JT > PP

[Ed Monix]

Jayson Christopher Tatum

2021-22: 26.9 PPG - 8.0 TRB - 4.4 AST

The second half of this regular season has seen Tatum turn the corner to perform consistently at an elite level.

In my eyes, Tatum is now better than Paul Pierce in his prime.

Pierce’s highest scoring season was the dreaded 2005-2006 season, where he averaged 26.8 PPG. The Celtics finished the season 33-49 and lent heavily on Pierce, because he was the only true scoring threat on a retooling roster.

Tatum has put up an impressive 8.0 rebounds per game, which is greater than any Pierce season. Although Tatum’s 4.4 assists aren’t higher than Pierce’s 5.1 in 2003-04, that was another underwhelming season in which the Celtics (again) leant on Pierce as their unofficial point guard.

The fact that in 2021, Tatum began the season very poorly, gives hope that we may see an even better Tatum in 2022-23.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

I think it is fair to think that the next generation of basketball players will be better than today's. While I think MJ>Lebron, I think there are decent points for Lebron (size, power, career longevity, impact on community). I'm still going with MJ, but it's a conversation.

I feel the same way here. Tatum is quicker, taller, more talented offensively, and even better defensively. That being said, I think he needs a ring before we can say he's emphatically better than Pierce. Hopefully Tatum gets his earlier in his career than Pierce.

[slamtheking]

I think it is fair to think that the next generation of basketball players will be better than today's. While I think MJ>Lebron, I think there are decent points for Lebron (size, power, career longevity, impact on community). I'm still going with MJ, but it's a conversation.

I feel the same way here. Tatum is quicker, taller, more talented offensively, and even better defensively. That being said, I think he needs a ring before we can say he's emphatically better than Pierce. Hopefully Tatum gets his first of many earlier in his career than Pierce.

fixed it for you

[Vermont Green]

I think you can say with some certainty that Tatum at 24 is ahead of where Pierce was at 24.  I am not sure you can say that this season by Tatum bests Pierce's peak.  And certainly in aggregate, you can't say that Tatum is ahead of Pierce yet.

I say "yet" as I think Tatum is better than Pierce and will surpass him but I am not ready to declare that just yet.

[Roy H.]

Tatum is more skilled.  He'll probably end up First Team All-NBA, something Pierce never did.

But, Pierce still has the greater legacy.  Tatum's gotta prove that he can hang one in the banners.

The numbers "best to best":

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=piercpa01&p1yrfrom=2006&player_id2=tatumja01&p2yrfrom=2022

or

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=piercpa01&p1yrfrom=2002&player_id2=tatumja01&p2yrfrom=2022

[SparzWizard]

If Tatum can hang one or more than one banner with the C's, then I'll consider it.

Love JT, but PP34 still my guy.

[Roy H.]

I think you can say with some certainty that Tatum at 24 is ahead of where Pierce was at 24. 

I'm not sure you can.  I think there's a good argument that his Age 24 season (2002) was Pierce's best.

[Moranis]

I think you can say with some certainty that Tatum at 24 is ahead of where Pierce was at 24. 

I'm not sure you can.  I think there's a good argument that his Age 24 season (2002) was Pierce's best.

Sure and Tatum was better. 

Tatum is better than Pierce.  We have this view of Paul that I think is skewed.  He had just 1 2nd Team All NBA and just 3 3rd Team All NBA in his entire career.  The 2nd Team was 09 when he had his highest MVP finish at 7.  I believe Tatum is going to finish higher than that this year (or at least equal it).  That season was obviously not Pierce's best statistical season either.  Tatum is a more efficient scorer, a better rebounder, a better defender, and turns it over less.  Pierce has a peak as a slightly better passer and got to the line a lot more frequently. 

Outside of the 1 pre-knee injury season from Garnett, Tatum is unquestionably the best Celtic since Bird.  He is pretty quickly climbing up the all time Celtics rank of goodness and I think you could argue he is only behind Larry and Bill (I'd also currently have him behind McHale, Cowens, Hondo, and 1 KG season, but it is becoming harder to deny just how good Tatum is becoming).

