Draymond Green's post game arrogance

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

I honestly don't want the refs to call every foul.  The game would be unwatchable.  It is like holding in the NFL.  There is holding on every single play, but you can't just call it every time or nothing would happen.  They do need to be more consistent in how they call fouls, but I'm fine with letting them play, it is a much better product overall.  For example, I have enjoyed these first two games far more than I enjoyed the first two games of the Miami series.  There were large portions of the ECF that were hard to watch.  The only reason this series has been hard to watch in the embarrassing 3rd quarter displays from the C's.

I don't think anyone wants Barny Fife out there calling fouls, but just have it be the same for both teams.

They certainly missed some calls, but in the game last night Boston was called for 18 fouls, while Golden State was flagged for 17.  Boston was 13 of 17 from the line and Golden State was 14 of 20.  So fouls were basically even with only a slight foul shot edge to GS with just 1 extra point.  Both teams were 15 of 37 from 3.    Boston was 30 of 80 overall (15 of 43 from 2) while GS was 39 of 86 overall (22 of 49 from 2), and those 6 extra attempts are pretty easy to track to the 6 extra turnovers that Boston had (18 to 12).  At the end of the day, fouls had very little to do with the outcome, it was quite simply Boston was far more careless with the ball and couldn't hit shots from 2 point range.

TP. The Celtics had a bad 3Q and then the game was over quickly. We move on. Game 3 should be awesome.

We would love Draymond, but he's on the other team. I embrace the Draymond hate. Bulletin board material. I think it's annoying to hear people cry to get him kicked out for leaving his leg on Jaylen in a taunting/dominance move. It's def a foul but not a tech. I think Javie explained it well and everything he said made sense.

[RockinRyA]

I honestly don't want the refs to call every foul.  The game would be unwatchable.  It is like holding in the NFL.  There is holding on every single play, but you can't just call it every time or nothing would happen.  They do need to be more consistent in how they call fouls, but I'm fine with letting them play, it is a much better product overall.  For example, I have enjoyed these first two games far more than I enjoyed the first two games of the Miami series.  There were large portions of the ECF that were hard to watch.  The only reason this series has been hard to watch in the embarrassing 3rd quarter displays from the C's.

I don't think anyone wants Barny Fife out there calling fouls, but just have it be the same for both teams.

They certainly missed some calls, but in the game last night Boston was called for 18 fouls, while Golden State was flagged for 17.  Boston was 13 of 17 from the line and Golden State was 14 of 20.  So fouls were basically even with only a slight foul shot edge to GS with just 1 extra point.  Both teams were 15 of 37 from 3.    Boston was 30 of 80 overall (15 of 43 from 2) while GS was 39 of 86 overall (22 of 49 from 2), and those 6 extra attempts are pretty easy to track to the 6 extra turnovers that Boston had (18 to 12).  At the end of the day, fouls had very little to do with the outcome, it was quite simply Boston was far more careless with the ball and couldn't hit shots from 2 point range.

The fact that Boston was still ahead in fouls while Green was doing green things is laughable. Its not the sole reason the Celtics lost, far from it. But to deny how the calls went is just plain idiocy. Donaghy explained how the games are being influenced. They cant miss every call because that would be obvious. What they do is make calls to stop momentum, get certain players off their game due to missed calls or foul trouble.

We lost the game mostly due to turnovers and poor play. But refs were also bad last night.

[CelticsPoetry]

I honestly don't want the refs to call every foul.  The game would be unwatchable.  It is like holding in the NFL.  There is holding on every single play, but you can't just call it every time or nothing would happen.  They do need to be more consistent in how they call fouls, but I'm fine with letting them play, it is a much better product overall.  For example, I have enjoyed these first two games far more than I enjoyed the first two games of the Miami series.  There were large portions of the ECF that were hard to watch.  The only reason this series has been hard to watch in the embarrassing 3rd quarter displays from the C's.

I don't think anyone wants Barny Fife out there calling fouls, but just have it be the same for both teams.

They certainly missed some calls, but in the game last night Boston was called for 18 fouls, while Golden State was flagged for 17.  Boston was 13 of 17 from the line and Golden State was 14 of 20.  So fouls were basically even with only a slight foul shot edge to GS with just 1 extra point.  Both teams were 15 of 37 from 3.    Boston was 30 of 80 overall (15 of 43 from 2) while GS was 39 of 86 overall (22 of 49 from 2), and those 6 extra attempts are pretty easy to track to the 6 extra turnovers that Boston had (18 to 12).  At the end of the day, fouls had very little to do with the outcome, it was quite simply Boston was far more careless with the ball and couldn't hit shots from 2 point range.

