Report: Celtics to guarantee Horford’s $26M contract regardless of Finals result

[Celtics2021]

B. I don't consider it a lowball offer for someone age 37, 38, and 39.  It provides certainty and a conclusion to the end of his career and it is reasonable money for a player at the end of his career.

The thing is you're talking about Al signing that contract now, immediately after being the best big on a Finals team (outcome tbd), not a few years down the line when he's 38. There's no reason for him to sign that extension this summer, which is the discussion being had.

And again, the extension Moranis proposes is prohibited by the CBA.  This is all so silly.

Because the cut in the first year is too large?

Yep.  He’d have to make $15.9 million in year one alone.

Thanks, so an extension is out. How early can we offer Al a new contract?

July 1st, 2023.

[sgrogan]

B. I don't consider it a lowball offer for someone age 37, 38, and 39.  It provides certainty and a conclusion to the end of his career and it is reasonable money for a player at the end of his career.

The thing is you're talking about Al signing that contract now, immediately after being the best big on a Finals team (outcome tbd), not a few years down the line when he's 38. There's no reason for him to sign that extension this summer, which is the discussion being had.

And again, the extension Moranis proposes is prohibited by the CBA.  This is all so silly.

Because the cut in the first year is too large?

Yep.  He’d have to make $15.9 million in year one alone.

Thanks, so an extension is out. How early can we offer Al a new contract?

July 1st, 2023.

TP, this discussion is silly.

[bdm860]

B. I don't consider it a lowball offer for someone age 37, 38, and 39.  It provides certainty and a conclusion to the end of his career and it is reasonable money for a player at the end of his career.

The thing is you're talking about Al signing that contract now, immediately after being the best big on a Finals team (outcome tbd), not a few years down the line when he's 38. There's no reason for him to sign that extension this summer, which is the discussion being had.

And again, the extension Moranis proposes is prohibited by the CBA.  This is all so silly.

Because the cut in the first year is too large?

Yep.  He’d have to make $15.9 million in year one alone.

What is the rule that would limit Horford to that $15.9m?

Browsing cbafaq.com, I'm seeing declines (like raises) are limited to 8%, and that extensions always include the remaining season of the contract (this is all under #53).

So wouldn't an extension for Al have to start at $24.38m, which would be an 8% decline off his now guaranteed $26.5m for '23 (which would be considered the first year of the contract)?

Or is there another rule I'm missing?


On what Horford is actually worth at 37, 38, 39, of course I'm hoping he takes a sweetheart deal to stay with the C's.  Hoping for the narrative that he chased the money with Philly last time and was miserable, so is willing to leave money on the table now and wants to retire as Celtic.

[Phantom255x]

There's no way Horford is signing a 5M AAV deal after next season lol. Look at the contracts around the league nowadays. Unless, god forbid, he suffers some catastrophic injury he could easily get between at least 8-10M AAV IMO. He's still very productive.

Hell, Udonis Haslem seems to be getting paid 2-3M every year just to sit on the bench and coach

[Moranis]

There's no way Horford is signing a 5M AAV deal after next season lol. Look at the contracts around the league nowadays. Unless, god forbid, he suffers some catastrophic injury he could easily get between at least 8-10M AAV IMO. He's still very productive.

Hell, Udonis Haslem seems to be getting paid 2-3M every year just to sit on the bench and coach

Haslem is on the veteran minimum. 

[Phantom255x]

There's no way Horford is signing a 5M AAV deal after next season lol. Look at the contracts around the league nowadays. Unless, god forbid, he suffers some catastrophic injury he could easily get between at least 8-10M AAV IMO. He's still very productive.

Hell, Udonis Haslem seems to be getting paid 2-3M every year just to sit on the bench and coach

Haslem is on the veteran minimum.

Doesn't change my point. He's getting that to basically sit on the bench an entire season. Only about 2.5M less than what's being proposed for Horford at age 37 despite what he's doing now.

[sgrogan]

Which NBA Players are 35 years old?
NBA Player   Age
Kyle Lowry   35
Lou Williams   35
Goran Dragic   35
Wesley Matthews   35
George Hill   35
Garrett Temple   35
James Johnson   35
Jeff Green   35
Rudy Gay   35
Al Horford   35

Which NBA Players are 36 years old ?
NBA Player   Age
Chris Paul   36
Rajon Rondo   36
Dwight Howard   36
LaMarcus Aldridge   36
P.J. Tucker   36
Trevor Ariza   36
Taj Gibson   36

Which NBA Players are 37 years old?
NBA Player   Age
Carmelo Anthony   37
Paul Millsap   37
LeBron James   37
Which NBA Players are 38 years old?

Andre Iguodala is the only NBA Player who is 38 years old.

Which NBA Players are 41 years old?

Udonis Haslem is the only NBA Player is 41 years old.

[Moranis]

Which NBA Players are 36 years old ?
NBA Player   Age
Chris Paul   36
Rajon Rondo   36
Dwight Howard   36
LaMarcus Aldridge   36
P.J. Tucker   36
Trevor Ariza   36
Taj Gibson   36
Which NBA Players are 37 years old?
NBA Player   Age
Carmelo Anthony   37
Paul Millsap   37
LeBron James   37
Which NBA Players are 38 years old?

Andre Iguodala is the only NBA Player who is 38 years old.
Which NBA Players are 41 years old?

Udonis Haslem is the only NBA Player is 41 years old.

And what are their contracts?  Obviously Lebron and CP3 are on large contracts.  Ariza is riding out the contract he signed several years ago.  Tucker is signed for 7 million.  I believe everyone else is a veteran minimum. 