[Roy H.]

I think you can say with some certainty that Tatum at 24 is ahead of where Pierce was at 24. 

I'm not sure you can.  I think there's a good argument that his Age 24 season (2002) was Pierce's best.

Sure and Tatum was better. 

Tatum is better than Pierce.  We have this view of Paul that I think is skewed.  He had just 1 2nd Team All NBA and just 3 3rd Team All NBA in his entire career.  The 2nd Team was 09 when he had his highest MVP finish at 7.  I believe Tatum is going to finish higher than that this year (or at least equal it).  That season was obviously not Pierce's best statistical season either.  Tatum is a more efficient scorer, a better rebounder, a better defender, and turns it over less.  Pierce has a peak as a slightly better passer and got to the line a lot more frequently. 

Outside of the 1 pre-knee injury season from Garnett, Tatum is unquestionably the best Celtic since Bird.  He is pretty quickly climbing up the all time Celtics rank of goodness and I think you could argue he is only behind Larry and Bill (I'd also currently have him behind McHale, Cowens, Hondo, and 1 KG season, but it is becoming harder to deny just how good Tatum is becoming).

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=piercpa01&p1yrfrom=2002&player_id2=tatumja01&p2yrfrom=2022

The advanced numbers still favor Pierce.  PER, WS, DWS, OWS, VORP, BPM, Net Rating (and Defensive Rating), FG Added, TS Added

But, as mentioned, stats aren't the ultimate decider.  It's winning, and Pierce has Tatum for now in titles and Finals appearances.

[footey]

I think you can say with some certainty that Tatum at 24 is ahead of where Pierce was at 24. 

I'm not sure you can.  I think there's a good argument that his Age 24 season (2002) was Pierce's best.

Sure and Tatum was better. 

Tatum is better than Pierce.  We have this view of Paul that I think is skewed.  He had just 1 2nd Team All NBA and just 3 3rd Team All NBA in his entire career.  The 2nd Team was 09 when he had his highest MVP finish at 7.  I believe Tatum is going to finish higher than that this year (or at least equal it).  That season was obviously not Pierce's best statistical season either.  Tatum is a more efficient scorer, a better rebounder, a better defender, and turns it over less.  Pierce has a peak as a slightly better passer and got to the line a lot more frequently. 

Outside of the 1 pre-knee injury season from Garnett, Tatum is unquestionably the best Celtic since Bird.  He is pretty quickly climbing up the all time Celtics rank of goodness and I think you could argue he is only behind Larry and Bill (I'd also currently have him behind McHale, Cowens, Hondo, and 1 KG season, but it is becoming harder to deny just how good Tatum is becoming).

Preach!!

[footey]

I think you can say with some certainty that Tatum at 24 is ahead of where Pierce was at 24. 

I'm not sure you can.  I think there's a good argument that his Age 24 season (2002) was Pierce's best.

Sure and Tatum was better. 

Tatum is better than Pierce.  We have this view of Paul that I think is skewed.  He had just 1 2nd Team All NBA and just 3 3rd Team All NBA in his entire career.  The 2nd Team was 09 when he had his highest MVP finish at 7.  I believe Tatum is going to finish higher than that this year (or at least equal it).  That season was obviously not Pierce's best statistical season either.  Tatum is a more efficient scorer, a better rebounder, a better defender, and turns it over less.  Pierce has a peak as a slightly better passer and got to the line a lot more frequently. 

Outside of the 1 pre-knee injury season from Garnett, Tatum is unquestionably the best Celtic since Bird.  He is pretty quickly climbing up the all time Celtics rank of goodness and I think you could argue he is only behind Larry and Bill (I'd also currently have him behind McHale, Cowens, Hondo, and 1 KG season, but it is becoming harder to deny just how good Tatum is becoming).