TP. The Celtics had a bad 3Q and then the game was over quickly. We move on. Game 3 should be awesome.

We would love Draymond, but he's on the other team. I embrace the Draymond hate. Bulletin board material. I think it's annoying to hear people cry to get him kicked out for leaving his leg on Jaylen in a taunting/dominance move. It's def a foul but not a tech. I think Javie explained it well and everything he said made sense.

It made sense in the context of admitting that refs are biased. What about Draymond trying to pull down Brown's pants?

[RockinRyA]

I honestly don't want the refs to call every foul.  The game would be unwatchable.  It is like holding in the NFL.  There is holding on every single play, but you can't just call it every time or nothing would happen.  They do need to be more consistent in how they call fouls, but I'm fine with letting them play, it is a much better product overall.  For example, I have enjoyed these first two games far more than I enjoyed the first two games of the Miami series.  There were large portions of the ECF that were hard to watch.  The only reason this series has been hard to watch in the embarrassing 3rd quarter displays from the C's.

I don't think anyone wants Barny Fife out there calling fouls, but just have it be the same for both teams.

They certainly missed some calls, but in the game last night Boston was called for 18 fouls, while Golden State was flagged for 17.  Boston was 13 of 17 from the line and Golden State was 14 of 20.  So fouls were basically even with only a slight foul shot edge to GS with just 1 extra point.  Both teams were 15 of 37 from 3.    Boston was 30 of 80 overall (15 of 43 from 2) while GS was 39 of 86 overall (22 of 49 from 2), and those 6 extra attempts are pretty easy to track to the 6 extra turnovers that Boston had (18 to 12).  At the end of the day, fouls had very little to do with the outcome, it was quite simply Boston was far more careless with the ball and couldn't hit shots from 2 point range.

TP. The Celtics had a bad 3Q and then the game was over quickly. We move on. Game 3 should be awesome.

We would love Draymond, but he's on the other team. I embrace the Draymond hate. Bulletin board material. I think it's annoying to hear people cry to get him kicked out for leaving his leg on Jaylen in a taunting/dominance move. It's def a foul but not a tech. I think Javie explained it well and everything he said made sense.

Its a tech, steve javie admitted it as much. How in the heck can you even say its just a foul, that its a basketball play?

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

I’ve watched it over and over. It was chippy, but it didn’t seem over the top. Some of his other fouls (running into non-shooting Celtics) seemed more egregious. He could have had a bunch of techs, as he was playing out of control.

The whining about ejections is a bad look. Play the game, up the intensity, and smack him right back in the mouth in Boston. Go Celtics!

[Yuckabuck33]

I honestly don't want the refs to call every foul.  The game would be unwatchable.  It is like holding in the NFL.  There is holding on every single play, but you can't just call it every time or nothing would happen.  They do need to be more consistent in how they call fouls, but I'm fine with letting them play, it is a much better product overall.  For example, I have enjoyed these first two games far more than I enjoyed the first two games of the Miami series.  There were large portions of the ECF that were hard to watch.  The only reason this series has been hard to watch in the embarrassing 3rd quarter displays from the C's.

I don't think anyone wants Barny Fife out there calling fouls, but just have it be the same for both teams.

They certainly missed some calls, but in the game last night Boston was called for 18 fouls, while Golden State was flagged for 17.  Boston was 13 of 17 from the line and Golden State was 14 of 20.  So fouls were basically even with only a slight foul shot edge to GS with just 1 extra point.  Both teams were 15 of 37 from 3.    Boston was 30 of 80 overall (15 of 43 from 2) while GS was 39 of 86 overall (22 of 49 from 2), and those 6 extra attempts are pretty easy to track to the 6 extra turnovers that Boston had (18 to 12).  At the end of the day, fouls had very little to do with the outcome, it was quite simply Boston was far more careless with the ball and couldn't hit shots from 2 point range.

You're counting fouls that didn't happen? No.
The let green play football while forcing Boston to play basketball.

I'll say it again, in 2002 people like you were telling kinds fans there was nothing to see. Are you so confident you would bet your soul the game last night was just a matter of incompetent refs?

I think they generally let the players play.  There were a couple they probably should have called, but in both games they've let the players play a lot more than happened in the Miami series.  I just think it is easier to blame the refs for fans than the players.  Makes it feel like there is a bad guy.  Boston did not lose the game because a couple of fouls weren't called.  Boston lost the game because they couldn't stop turning it over and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn from inside the arc.

