Patriots jersey sales were second only to the Cowboys last season, apparently.  It seems like they've got a lot of appeal.

The Celtics were 6th in the NBA (behind the Lakers, 76ers, Warriors, Bulls and Nets).

Nationwide? I find that hard to believe as the Patriots haven’t been that competitive since Brady left 3+ years ago. They also don’t have any star players on the team. Do you think the Patriots are more popular nationwide and worldwide than the Celtics are?

Again, they've got the second best selling jersey in the most popular sport in America.  I think that puts them ahead of the Celtics who rank sixth, yes.

The number of football fans in America dwarves basketball fans.  My guess is that the least popular NFL team has a more dedicated fanbase than the most popular NBA team.  The NFL generates $18 billion in revenue per season.  The NBA brings in perhaps half of that, despite having nearly 5 times as many games and many more playoff games.

[soulman]

"The way I play, my team wins" RIP GOAT 

[Goldstar88]

I was sad to hear the news, but not entirely surprised like I was with Tommy. Reports of Bill’s health deteriorating, him recently selling his house and auctioning off prized possessions. Felt like this day was coming soon..

It’s just a shame that the Celtics ownership wasn’t willing to buy everything up at auction and open up their own museum in Boston (Similar to what the Patriots did) to honor Celtics legends like Bill Russell. Would  have been great for fans to be able to visit and pay homage, instead of rich people just buying pieces to display in their mansions as trophies. It’s sickening, really.

Tough for the C's to set up a museum at the Garden given they don't own it and the limited space in that building. I guess they could set one up at the Auerbach Center, but that's not a tourist destination and would never get heavy traffic.

I mean, Foxborough, Massachusetts isn’t exactly a tourist destination either, but the Patriots HOF seems to draw good amount of people. The Auerbach Center is at least in Boston and there is public transportation.

There is also a massive mall with stores, restaurants and entertainment in the exact area as the Pats HOF.  People in the southern and southwestern suburbs are drawn there on the regular by those things first and foremost. Hence the traffic that place gets. Such stuff to draw people doesn't exist near the Auerbach Center.

Sure, but there are also stores, restaurants, and entertainment close to the Auerbach Center. Plus, public transportation and a larger population of people in and around Boston. I would also imagine that there are more Celtics fans than Pats fans in general, as Basketball is popular worldwide and American football is not.

Not to get off-track, but I'm not sure this is true. I've lived in the greater Boston area since 1976. There are not a lot of "Celtics fans", meaning people who know what is going on with the team, their season record etc., at any given time. Patriots and Red Sox are more popular, and even the Bruins seem more popular than the Celtics. TD Garden sellouts do not reflect the true popularity.

In the northeast, of course. But worldwide or even nationwide? I don’t think so. Pats are not well liked elsewhere due to success from the TB12 years or spygate, deflategate, etc.

Patriots jersey sales were second only to the Cowboys last season, apparently.  It seems like they've got a lot of appeal.

The Celtics were 6th in the NBA (behind the Lakers, 76ers, Warriors, Bulls and Nets).

Nationwide? I find that hard to believe as the Patriots haven’t been that competitive since Brady left 3+ years ago. They also don’t have any star players on the team. Do you think the Patriots are more popular nationwide and worldwide than the Celtics are?

Again, they've got the second best selling jersey in the most popular sport in America.  I think that puts them ahead of the Celtics who rank sixth, yes.

The number of football fans in America dwarves basketball fans.  My guess is that the least popular NFL team has a more dedicated fanbase than the most popular NBA team.  The NFL generates $18 billion in revenue per season.  The NBA brings in perhaps half of that, despite having nearly 5 times as many games and many more playoff games.

American Football in North America really is like soccer everywhere else. With that said, the amount of American Football fans worldwide is a fraction compared to basketball fans. I’m seeing multiple sites showing that there are around 400 million American football fans worldwide and over 2 billion basketball fans. I would expect that growth for basketball to continue when arguably 3 of the 5 best players in the NBA are international with Giannis, Luka, and Jokic. Once another Chinese star emerges, the popularity will increase even more. I’m sure Silver is praying for the next Yao Ming.

