JT > PP

[Sophomore]

Pierce was a much much better defender overally speaking.

I don’t see that. In the 4th quarter of the last game, Tatum was on Durant a few times and made big plays - a block, great contests. KD is the best pure scorer in the league and close to unguardable. Very hard to do better, let alone a “much much better.” And throughout the season JT has shown a lot.

[Moranis]

I think you can say with some certainty that Tatum at 24 is ahead of where Pierce was at 24. 

I'm not sure you can.  I think there's a good argument that his Age 24 season (2002) was Pierce's best.

Sure and Tatum was better. 

Tatum is better than Pierce.  We have this view of Paul that I think is skewed.  He had just 1 2nd Team All NBA and just 3 3rd Team All NBA in his entire career.  The 2nd Team was 09 when he had his highest MVP finish at 7.  I believe Tatum is going to finish higher than that this year (or at least equal it).  That season was obviously not Pierce's best statistical season either.  Tatum is a more efficient scorer, a better rebounder, a better defender, and turns it over less.  Pierce has a peak as a slightly better passer and got to the line a lot more frequently. 

Outside of the 1 pre-knee injury season from Garnett, Tatum is unquestionably the best Celtic since Bird.  He is pretty quickly climbing up the all time Celtics rank of goodness and I think you could argue he is only behind Larry and Bill (I'd also currently have him behind McHale, Cowens, Hondo, and 1 KG season, but it is becoming harder to deny just how good Tatum is becoming).

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=piercpa01&p1yrfrom=2002&player_id2=tatumja01&p2yrfrom=2022

The advanced numbers still favor Pierce.  PER, WS, DWS, OWS, VORP, BPM, Net Rating (and Defensive Rating), FG Added, TS Added

But, as mentioned, stats aren't the ultimate decider.  It's winning, and Pierce has Tatum for now in titles and Finals appearances.

Pierce won as the 2nd best player on his team.  Is Ray Allen in Boston better than Tatum because he won and went to the Finals more?  I mean come on.  The question is who is better and that is Tatum.  Tatum this season had a better individual season than any season in Pierce's career.  Also, Pierce's career on/off per 100 in Boston was +7.0, Tatum is at +8.8 and getting better.  That is the greatest factor in determining value to the scoreboard i.e. winning.  Tatum is better. 

[RJ87]

Pierce was a much much better defender overally speaking.

I don’t see that. In the 4th quarter of the last game, Tatum was on Durant a few times and made big plays - a block, great contests. KD is the best pure scorer in the league and close to unguardable. Very hard to do better, let alone a “much much better.” And throughout the season JT has shown a lot.

I agree. Jayson is kind of becoming underrated on that end. I really think he should receive some All-Defense consideration, but probably won't because Smart and Rob are near locks for the team.

As far as who's better between JT and Paul - I see a lot about Jayson not winning at the same level. Give Jayson a Kevin Garnett level running partner and then compare them. Paul was a very, very good All-star caliber player before KG got here, but the legend of Paul was really boosted by Garnett. 

[gouki88]

Pierce was a much much better defender overally speaking.

Seriously? This is not how I see it whatsoever. Tatum this season has been better than Pierce ever was on defence for my mind.

[jpotter33]

Yeah, agree with others about the defense. I think Tatum is a step above Pierce defensively, which isn't all that surprising given that he's got quite a bit better measurements (height, length, etc.) and athleticism than Pierce. While obviously not Smart level, JT is a pretty heady and intelligent defender, too.

Tatum on Sunday was the best I've ever seen him defend.

[libermaniac]

I think you can say with some certainty that Tatum at 24 is ahead of where Pierce was at 24. 

I'm not sure you can.  I think there's a good argument that his Age 24 season (2002) was Pierce's best.

Sure and Tatum was better. 

Tatum is better than Pierce.  We have this view of Paul that I think is skewed.  He had just 1 2nd Team All NBA and just 3 3rd Team All NBA in his entire career.  The 2nd Team was 09 when he had his highest MVP finish at 7.  I believe Tatum is going to finish higher than that this year (or at least equal it).  That season was obviously not Pierce's best statistical season either.  Tatum is a more efficient scorer, a better rebounder, a better defender, and turns it over less.  Pierce has a peak as a slightly better passer and got to the line a lot more frequently. 

Outside of the 1 pre-knee injury season from Garnett, Tatum is unquestionably the best Celtic since Bird.  He is pretty quickly climbing up the all time Celtics rank of goodness and I think you could argue he is only behind Larry and Bill (I'd also currently have him behind McHale, Cowens, Hondo, and 1 KG season, but it is becoming harder to deny just how good Tatum is becoming).

