League Action Against Kyrie Watch

[Vermont Green]

Kuzma got $15K back in back in December https://sports.yahoo.com/washington-wizards-kyle-kuzma-fined-for-flipping-middle-finger-at-fan-detroit-pistons-030617837.html

I didn't know that.  But that is my point.  A $15,000 fine for the vast majority of NBA players is nothing more than a symbolic gesture of a penalty.  Kuzma makes over $150,000 per game.  Kyrie $427,000 per game.  This fine is 10% of one game's pay for Kuzma.  3% of one game for Kyrie.

Clearly Kyrie Irving knew this happened and the message he heard is wow, I can flip off the crowd if I want.  No big deal.  This is going to happen more and more if the only penalty is a $15,000 fine.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

This is a tough one. I am no fan of Kyrie, but Kyrie's post game press conference was fascinating to me. He said "I'm going to have the same energy towards them as they do towards me." Honestly, why isn't that ok? He's a human, who happens to be a basketball player. If at my job everyday people yelled at me, called me names, harassed me in everything I did I would lash out at some point too.

If fans want to get down and dirty (Which I don't mind) why can't a player do so in return. He's doing nothing different than the fans did.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with this. And honestly I think it's more fun if he gives it right back. At the end of day, it's sports entertainment, and in good entertainment villains and storylines make the product more compelling.

I'm not going to sit here and hate the man over basketball, but when you quit on your team in the playoffs then come back to their arena and stomp on their logo, you're going to get boos and insults hurled at you. You made your bed, dude.

While I see your point the thing is that these players make millions.  This is their job.  If someone came in to our place of work and called us names and we retaliated we'd be fired.  They should respond but not in a childish manner.  I will say though. The fans who use that verbal language should be tossed out the arena.  This is entertainment.  No place in the game from either side with this behavior.  Boo all you want. Tell Kyrie your glad he's gone. Just refrain from the verbal abuse that no one deserves to get. 

I'd rather fans just ignore Kyrie.  He feeds off of that and as you can see his performance is raised another level because of it.  He's been gone so long I'm unsure why he's hated on this level.  He did us a favor.  I'm not sure we have JB if he stayed. I'm not sure if Tatum develops his passing like he has if Kyrie stayed. This team was almost unwatchable when Kyrie was here.  I just don't want anyone to give Kyrie any ammo to be even better then he was. I want the Kyrie who's disinterested and can disappear for stretches.  Not the madman who hits everything.

You're saying if someone harassed at work continually, and you responded by flipping someone off you'd be fired? I don't think that's the case. I am a teacher, if I flipped a colleague off I'd certainly have a consequence, but I wouldn't be fired.

I deal with clients on behalf of my company.  Clients get in my grille sometimes.  If I flipped off a client, good chance I would be fired.  If I flipped off a partner or supplier or something like that, it would be different, but frowned upon, maybe not as likely to be fired.

The fans are the clients.

To the teacher, how about if you flipped off a parent, multiple times, at a public school board meeting, that was broadcast on national TV?  Would you at least be suspended?

Do your clients call you a P or a B in an angry tone? I'm not talking about friends making fun of each other on the golf course. A lot of those Celtics fans were trying to throw daggers. This wasn't just fun chirping.

If so, why do you continue to do business with them? I'm guessing that they give you crap, but don't verbally abuse you. Again, how good is a business relationship if someone is consistently getting abused?

I think you're letting fans off the hook here. I don't really care that they are paying "clients" or Celtics fans. Those fans definitely crossed the line and so did Kyrie.

As far as I'm concerned, it's a double technical. Just because you spent $10k on a ticket doesn't give you the right to be abusive. Fans should have to watch the rest of the game in the 300's, and Kyrie should get a heavy warning. If he does it again, suspension time.

[bdm860]

This is a tough one. I am no fan of Kyrie, but Kyrie's post game press conference was fascinating to me. He said "I'm going to have the same energy towards them as they do towards me." Honestly, why isn't that ok? He's a human, who happens to be a basketball player. If at my job everyday people yelled at me, called me names, harassed me in everything I did I would lash out at some point too.