Boston couldn't stop turning it over and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn from inside the arc because they were rattled by unfair, biased, obviously unprofessional officiating  that had extending the series as its goal.
Does anyone here have experience with playing in the NBA Finals and knowing that the refs are working to try to get you to lose that game? If you do, then you have the room to say that they should have had more composure, not turned the ball over, and make shots.

[angryguy77]

I honestly don't want the refs to call every foul.  The game would be unwatchable.  It is like holding in the NFL.  There is holding on every single play, but you can't just call it every time or nothing would happen.  They do need to be more consistent in how they call fouls, but I'm fine with letting them play, it is a much better product overall.  For example, I have enjoyed these first two games far more than I enjoyed the first two games of the Miami series.  There were large portions of the ECF that were hard to watch.  The only reason this series has been hard to watch in the embarrassing 3rd quarter displays from the C's.

I don't think anyone wants Barny Fife out there calling fouls, but just have it be the same for both teams.

They certainly missed some calls, but in the game last night Boston was called for 18 fouls, while Golden State was flagged for 17.  Boston was 13 of 17 from the line and Golden State was 14 of 20.  So fouls were basically even with only a slight foul shot edge to GS with just 1 extra point.  Both teams were 15 of 37 from 3.    Boston was 30 of 80 overall (15 of 43 from 2) while GS was 39 of 86 overall (22 of 49 from 2), and those 6 extra attempts are pretty easy to track to the 6 extra turnovers that Boston had (18 to 12).  At the end of the day, fouls had very little to do with the outcome, it was quite simply Boston was far more careless with the ball and couldn't hit shots from 2 point range.

You're counting fouls that didn't happen? No.
The let green play football while forcing Boston to play basketball.

I'll say it again, in 2002 people like you were telling kinds fans there was nothing to see. Are you so confident you would bet your soul the game last night was just a matter of incompetent refs?

I think they generally let the players play.  There were a couple they probably should have called, but in both games they've let the players play a lot more than happened in the Miami series.  I just think it is easier to blame the refs for fans than the players.  Makes it feel like there is a bad guy.  Boston did not lose the game because a couple of fouls weren't called.  Boston lost the game because they couldn't stop turning it over and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn from inside the arc.

Boston couldn't stop turning it over and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn from inside the arc because they were rattled by unfair, biased, obviously unprofessional officiating  that had extending the series as its goal.
Does anyone here have experience with playing in the NBA Finals and knowing that the refs are working to try to get you to lose that game? If you do, then you have the room to say that they should have had more composure, not turned the ball over, and make shots.

Well said. These guys are human. Lets not forget that they grew up watching star players get special treatment. They didn't just walk out of a laboratory with no history of seeing some teams get favored in certain instances. I'm not saying every time they get a bad call or whatever to just fold and give up, but over the course of a game, it has to wear on you mentally. They played tough that first half and hung in for a few minutes in the 3rd.

This wasn't just a bad reffed game, it was top tier bad. Most of all work. Imagine you work at company A and it's being forced to play by the rules under the watchful eye of the feds. You have to work insanely hard to keep up with your competitor across the street, but that competitor is knowingly being allowed to break the rules and profit from it. At some point, you're going to break if the odds are too stacked against you.

I'll reiterate I'm not saying or condoning giving up, but I can understand why a team may makes mistakes or break in games where the refs are not hiding their intention.

[tenn_smoothie]

if someone gets their first tech. shouldnt they be on eggshells rest of the game? I dont understand the explanation that "well they got first tech so should do whatever they want because refs dont want to eject him."

For all the chatter around the referees being an undue influence on the outcome of the game, there are few things that an NBA referee can do to more directly influence a game than throw a player out with a technical foul.

So this creates the dissonance you're talking about -- players have to play soft to avoid 'actual' fouls, but in terms of behaviour they know that they'll really have to go beyond the pale to get the second tech.

once again. thats on Draymond to not act like a goon and get a 2nd tech. just like it was on Jaylen to play soft the rest of the game on defense because he didnt want to foul out. The rule shouldnt be "i got my first tech so now i can go all out"

agree, but it has been that way for a very long time.  Sam Mitchell on his radio show was talking about a game years ago when he was player playing against Karl Malone.  Malone picked up a tech and Sam said for the next 2 or 3 possessions Karl was just berating the ref and saying things like "are you going to kick me out, when all these fans are here to see me" and things of that nature.  Sam says he asked the ref if was going to take that and Sam got the T.  On the radio show, Sam then went on and on about how cowardly the refs are and how he can't stand most of them because of things like that. 