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=piercpa01&p1yrfrom=2002&player_id2=tatumja01&p2yrfrom=2022

The advanced numbers still favor Pierce.  PER, WS, DWS, OWS, VORP, BPM, Net Rating (and Defensive Rating), FG Added, TS Added

But, as mentioned, stats aren't the ultimate decider.  It's winning, and Pierce has Tatum for now in titles and Finals appearances.

It's only fair to wait until Tatum is in his early 30's (the age Pierce won a title and a finals appearance) before using that as a comparison point, no?

[SHAQATTACK]

Similar , yet quite different players to me. Both can take over a game.

Pierce was born with the swag killer instinct, in your face trash talk you can’t stop me , I’m better than you.  Watch me tear your heart out grin in your face .  Pierces presence did a lot to intimidate guys from the tip off.  Deceptively athletic like Bird .

JT has an ever evolving game , more tricks in his bag ,   he is so smooth and is becoming a tactical surgeon in taking teams apart.   Pure beauty to watch .  I think of Paul George before his leg injury .  Tatum is still on his way UP the ladder , as think JB is too  JT needs to keep it going , win a title ,  push the Celtics ahead for a long period .   He has work to do , but I think he certainly has the potential to move past Paul.

[Vermont Green]

I think you can say with some certainty that Tatum at 24 is ahead of where Pierce was at 24. 

I'm not sure you can.  I think there's a good argument that his Age 24 season (2002) was Pierce's best.

You said yourself, Tatum is on track to be first team all NBA at age 24 and is a 3 time all star already.  Pierce had none of this yet by the season he turned 24 (2001-02).  Pierce of course has a finals MVP that Tatum does not yet.  I would say this all puts Tatum ahead of Pierce but still with some work to do in order to pass Pierce in terms of aggregate accomplishments.

Pierce and Tatum have birthdays that are 6 months off so it is hard to match up the seasons exactly.  Pierce was born Oct 1977 so his 24 year season was actually 2001-02, still a really good statistical season but I don't see him as elite in the league at that time as Tatum is right now.  You could just as easily go back one season for Pierce and he would be 6 months younger than Tatum is now instead of 6 months older.

[Roy H.]

I think you can say with some certainty that Tatum at 24 is ahead of where Pierce was at 24. 

I'm not sure you can.  I think there's a good argument that his Age 24 season (2002) was Pierce's best.

Sure and Tatum was better. 

Tatum is better than Pierce.  We have this view of Paul that I think is skewed.  He had just 1 2nd Team All NBA and just 3 3rd Team All NBA in his entire career.  The 2nd Team was 09 when he had his highest MVP finish at 7.  I believe Tatum is going to finish higher than that this year (or at least equal it).  That season was obviously not Pierce's best statistical season either.  Tatum is a more efficient scorer, a better rebounder, a better defender, and turns it over less.  Pierce has a peak as a slightly better passer and got to the line a lot more frequently. 

Outside of the 1 pre-knee injury season from Garnett, Tatum is unquestionably the best Celtic since Bird.  He is pretty quickly climbing up the all time Celtics rank of goodness and I think you could argue he is only behind Larry and Bill (I'd also currently have him behind McHale, Cowens, Hondo, and 1 KG season, but it is becoming harder to deny just how good Tatum is becoming).

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=piercpa01&p1yrfrom=2002&player_id2=tatumja01&p2yrfrom=2022

The advanced numbers still favor Pierce.  PER, WS, DWS, OWS, VORP, BPM, Net Rating (and Defensive Rating), FG Added, TS Added

But, as mentioned, stats aren't the ultimate decider.  It's winning, and Pierce has Tatum for now in titles and Finals appearances.

It's only fair to wait until Tatum is in his early 30's (the age Pierce won a title and a finals appearance) before using that as a comparison point, no?

Not if the argument is that Tatum has surpassed Pierce already.

[makaveli]

Pierce was a much much better defender overally speaking.