If fans want to get down and dirty (Which I don't mind) why can't a player do so in return. He's doing nothing different than the fans did.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with this. And honestly I think it's more fun if he gives it right back. At the end of day, it's sports entertainment, and in good entertainment villains and storylines make the product more compelling.

I'm not going to sit here and hate the man over basketball, but when you quit on your team in the playoffs then come back to their arena and stomp on their logo, you're going to get boos and insults hurled at you. You made your bed, dude.

While I see your point the thing is that these players make millions.  This is their job.  If someone came in to our place of work and called us names and we retaliated we'd be fired.  They should respond but not in a childish manner.  I will say though. The fans who use that verbal language should be tossed out the arena.  This is entertainment.  No place in the game from either side with this behavior.  Boo all you want. Tell Kyrie your glad he's gone. Just refrain from the verbal abuse that no one deserves to get. 

I'd rather fans just ignore Kyrie.  He feeds off of that and as you can see his performance is raised another level because of it.  He's been gone so long I'm unsure why he's hated on this level.  He did us a favor.  I'm not sure we have JB if he stayed. I'm not sure if Tatum develops his passing like he has if Kyrie stayed. This team was almost unwatchable when Kyrie was here.  I just don't want anyone to give Kyrie any ammo to be even better then he was. I want the Kyrie who's disinterested and can disappear for stretches.  Not the madman who hits everything.

You're saying if someone harassed at work continually, and you responded by flipping someone off you'd be fired? I don't think that's the case. I am a teacher, if I flipped a colleague off I'd certainly have a consequence, but I wouldn't be fired.

I deal with clients on behalf of my company.  Clients get in my grille sometimes.  If I flipped off a client, good chance I would be fired.  If I flipped off a partner or supplier or something like that, it would be different, but frowned upon, maybe not as likely to be fired.

The fans are the clients.

To the teacher, how about if you flipped off a parent, multiple times, at a public school board meeting, that was broadcast on national TV?  Would you at least be suspended?

The NBA (and other pro sports) are a lot closer to WWE than any other regular business you all are trying to compare it to.  With teachers/suppliers/etc. there's not supposed to be a villain or somebody you're rooting against.  In pro sports there is.


Though I can understand how both Kyrie's and some fans' comments/actions could bother people, I love it, think it's great for both the atmosphere and the game.

Salty basketball is the best basketball.

[Vermont Green]

This is a tough one. I am no fan of Kyrie, but Kyrie's post game press conference was fascinating to me. He said "I'm going to have the same energy towards them as they do towards me." Honestly, why isn't that ok? He's a human, who happens to be a basketball player. If at my job everyday people yelled at me, called me names, harassed me in everything I did I would lash out at some point too.

If fans want to get down and dirty (Which I don't mind) why can't a player do so in return. He's doing nothing different than the fans did.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with this. And honestly I think it's more fun if he gives it right back. At the end of day, it's sports entertainment, and in good entertainment villains and storylines make the product more compelling.

I'm not going to sit here and hate the man over basketball, but when you quit on your team in the playoffs then come back to their arena and stomp on their logo, you're going to get boos and insults hurled at you. You made your bed, dude.

While I see your point the thing is that these players make millions.  This is their job.  If someone came in to our place of work and called us names and we retaliated we'd be fired.  They should respond but not in a childish manner.  I will say though. The fans who use that verbal language should be tossed out the arena.  This is entertainment.  No place in the game from either side with this behavior.  Boo all you want. Tell Kyrie your glad he's gone. Just refrain from the verbal abuse that no one deserves to get. 

I'd rather fans just ignore Kyrie.  He feeds off of that and as you can see his performance is raised another level because of it.  He's been gone so long I'm unsure why he's hated on this level.  He did us a favor.  I'm not sure we have JB if he stayed. I'm not sure if Tatum develops his passing like he has if Kyrie stayed. This team was almost unwatchable when Kyrie was here.  I just don't want anyone to give Kyrie any ammo to be even better then he was. I want the Kyrie who's disinterested and can disappear for stretches.  Not the madman who hits everything.