So this is not new and players know it.  They know once they get a T, they basically have to fight someone to get ejected.  That shouldn't be the way it is, but that is the way it has been for years.

That is a hell of an interesting story, especially the part about the refs being so cowardly.
What are they afraid of ? It's not as if they are going to be meeting the player in back of the arena for a post-game fistfight.

Another interesting question to me is, how do these modern Stepford-Refs measure up to their predecessors from the 60's-70's-80's ? Guys like Earl Strom, Richie Powers, Darrell Garretson, Hugh Evans, Mendy Rudolph, Jess Kersey, etc. Unlike today's GQ-models calling games in groups of 3, these former officials didn't exactly look like former athletes who played the game.

But in contrast to the current group, these past officials sure seemed to have a better feel for the game. They had a much better sense of the effect of contact and differentiating a foul from a no-call. They also looked much more in charge of the game. The players hardly said a word to them other than extremely controversial incidents. That was also part of the culture of basketball back then, but it's amazing to watch a Celts-Lakers finals game from the 80's where the players say nothing at all on most routine foul calls. All the arguing and arm gestures these days on almost every play is another element that has deteriorated the quality of the game.

[tenn_smoothie]

this is a bad look for the league - but only to people who actually care.  Both Javie and Draymond's comments essentially confirm the biased-officiating accusations that fans have levied against the league for years.  one of two things will happen: (1) the league comes down hard on Green in game 3 (or better yet the series) where he can't breath due to foul trouble and anything close to earning a tech will get him one and quite probably that second one to shoot down that commentary that a player with a tech already has carte blanch to run amok or (2) the league makes a hard push to bury those comments to sweep this under the rug to go on with business as usual and avoid further investigation into corruption and game manipulation due to the financial impacts to their new business buddy -- sports gambling.   Which situation happens will be heavily dependent on what the national media does with this story.  I suspect that the national media being the corporate toadies they are, won't pursue this at all and this will not get mentioned anywhere outside of maybe Boston today or afterwards.

Seeing that you can google Draymond Green's name right now and the topic does not come up at all, the latter assumption is obviously true.

Disconcerting to say the least.

Ok Celtics, as Sean Connery asked in The Untouchables, " Now, What are you willing to do ?"

[tenn_smoothie]

Draymond Green after Game 2 of the finals Sunday night, bragged that he has earned biased treatment by officials in the NBA. He arrogantly stated that he could do what he wanted in Game 2 because he knew they would never hit him with a 2nd tech after the first he got in a skirmish with Grant Williams. He went so far as to lean in with the officials while they reviewed a possible flagrant against him in the 2nd half, which would have resulted in a game ejection. He literally stuck himself in there to intimidate the refs.

His quote, "I've earned differential treatment' from refs."
(Actually Draymond, the word is "deferential"). A differential is part of the rear axle of an automobile, nitwit.

How is it he gets away with all this ? Why didn't Ime go nuclear when Green pulled that stunt during the video review ?
Ime should have been all over the officials about Green's rough/dirty play tonite, which apparently, he knows he can do with impunity.

To be fair to Ime, he did get a tech for expressing to the officials his dissatisfaction on how the game was being "managed", and according to him it was on purpose. Not sure what else he could have done short of getting himself thrown out of the game.

Thanks oz, I should have put that as a question, given that I switched channels back and forth, partly because it was too painful to watch and partly was keeping up with the Vols NCAA regional baseball game. Sounds like Ime did what he could. I'm hoping he had some choice words for the officiating post-game, but that doesn't seem to be his style.

I have just been stewing with anger the last couple of days and Green's comments only make it worse.
I can only hope the Celtics are feeling the same way. This situation is where your two stars should put the team on their back and make their bones leading us to a title with some high octane scoring minus the turnovers. Both J's seem slightly off balance right now.

[ozgod]

Draymond Green after Game 2 of the finals Sunday night, bragged that he has earned biased treatment by officials in the NBA. He arrogantly stated that he could do what he wanted in Game 2 because he knew they would never hit him with a 2nd tech after the first he got in a skirmish with Grant Williams. He went so far as to lean in with the officials while they reviewed a possible flagrant against him in the 2nd half, which would have resulted in a game ejection. He literally stuck himself in there to intimidate the refs.

His quote, "I've earned differential treatment' from refs."
(Actually Draymond, the word is "deferential"). A differential is part of the rear axle of an automobile, nitwit.

How is it he gets away with all this ? Why didn't Ime go nuclear when Green pulled that stunt during the video review ?
Ime should have been all over the officials about Green's rough/dirty play tonite, which apparently, he knows he can do with impunity.