[Roy H.]

I was sad to hear the news, but not entirely surprised like I was with Tommy. Reports of Bill’s health deteriorating, him recently selling his house and auctioning off prized possessions. Felt like this day was coming soon..

It’s just a shame that the Celtics ownership wasn’t willing to buy everything up at auction and open up their own museum in Boston (Similar to what the Patriots did) to honor Celtics legends like Bill Russell. Would  have been great for fans to be able to visit and pay homage, instead of rich people just buying pieces to display in their mansions as trophies. It’s sickening, really.

Tough for the C's to set up a museum at the Garden given they don't own it and the limited space in that building. I guess they could set one up at the Auerbach Center, but that's not a tourist destination and would never get heavy traffic.

I mean, Foxborough, Massachusetts isn’t exactly a tourist destination either, but the Patriots HOF seems to draw good amount of people. The Auerbach Center is at least in Boston and there is public transportation.

There is also a massive mall with stores, restaurants and entertainment in the exact area as the Pats HOF.  People in the southern and southwestern suburbs are drawn there on the regular by those things first and foremost. Hence the traffic that place gets. Such stuff to draw people doesn't exist near the Auerbach Center.

Sure, but there are also stores, restaurants, and entertainment close to the Auerbach Center. Plus, public transportation and a larger population of people in and around Boston. I would also imagine that there are more Celtics fans than Pats fans in general, as Basketball is popular worldwide and American football is not.

Not to get off-track, but I'm not sure this is true. I've lived in the greater Boston area since 1976. There are not a lot of "Celtics fans", meaning people who know what is going on with the team, their season record etc., at any given time. Patriots and Red Sox are more popular, and even the Bruins seem more popular than the Celtics. TD Garden sellouts do not reflect the true popularity.

In the northeast, of course. But worldwide or even nationwide? I don’t think so. Pats are not well liked elsewhere due to success from the TB12 years or spygate, deflategate, etc.

Patriots jersey sales were second only to the Cowboys last season, apparently.  It seems like they've got a lot of appeal.

The Celtics were 6th in the NBA (behind the Lakers, 76ers, Warriors, Bulls and Nets).

Nationwide? I find that hard to believe as the Patriots haven’t been that competitive since Brady left 3+ years ago. They also don’t have any star players on the team. Do you think the Patriots are more popular nationwide and worldwide than the Celtics are?

Again, they've got the second best selling jersey in the most popular sport in America.  I think that puts them ahead of the Celtics who rank sixth, yes.

The number of football fans in America dwarves basketball fans.  My guess is that the least popular NFL team has a more dedicated fanbase than the most popular NBA team.  The NFL generates $18 billion in revenue per season.  The NBA brings in perhaps half of that, despite having nearly 5 times as many games and many more playoff games.

American Football in North America really is like soccer everywhere else. With that said, the amount of American Football fans worldwide is a fraction compared to basketball fans. I’m seeing multiple sites showing that there are around 400 million American football fans worldwide and over 2 billion basketball fans. I would expect that growth for basketball to continue when arguably 3 of the 5 best players in the NBA are international with Giannis, Luka, and Jokic. Once another Chinese star emerges, the popularity will increase even more. I’m sure Silver is praying for the next Yao Ming.

The revenue cited is worldwide, though.  Perhaps basketball really is 5x more popular than the NFL, but those fans aren't spending money on the NBA.

[nickagneta]

This is all driven by talk of an exclusive Celtic museum in Boston. It really doesn't matter. Such a museum wouldn't be attracting travelers worldwide to come visit. Traffic in something like that would be way more local, like almost exclusively.

If you have one at the Garden, which won't happen due to space constraints and a museum already being there, it makes sense since you have 18,000 people walking by it 100 or so times a year.