[celticsclay]

Which NBA Players are 35 years old?
NBA Player   Age
Kyle Lowry   35
Lou Williams   35
Goran Dragic   35
Wesley Matthews   35
George Hill   35
Garrett Temple   35
James Johnson   35
Jeff Green   35
Rudy Gay   35
Al Horford   35

Which NBA Players are 36 years old ?
NBA Player   Age
Chris Paul   36
Rajon Rondo   36
Dwight Howard   36
LaMarcus Aldridge   36
P.J. Tucker   36
Trevor Ariza   36
Taj Gibson   36

Which NBA Players are 37 years old?
NBA Player   Age
Carmelo Anthony   37
Paul Millsap   37
LeBron James   37
Which NBA Players are 38 years old?

Andre Iguodala is the only NBA Player who is 38 years old.

Which NBA Players are 41 years old?

Udonis Haslem is the only NBA Player is 41 years old.

Thanks for putting the list together. TP. I guess looking at that list Horford is probably the best of anyone on it for their age 35 season by a pretty decent margin? (Sorry meant outside of Paul abd Lebron obviously)

[nickagneta]

In order to extend Horford and do so that his salary is as small as possible given his value, I believe a renegotiate and extend could happen after June 30th of the year. In that renegotiation, if Horford is due $26.5 million and that renegotiation decreases the $26.5 number by almost nothing, then the max decrease in that first extended year can't be more than 40%, or a salary that first year of $15.9 million. Then it's 8% decrease each year after that. If they extend three years it's

2022-23 next year: $26.5 million
2023-24 1st year: $15.9 million
2024-25 2nd year: $14.628 million
2025-26 3rd year: $ 13.356 million.

But if the Celtics decide not to guarantee to $27.5 and they lose the Finals, a renegotiate and extend at $19.5 million is way more palatable to the team

2022-23 next year: $19.5 million
2023-24 1st year: $11.7 million
2024-25 2nd year: $10.764 million
2025-26 3rd year: $ 9.858 million.

Maybe they throw in a no trade clause for the second option, if it is even available.

Best case is probably just guarantee the $26.5 million, see how he plays by the end of next season and negotiate a two year deal for about $10 million per thereafter.

[BitterJim]

In order to extend Horford and do so that his salary is as small as possible given his value, I believe a renegotiate and extend could happen after June 30th of the year. In that renegotiation, if Horford is due $26.5 million and that renegotiation decreases the $26.5 number by almost nothing, then the max decrease in that first extended year can't be more than 40%, or a salary that first year of $15.9 million. Then it's 8% decrease each year after that. If they extend three years it's

2022-23 next year: $26.5 million
2023-24 1st year: $15.9 million
2024-25 2nd year: $14.628 million
2025-26 3rd year: $ 13.356 million.

But if the Celtics decide not to guarantee to $27.5 and they lose the Finals, a renegotiate and extend at $19.5 million is way more palatable to the team

2022-23 next year: $19.5 million
2023-24 1st year: $11.7 million
2024-25 2nd year: $10.764 million
2025-26 3rd year: $ 9.858 million.

Maybe they throw in a no trade clause for the second option, if it is even available.

Best case is probably just guarantee the $26.5 million, see how he plays by the end of next season and negotiate a two year deal for about $10 million per thereafter.

You can't reduce a players salary in a renegotiation: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q59

A renegotiation can only be used to provide a salary increase -- players can't take a "pay cut" in order to create more cap room for the team.

There's no way around that 60% lower bound, unfortunately. He'll be a free agent in 2023

[nickagneta]

In order to extend Horford and do so that his salary is as small as possible given his value, I believe a renegotiate and extend could happen after June 30th of the year. In that renegotiation, if Horford is due $26.5 million and that renegotiation decreases the $26.5 number by almost nothing, then the max decrease in that first extended year can't be more than 40%, or a salary that first year of $15.9 million. Then it's 8% decrease each year after that. If they extend three years it's

2022-23 next year: $26.5 million
2023-24 1st year: $15.9 million
2024-25 2nd year: $14.628 million
2025-26 3rd year: $ 13.356 million.

But if the Celtics decide not to guarantee to $27.5 and they lose the Finals, a renegotiate and extend at $19.5 million is way more palatable to the team

2022-23 next year: $19.5 million
2023-24 1st year: $11.7 million
2024-25 2nd year: $10.764 million
2025-26 3rd year: $ 9.858 million.

Maybe they throw in a no trade clause for the second option, if it is even available.

Best case is probably just guarantee the $26.5 million, see how he plays by the end of next season and negotiate a two year deal for about $10 million per thereafter.

You can't reduce a players salary in a renegotiation: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q59

A renegotiation can only be used to provide a salary increase -- players can't take a "pay cut" in order to create more cap room for the team.

There's no way around that 60% lower bound, unfortunately. He'll be a free agent in 2023

Meh, so the renogiation is for a $1 increase on the year under contract. Everything else still holds.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

$5m for Al Horford.

Great posting Moranis. Keep chucking it up from half court!

[Phantom255x]

$5m for Al Horford.

Great posting Moranis. Keep chucking it up from half court!

 

[Moranis]

$5m for Al Horford.

Great posting Moranis. Keep chucking it up from half court!

why don't you actually wait until he signs a contract for 2 seasons from now before you go on your victory dance?  I seem to recall many similar type sentiments many times over the years when I was absolutely proven correct on things.  Those always seem to be forgotten.