You're saying if someone harassed at work continually, and you responded by flipping someone off you'd be fired? I don't think that's the case. I am a teacher, if I flipped a colleague off I'd certainly have a consequence, but I wouldn't be fired.

I deal with clients on behalf of my company.  Clients get in my grille sometimes.  If I flipped off a client, good chance I would be fired.  If I flipped off a partner or supplier or something like that, it would be different, but frowned upon, maybe not as likely to be fired.

The fans are the clients.

To the teacher, how about if you flipped off a parent, multiple times, at a public school board meeting, that was broadcast on national TV?  Would you at least be suspended?

Do your clients call you a P or a B in an angry tone? I'm not talking about friends making fun of each other on the golf course. A lot of those Celtics fans were trying to throw daggers. This wasn't just fun chirping.

If so, why do you continue to do business with them? I'm guessing that they give you crap, but don't verbally abuse you. Again, how good is a business relationship if someone is consistently getting abused?

I think you're letting fans off the hook here. I don't really care that they are paying "clients" or Celtics fans. Those fans definitely crossed the line and so did Kyrie.

As far as I'm concerned, it's a double technical. Just because you spent $10k on a ticket doesn't give you the right to be abusive. Fans should have to watch the rest of the game in the 300's, and Kyrie should get a heavy warning. If he does it again, suspension time.

I have taken some pretty rough stuff from clients at times but no, a crowd of them does not stand around and scream insults at me while I am trying to do my job.  But if a client did get totally out of hand, I would be expected to handle it professionally and we would probably complain to that person's company and expect the company to deal with the individual.  If they didn't, maybe we would decide not to do business with them anymore.

And I don't disagree that the teams hosting the games do have responsibility to "police" fans that cross the line.  Other fans can help with this by letting security know.  Other fans don't want to sit next to some idiot that yells swears all game.  If the fans at games get too ugly, other fans may be less likely to buy tickets.  It is in the team's and the league's best interest to police this.

But more than 1 thing can be true at the same time.  Players should never flip off the fans.  Period.  There is no "but" followed by if fans swear too much or whatever.  It is such a bad look for the league.  Ugly fans are a bad look too but two wrongs don't make a right.

My main point is that a $15,000 fine is not going to stop this in the future.  Saying that does not suggest arenas should stop removing fans or otherwise policing fan behavior.  If Kyrie gets off easy on this (and I consider a fine getting off easy), more players are going to do the same thing in response to even less provocation in the future. 

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

This is a tough one. I am no fan of Kyrie, but Kyrie's post game press conference was fascinating to me. He said "I'm going to have the same energy towards them as they do towards me." Honestly, why isn't that ok? He's a human, who happens to be a basketball player. If at my job everyday people yelled at me, called me names, harassed me in everything I did I would lash out at some point too.

If fans want to get down and dirty (Which I don't mind) why can't a player do so in return. He's doing nothing different than the fans did.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with this. And honestly I think it's more fun if he gives it right back. At the end of day, it's sports entertainment, and in good entertainment villains and storylines make the product more compelling.

I'm not going to sit here and hate the man over basketball, but when you quit on your team in the playoffs then come back to their arena and stomp on their logo, you're going to get boos and insults hurled at you. You made your bed, dude.

While I see your point the thing is that these players make millions.  This is their job.  If someone came in to our place of work and called us names and we retaliated we'd be fired.  They should respond but not in a childish manner.  I will say though. The fans who use that verbal language should be tossed out the arena.  This is entertainment.  No place in the game from either side with this behavior.  Boo all you want. Tell Kyrie your glad he's gone. Just refrain from the verbal abuse that no one deserves to get. 

I'd rather fans just ignore Kyrie.  He feeds off of that and as you can see his performance is raised another level because of it.  He's been gone so long I'm unsure why he's hated on this level.  He did us a favor.  I'm not sure we have JB if he stayed. I'm not sure if Tatum develops his passing like he has if Kyrie stayed. This team was almost unwatchable when Kyrie was here.  I just don't want anyone to give Kyrie any ammo to be even better then he was. I want the Kyrie who's disinterested and can disappear for stretches.  Not the madman who hits everything.