And..... The Sports Museum, which is at the Garden, is a sports museum that the Celtics help bouy, is dedicated to all Boston sports and probably attracts more eyes because of it's dedication to all Boston sports.

[Roy H.]

And..... The Sports Museum, which is at the Garden, is a sports museum that the Celtics help bouy is dedicated to all Boston sports and probably attracts more eyes because of it's dedication to all Boston sports.

The Boston Sports Museum kind of sucks, though.  I'd rather see them turn that space into something exclusively for the Bruins and Celtics, and include the really good stuff.  There's some memorabilia there, but not nearly as much as there should be.

And yes, retail space is expensive in and around North Station, but my goodness, if Dunkin can afford it, then so can Wyc, Pags and Jacobs (who owns the TD Garden).

[Kernewek]

. Do you think some of those front runners will start paying more attention to the C’s if they continue to make deep playoff pushes vs the Pats maybe being a borderline playoff team and likely best case, making the playoffs and losing first round? I can’t see them doing much better than 9-8 this season. Also, do you believe the Patriots are more popular nationwide and worldwide than the Celtics are? I have a hard time believing that considering basketball is huge in Asia (specifically China) and Europe.

If the Celtics win a ring they will increase their international jersey sales by, let's say roughly 5,000%.  That's just the way things go in sports, especially international sports.

Again, anecdotes, but Steph Curry jerseys were not a thing you saw much of abroad in 2011-2012 or even in 2014 (it would have been a real hoops fan or, more likely, someone from the Bay area on vacation). After the first ring you saw a few, and after two rings, you saw a lot. Curry, James, and Kobe jerseys are the usual suspects.

So we have:
1) The reigning best player on the league's best team & face of a dynasty,
2) The biggest name in the NBA since Jordan, and
3) A deified All-Timer who bridged the gap between Jordan and MJ.


Second half of the question: I'm going to say that while basketball is more popular in Europe and Asia, I'm no sure there's really a meaningful comparison because the Celtics, anecdotally, don't seem that popular outside of the US  - because they haven't won a championship and they don't have international talent on the roster outside of Big Al.

Speaking of Big Al, I feel like we're kind of like the Smith/Milsap/Horford Hawks to the international fandom.  Or Maybe the Carmelo Nuggets. Or the Dwight Magic or the 90's Sonics or the Webber-Divac Kings - pick your favourite good team that didn't win it all (yet, in our case).

[Surferdad]

I was sad to hear the news, but not entirely surprised like I was with Tommy. Reports of Bill’s health deteriorating, him recently selling his house and auctioning off prized possessions. Felt like this day was coming soon..

It’s just a shame that the Celtics ownership wasn’t willing to buy everything up at auction and open up their own museum in Boston (Similar to what the Patriots did) to honor Celtics legends like Bill Russell. Would  have been great for fans to be able to visit and pay homage, instead of rich people just buying pieces to display in their mansions as trophies. It’s sickening, really.

Tough for the C's to set up a museum at the Garden given they don't own it and the limited space in that building. I guess they could set one up at the Auerbach Center, but that's not a tourist destination and would never get heavy traffic.

I mean, Foxborough, Massachusetts isn’t exactly a tourist destination either, but the Patriots HOF seems to draw good amount of people. The Auerbach Center is at least in Boston and there is public transportation.

There is also a massive mall with stores, restaurants and entertainment in the exact area as the Pats HOF.  People in the southern and southwestern suburbs are drawn there on the regular by those things first and foremost. Hence the traffic that place gets. Such stuff to draw people doesn't exist near the Auerbach Center.

Sure, but there are also stores, restaurants, and entertainment close to the Auerbach Center. Plus, public transportation and a larger population of people in and around Boston. I would also imagine that there are more Celtics fans than Pats fans in general, as Basketball is popular worldwide and American football is not.

Not to get off-track, but I'm not sure this is true. I've lived in the greater Boston area since 1976. There are not a lot of "Celtics fans", meaning people who know what is going on with the team, their season record etc., at any given time. Patriots and Red Sox are more popular, and even the Bruins seem more popular than the Celtics. TD Garden sellouts do not reflect the true popularity.