To be fair to Ime, he did get a tech for expressing to the officials his dissatisfaction on how the game was being "managed", and according to him it was on purpose. Not sure what else he could have done short of getting himself thrown out of the game.

Thanks oz, I should have put that as a question, given that I switched channels back and forth, partly because it was too painful to watch and partly was keeping up with the Vols NCAA regional baseball game. Sounds like Ime did what he could. I'm hoping he had some choice words for the officiating post-game, but that doesn't seem to be his style.

I have just been stewing with anger the last couple of days and Green's comments only make it worse.
I can only hope the Celtics are feeling the same way. This situation is where your two stars should put the team on their back and make their bones leading us to a title with some high octane scoring minus the turnovers. Both J's seem slightly off balance right now.

Here's what he said post game. None of them were happy, and understandably so.

On the Celtics’ ensuing possession, frustration continued. As Smart and Curry jostled for position on an inbounds play, Celtics coach Ime Udoka got hit with a technical for something he said to the officials.

While Udoka’s technical gave Golden State a free point, it was by design.

“I just let them know how I felt throughout the game, in a demonstrative way, on purpose, to get a technical,” Udoka said, putting emphasis after “game,” “way,” “purpose,” and “technical.”

Celtics forward/center Al Horford sensed a similar frustration with the officiating as his coach did.

“I could see that coming a mile away. That whole first half…” Horford said with a sigh, “was definitely different. We knew it was going to be different. We just kind of wanted to stay the course. It is what it is. On to Game 3.”

Jayson Tatum also voiced a comment against the officiating in Game 2 when asked about Warriors star Draymond Green’s physicality.

“We know what Draymond brings to the game, obviously I played with him. We tried to match that,” Tatum said. “I just kind of felt that we weren’t getting the benefit of the doubt. We were trying to play with that physicality.”

The Celtics actually had a brief spark following Udoka’s technical. After Curry gave the Warriors a 68-56 lead with his free throw, the Celtics went on a 6-0 run with Grant Williams and Tatum each making a 3-pointer.

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2022/06/05/celtics-warriors-game-2-nba-finals-ime-udoka-technical-foul-refs-officiating/

Like others on this thread, I don't think Draymond did himself any favors with his own smug post game presser where he implied he was untouchable because of his stature...delusions of grandeur. The refs will be watching him like a hawk in Game 3, they're not going to appreciate him taking advantage of their generosity by suggesting he deserves to get "differential" (sic) treatment.

[Neurotic Guy]

Draymond definitely feels he can get in people's heads -- and so far I think he's right.

The interesting thing about arrogant comments is that when you beat that guy it feels way better, but when you lose to that guy it feels that much worse. 

[gouki88]

Draymond Green after Game 2 of the finals Sunday night, bragged that he has earned biased treatment by officials in the NBA. He arrogantly stated that he could do what he wanted in Game 2 because he knew they would never hit him with a 2nd tech after the first he got in a skirmish with Grant Williams. He went so far as to lean in with the officials while they reviewed a possible flagrant against him in the 2nd half, which would have resulted in a game ejection. He literally stuck himself in there to intimidate the refs.

His quote, "I've earned differential treatment' from refs."
(Actually Draymond, the word is "deferential"). A differential is part of the rear axle of an automobile, nitwit.

How is it he gets away with all this ? Why didn't Ime go nuclear when Green pulled that stunt during the video review ?
Ime should have been all over the officials about Green's rough/dirty play tonite, which apparently, he knows he can do with impunity.

To be fair to Ime, he did get a tech for expressing to the officials his dissatisfaction on how the game was being "managed", and according to him it was on purpose. Not sure what else he could have done short of getting himself thrown out of the game.

Thanks oz, I should have put that as a question, given that I switched channels back and forth, partly because it was too painful to watch and partly was keeping up with the Vols NCAA regional baseball game. Sounds like Ime did what he could. I'm hoping he had some choice words for the officiating post-game, but that doesn't seem to be his style.

I have just been stewing with anger the last couple of days and Green's comments only make it worse.
I can only hope the Celtics are feeling the same way. This situation is where your two stars should put the team on their back and make their bones leading us to a title with some high octane scoring minus the turnovers. Both J's seem slightly off balance right now.

What caused his tech was him pulling his mask down to call the official a term for a female dog, among other things. He was very hot

[ozgod]

Dubs faithful not exactly happy with Draymond.

[Roy H.]

Yeah, the guy is a huge net negative when he's not defending at an elite level. 

I think I read that he's the first guy in NBA history with at least 30 minutes played, 6 PFs, and fewer than 5 points, rebounds, and assists.