You're saying if someone harassed at work continually, and you responded by flipping someone off you'd be fired? I don't think that's the case. I am a teacher, if I flipped a colleague off I'd certainly have a consequence, but I wouldn't be fired.

I deal with clients on behalf of my company.  Clients get in my grille sometimes.  If I flipped off a client, good chance I would be fired.  If I flipped off a partner or supplier or something like that, it would be different, but frowned upon, maybe not as likely to be fired.

The fans are the clients.

To the teacher, how about if you flipped off a parent, multiple times, at a public school board meeting, that was broadcast on national TV?  Would you at least be suspended?

Do your clients call you a P or a B in an angry tone? I'm not talking about friends making fun of each other on the golf course. A lot of those Celtics fans were trying to throw daggers. This wasn't just fun chirping.

If so, why do you continue to do business with them? I'm guessing that they give you crap, but don't verbally abuse you. Again, how good is a business relationship if someone is consistently getting abused?

I think you're letting fans off the hook here. I don't really care that they are paying "clients" or Celtics fans. Those fans definitely crossed the line and so did Kyrie.

As far as I'm concerned, it's a double technical. Just because you spent $10k on a ticket doesn't give you the right to be abusive. Fans should have to watch the rest of the game in the 300's, and Kyrie should get a heavy warning. If he does it again, suspension time.

I have taken some pretty rough stuff from clients at times but no, a crowd of them does not stand around and scream insults at me while I am trying to do my job.  But if a client did get totally out of hand, I would be expected to handle it professionally and we would probably complain to that person's company and expect the company to deal with the individual.  If they didn't, maybe we would decide not to do business with them anymore.

And I don't disagree that the teams hosting the games do have responsibility to "police" fans that cross the line.  Other fans can help with this by letting security know.  Other fans don't want to sit next to some idiot that yells swears all game.  If the fans at games get too ugly, other fans may be less likely to buy tickets.  It is in the team's and the league's best interest to police this.

But more than 1 thing can be true at the same time.  Players should never flip off the fans.  Period.  There is no "but" followed by if fans swear too much or whatever.  It is such a bad look for the league.  Ugly fans are a bad look too but two wrongs don't make a right.

My main point is that a $15,000 fine is not going to stop this in the future.  Saying that does not suggest arenas should stop removing fans or otherwise policing fan behavior.  If Kyrie gets off easy on this (and I consider a fine getting off easy), more players are going to do the same thing in response to even less provocation in the future.

I think you are getting the order of operations wrong here. I don't think fans came into the game blowing kisses in Kyrie's direction. As far as I was concerned, they started in on him at the tip.

I'm not saying that Kyrie should be able to flip off the fans. I'm not saying that fans should be able to do similar things (verbally or physically). I think it's all bad. While I'm not as sensitive to the finger (there are many other worse ways to insult someone), I also agree that it's a bad look.

Fans start in on Kyrie. Bad look. Kyrie responds with fingers. Bad look.

Kyrie has a larger moral obligation than a 60 year old man sitting in his chair? I don't buy that.

To quote Chris Rock... "It's not Reverend Clinton. It's not Pastor Clinton. It's Bill Clinton."

We put these guys on a pedestal and expect abnormal emotional regulation, during an incredibly emotional basketball game. Though some here disagree, Kyrie is a human being with all of his faults. Two wrongs don't make a right, but let's get a complete view of the situation without focusing on one side.

And by the way, I can't stand Kyrie Irving (the media personality). The basketball player is pretty, pretty good.

[tonydelk]

This is a tough one. I am no fan of Kyrie, but Kyrie's post game press conference was fascinating to me. He said "I'm going to have the same energy towards them as they do towards me." Honestly, why isn't that ok? He's a human, who happens to be a basketball player. If at my job everyday people yelled at me, called me names, harassed me in everything I did I would lash out at some point too.