In the northeast, of course. But worldwide or even nationwide? I don’t think so. Pats are not well liked elsewhere due to success from the TB12 years or spygate, deflategate, etc.

Goldstar88 was talking about worldwide. I was talking about Boston metro region. Why? Because a team that is not popular in their home city is not going to be popular elsewhere. C's are well-liked enough around here, but they are rarely the #1 in Boston except when they win championships.

[Kuberski33]

I was sad to hear the news, but not entirely surprised like I was with Tommy. Reports of Bill’s health deteriorating, him recently selling his house and auctioning off prized possessions. Felt like this day was coming soon..

It’s just a shame that the Celtics ownership wasn’t willing to buy everything up at auction and open up their own museum in Boston (Similar to what the Patriots did) to honor Celtics legends like Bill Russell. Would  have been great for fans to be able to visit and pay homage, instead of rich people just buying pieces to display in their mansions as trophies. It’s sickening, really.

Tough for the C's to set up a museum at the Garden given they don't own it and the limited space in that building. I guess they could set one up at the Auerbach Center, but that's not a tourist destination and would never get heavy traffic.

I mean, Foxborough, Massachusetts isn’t exactly a tourist destination either, but the Patriots HOF seems to draw good amount of people. The Auerbach Center is at least in Boston and there is public transportation.

There is also a massive mall with stores, restaurants and entertainment in the exact area as the Pats HOF.  People in the southern and southwestern suburbs are drawn there on the regular by those things first and foremost. Hence the traffic that place gets. Such stuff to draw people doesn't exist near the Auerbach Center.

Sure, but there are also stores, restaurants, and entertainment close to the Auerbach Center. Plus, public transportation and a larger population of people in and around Boston. I would also imagine that there are more Celtics fans than Pats fans in general, as Basketball is popular worldwide and American football is not.

Not to get off-track, but I'm not sure this is true. I've lived in the greater Boston area since 1976. There are not a lot of "Celtics fans", meaning people who know what is going on with the team, their season record etc., at any given time. Patriots and Red Sox are more popular, and even the Bruins seem more popular than the Celtics. TD Garden sellouts do not reflect the true popularity.

There aren't a lot of middle age males in the Boston area who would list the Celtics as their favorite local team. With much of our group, the C's are #4 among Boston teams in terms of popularity. Pats, Sox, Bruins, C's in that order.

[Moranis]

Nick Wright isn't always a friend to the C's or Boston sports in general, but I found this to be a nice fitting tribute to the Legend that was Bill Russell

https://twitter.com/getnickwright/status/1554081814469349376

[kraidstar]

Nba TV is airing replays today of Game 6 of the '63 Finals and Game 7 of the '69 Finals.

Both classics. Russell was incredible. By far the best player on the court. Opponents didn't even bother taking it inside against him. Love watching him rip the Lakers' hearts out.

[vjcsmoke]

Bill Russell was the winningest player of all time.  A great Celtic and a great human being. RIP.  You were a legend and you won't be forgotten by the Celtics Faithful, nor by anyone else who pays attention to basketball history.

[Goldstar88]

“Heroes get remembered, but legends never die.“
 -The Babe

[Finkelskyhook]

Got to see him play once.  I was 10 years old.  Remember Russell's blocked shot / outlet tip to Emmette Bryant.  Looked like they drew it up.

Greatest player ever.  Greatest winner ever.     While playing by the same rules as his peers. 

Better person.   

RIP, Sir. 

[Neurotic Guy]

This thread makes me think what I often think after a person dies and condolences and kind words follow - I wish these things were said before he died and somehow able to get to him to read.  I bet he would have appreciated it.  There may be no one quite on his plane as player and person, but I thought the same after Tommy died.  Maybe something for Cousy - or a collective appreciation thread to those still with us from the original dynasty.