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=piercpa01&p1yrfrom=2002&player_id2=tatumja01&p2yrfrom=2022

The advanced numbers still favor Pierce.  PER, WS, DWS, OWS, VORP, BPM, Net Rating (and Defensive Rating), FG Added, TS Added

But, as mentioned, stats aren't the ultimate decider.  It's winning, and Pierce has Tatum for now in titles and Finals appearances.

Pierce won as the 2nd best player on his team.  Is Ray Allen in Boston better than Tatum because he won and went to the Finals more?  I mean come on.  The question is who is better and that is Tatum.  Tatum this season had a better individual season than any season in Pierce's career.  Also, Pierce's career on/off per 100 in Boston was +7.0, Tatum is at +8.8 and getting better.  That is the greatest factor in determining value to the scoreboard i.e. winning.  Tatum is better.

Amen. The narrative that you aren’t great unless you win a title is so overblown.  MJ didn’t win until his 7th season and wouldn’t have done so without Scottie, etc.  Tatum is better than Pierce. It’s that simple.

[tenn_smoothie]

Tatum on Sunday was the best I've ever seen him defend.

Which is very good news. The fact that Tatum knew it was time to ratchet up the defense and then put a lot of effort into doing so entering a tough playoff series speaks to his growth as an intense competitor, a trait of which I have I have long doubted he had. Would I ever want to be proven wrong. As far as Tatum vs Pierce, I do still put a lot of stock into playoff success. Pierce would never have put up a banner without Garnett changing the team culture, but he came thru in a big way when he was finally given that opportunity. I would just love to see Tatum and this all-draft core win some banners and restore the Celtics to their perch at the top of the NBA mountain.

[Who]

Tatum is getting there. Firmly with Pierce in the past but Tatum is making it close and still getting better.

[blink]

Yeah, agree with others about the defense. I think Tatum is a step above Pierce defensively, which isn't all that surprising given that he's got quite a bit better measurements (height, length, etc.) and athleticism than Pierce. While obviously not Smart level, JT is a pretty heady and intelligent defender, too.

Tatum on Sunday was the best I've ever seen him defend.

Tatum has been capable of that type of def ever since he was a rookie.  He has good def instincts and when he is locked in he can be great.  Maybe he is at the point with his off game that he can focus more on his def?  I hope so.

[Goldstar88]

Think that goes without saying and has been the case since last season. Tatum is a top 10 player. Pierce never was. Jayson is better both offensively and defensively. Tatum is taller, longer, faster and more athletic than Paul. This is coming from a huge Pierce fan.

[seancally]

I’m in the Tatum > Pierce camp. But one thing I’ll say is that Pierce had that quality where, when the stakes were high and we needed a bucket, you just felt like Pierce was gonna get it. Tatum isn’t quite to that point but I think he will be. Game 1 certainly helped his case.

[pokeKingCurtis]

I’m in the Tatum > Pierce camp. But one thing I’ll say is that Pierce had that quality where, when the stakes were high and we needed a bucket, you just felt like Pierce was gonna get it. Tatum isn’t quite to that point but I think he will be. Game 1 certainly helped his case.

Yep was gonna say. JT needs to close more games. But plenty of time for him to do that. He's been closing more this calendar year.

[Vermont Green]

I’m in the Tatum > Pierce camp. But one thing I’ll say is that Pierce had that quality where, when the stakes were high and we needed a bucket, you just felt like Pierce was gonna get it. Tatum isn’t quite to that point but I think he will be. Game 1 certainly helped his case.

This is true.  Pierce was stronger and had more scoring versatility so he was better able to take the ball and get that bucket you really needed when everyone was trying to stop him.   I extend that to rebounding and defense as well.  Tatum gets more rebounds but Pierce had that ability to "go get a rebound" when the team really needed it.

I still say that Tatum at 24 is ahead of Pierce at 24 and I expect that trend to continue but there will be aspects of Pierce's game that Tatum may not ever be able to match.

As to defense, they are different types of defenders.  Tatum may be a little better already in terms of defense overall.  Pierce would kind of pick his spots but when he knew the team really needed a stop, he could be an outstanding defender.

[gouki88]

One aspect of Pierce's game that I wish Tatum could develop is the foul drawing. If Tatum got to the line 9 times a game he'd be unstoppable

[liam]

Tatum was on much better teams earlier in his career. PP got into a lot of bad habits playing with Walker that were ironed out when KG got here. Tatum is on a better career path but I think the talent is fairly equal.