If fans want to get down and dirty (Which I don't mind) why can't a player do so in return. He's doing nothing different than the fans did.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with this. And honestly I think it's more fun if he gives it right back. At the end of day, it's sports entertainment, and in good entertainment villains and storylines make the product more compelling.

I'm not going to sit here and hate the man over basketball, but when you quit on your team in the playoffs then come back to their arena and stomp on their logo, you're going to get boos and insults hurled at you. You made your bed, dude.

While I see your point the thing is that these players make millions.  This is their job.  If someone came in to our place of work and called us names and we retaliated we'd be fired.  They should respond but not in a childish manner.  I will say though. The fans who use that verbal language should be tossed out the arena.  This is entertainment.  No place in the game from either side with this behavior.  Boo all you want. Tell Kyrie your glad he's gone. Just refrain from the verbal abuse that no one deserves to get. 

I'd rather fans just ignore Kyrie.  He feeds off of that and as you can see his performance is raised another level because of it.  He's been gone so long I'm unsure why he's hated on this level.  He did us a favor.  I'm not sure we have JB if he stayed. I'm not sure if Tatum develops his passing like he has if Kyrie stayed. This team was almost unwatchable when Kyrie was here.  I just don't want anyone to give Kyrie any ammo to be even better then he was. I want the Kyrie who's disinterested and can disappear for stretches.  Not the madman who hits everything.

You're saying if someone harassed at work continually, and you responded by flipping someone off you'd be fired? I don't think that's the case. I am a teacher, if I flipped a colleague off I'd certainly have a consequence, but I wouldn't be fired.

From the reports Kyrie some talking as well.  He reacted the same way the horrible fans were  screaming at him.  This kind of behavior does not belong anywhere on either side.

[Vermont Green]

We put these guys on a pedestal and expect abnormal emotional regulation, during an incredibly emotional basketball game. Though some here disagree, Kyrie is a human being with all of his faults. Two wrongs don't make a right, but let's get a complete view of the situation without focusing on one side.

And by the way, I can't stand Kyrie Irving (the media personality). The basketball player is pretty, pretty good.

I don't think it is too much to ask that professional athletes deal with unruly fans without flipping them the bird.

I don't understand how saying that is letting the unruly fans off the hook or whatever.  I think unruly fans should be ushered out by security.  I don't believe that obscene language by fans should be allowed.  I suspect that there are rules in every stadium that prohibit vulgar or obscene language by fans.  It is obviously hard to police this.

What you are actually saying, I think, is that if the fans act badly enough, that it somehow mitigates the players responsibility to act within the rules that exist for players.  That if some fans break the rules, that it is OK for the player to break the rules.  But that is like saying that if the player is a big enough jerk, then it is OK for fans to be obscene.  It doesn't work in either direction.  Fans shouldn't be obscene to players and players should not be obscene to fans.

Unfortunately for Kyrie, it is very easy to identify which player was obscene to the fans.  It is a lot harder to identify which specific fan was obscene to the player.  But if they did "catch" the fan being obscene, that fan would be escorted out.  I feel Kyrie should have been "escorted out".  Some fans may need to be escorted out also.  I am totally OK with that.

[nyceltsfan]

I'm not sure how many remember this:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/20638-paul-pierce-keeping-it-gangsta-in-atlanta

Apparently, this resulted in a $25k fine.  Would you say this situation is better, worse or the same as what Pierce did 14 years ago?  I would put it on the same plane, which should mean a fine of $30k-$40k, given inflation.

[Phantom255x]

What I'm curious to see is what happens if Kyrie does the same exact stuff in Game 2 (giving the fans blatant middle fingers, etc.). I mean if the league acts mum about it, then that's just basically telling players across the league that they could do whatever they want against the fans, maybe even retaliate physically and face minimal repercussions.

[kraidstar]

I don't get the "both sides" argument here.

Kyrie insinuated that Boston is racist last year as a means of deflecting criticism over his lies about staying with the team. This is a very, very nasty thing to do. Not trash talk bad. Real life bad.

He trivialized an important issue and slandered an entire city for personal gain. Had he taken responsibility for his actions the vitriol would be minimal. But he just keeps escalating.

The fans have every right to be angry, and the league should tell him to shut his lying mouth.

[LilRip]

Isn’t Kyrie a repeat offender by now? Plus, he flipped the fans off multiple times. 50k fine probably

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

We put these guys on a pedestal and expect abnormal emotional regulation, during an incredibly emotional basketball game. Though some here disagree, Kyrie is a human being with all of his faults. Two wrongs don't make a right, but let's get a complete view of the situation without focusing on one side.

And by the way, I can't stand Kyrie Irving (the media personality). The basketball player is pretty, pretty good.

I don't think it is too much to ask that professional athletes deal with unruly fans without flipping them the bird.

I don't understand how saying that is letting the unruly fans off the hook or whatever.  I think unruly fans should be ushered out by security.  I don't believe that obscene language by fans should be allowed.  I suspect that there are rules in every stadium that prohibit vulgar or obscene language by fans.  It is obviously hard to police this.

What you are actually saying, I think, is that if the fans act badly enough, that it somehow mitigates the players responsibility to act within the rules that exist for players.  That if some fans break the rules, that it is OK for the player to break the rules.  But that is like saying that if the player is a big enough jerk, then it is OK for fans to be obscene.  It doesn't work in either direction.  Fans shouldn't be obscene to players and players should not be obscene to fans.

Unfortunately for Kyrie, it is very easy to identify which player was obscene to the fans.  It is a lot harder to identify which specific fan was obscene to the player.  But if they did "catch" the fan being obscene, that fan would be escorted out.  I feel Kyrie should have been "escorted out".  Some fans may need to be escorted out also.  I am totally OK with that.

I think we agree. Neither side was right.

I guess I'm just less interested in getting Kyrie in trouble. I want to see the Nets at their best, and I think that the Celtics can beat them. I think its kind of a B move to push the league to suspend when fans weren't getting kicked out (if there were tens of fans removed from their seats, then I missed this, and my bad). Beat the best version of a squad, and the bragging rights seem more legit.

Going forward, I agree that Kyrie should be suspended. Going forward, remove the fans, regardless of how much $ they paid. Neither the fans, nor the player were held accountable. I think this can change going forward.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

I don't get the "both sides" argument here.

Kyrie insinuated that Boston is racist last year as a means of deflecting criticism over his lies about staying with the team. This is a very, very nasty thing to do. Not trash talk bad. Real life bad.

He trivialized an important issue and slandered an entire city for personal gain. Had he taken responsibility for his actions the vitriol would be minimal. But he just keeps escalating.

The fans have every right to be angry, and the league should tell him to shut his lying mouth.

I agree with you, though I think it's hard for me as a white guy to discredit a black person when listening to their experience on race. I'm ok doing so with regard to vaccines and the curvature of the earth. I never think it's a great look to tell black people what racism is/isn't, even if they are wrong.

Re: racist city- it's a pretty dumb statement. People are racist, not cities. One N word shouted from the balconies does not make Boston a racist city. I'll talk back and forth on a forum about this, but prob. won't say that to a black person. Doesn't have to do with being right or wrong. The optics just don't seem right.

[SHAQATTACK]

Isn’t Kyrie a repeat offender by now? Plus, he flipped the fans off multiple times. 50k fine probably

Seems to me some announcers said he did the “ double flip off “  ,  that case ….  2x15k. Plus he is a habitual offender of league rules involving fans .  On top of which this was Easter Sunday national playoff tv promotion , another bad look for the NBA ….as a family watchable sport. …..so they say.

personally, I would suspend him a game ,  because money doesn’t matter to this jerk. He laughs at 30-50k fine.   If he doesn’t like it ,  go to China Cry Baby .

Silver is weak on star players. 

[JohnBoy65]

So if Kyrie gets fined, should the same happen to identified fans? I don't know if anyone saw the video of Kyrie walking into the locker room at halftime. He was minding his own business and a fan yelled "You suck Kyrie!". Kyrie responded with a pretty vulgar response. Should there be some repercussion for that fan?