Rumor: Hornets forward Gordon Hayward wants change of scenery

[Celtics2021]

  The hate towards Hayward is a perfect example of the worst of Boston fans. So many blamed this guy for continuously getting injured. Dummies. These people should be asked , “ how would you like it if it kept happening to you?” Pathetic behavior. Bunch of losers giving real Celtic fans a bad name. I’m a Celtic fanatic and I hate any association with gross people like this.
   I was as frustrated as much as the next guy but the blame game is simply extremely nasty behavior from people that are probably pretty shameless in other walks of life, as well.

Nothing will ever top a certain subset of the fan base celebrating IT having to take vet minimum deals because he said he wanted his first big contract after putting up an All-NBA season but cooked his hip in the process.

I don't think it was a coincidence that the team turned over the entire medical and training staff the summer after Isaiah spent the last third of the season playing on an injury that maybe-sorta wasn't diagnosed properly (and he was never the same after). But, you know, Brinks Truck.....

There’s a big difference between Hayward and IT, although I agree with you about any of the “Brinks Truck” trolls.

Hayward opted out of a max deal, leaving a team that had gone to two conference finals in three years, one run of which he completely missed and the other of which he missed half, so he could get paid again.  I don’t fault him for the injuries, and I don’t want him to get hurt, but when he’s reportedly upset at not being in a featured role on a winning team AGAIN, then yeah, he’s going to come in for some deserved criticism.  He doesn’t recognize his own abilities at this point, and he’s lucky Charlotte didn’t in November 2020.

[Roy H.]

  The hate towards Hayward is a perfect example of the worst of Boston fans. So many blamed this guy for continuously getting injured. Dummies. These people should be asked , “ how would you like it if it kept happening to you?” Pathetic behavior. Bunch of losers giving real Celtic fans a bad name. I’m a Celtic fanatic and I hate any association with gross people like this.
   I was as frustrated as much as the next guy but the blame game is simply extremely nasty behavior from people that are probably pretty shameless in other walks of life, as well.

Nothing will ever top a certain subset of the fan base celebrating IT having to take vet minimum deals because he said he wanted his first big contract after putting up an All-NBA season but cooked his hip in the process.

I don't think it was a coincidence that the team turned over the entire medical and training staff the summer after Isaiah spent the last third of the season playing on an injury that maybe-sorta wasn't diagnosed properly (and he was never the same after). But, you know, Brinks Truck.....

There’s a big difference between Hayward and IT, although I agree with you about any of the “Brinks Truck” trolls.

Hayward opted out of a max deal, leaving a team that had gone to two conference finals in three years, one run of which he completely missed and the other of which he missed half, so he could get paid again.  I don’t fault him for the injuries, and I don’t want him to get hurt, but when he’s reportedly upset at not being in a featured role on a winning team AGAIN, then yeah, he’s going to come in for some deserved criticism.  He doesn’t recognize his own abilities at this point, and he’s lucky Charlotte didn’t in November 2020.

How much credibility do you give Jake Fischer of Bleacher Report?

I mean, he doesn't deserve the criticism if it's a made up rumor by a publication / reporter with extremely limited credibility, right?  If this isn't fiction from Fischer, then there's at least a strong likelihood that it's fiction planted by somebody with an agenda.  But, my guess is that's it's Fischer.

[Celtics2021]

  The hate towards Hayward is a perfect example of the worst of Boston fans. So many blamed this guy for continuously getting injured. Dummies. These people should be asked , “ how would you like it if it kept happening to you?” Pathetic behavior. Bunch of losers giving real Celtic fans a bad name. I’m a Celtic fanatic and I hate any association with gross people like this.
   I was as frustrated as much as the next guy but the blame game is simply extremely nasty behavior from people that are probably pretty shameless in other walks of life, as well.

Nothing will ever top a certain subset of the fan base celebrating IT having to take vet minimum deals because he said he wanted his first big contract after putting up an All-NBA season but cooked his hip in the process.

I don't think it was a coincidence that the team turned over the entire medical and training staff the summer after Isaiah spent the last third of the season playing on an injury that maybe-sorta wasn't diagnosed properly (and he was never the same after). But, you know, Brinks Truck.....

There’s a big difference between Hayward and IT, although I agree with you about any of the “Brinks Truck” trolls.

Hayward opted out of a max deal, leaving a team that had gone to two conference finals in three years, one run of which he completely missed and the other of which he missed half, so he could get paid again.  I don’t fault him for the injuries, and I don’t want him to get hurt, but when he’s reportedly upset at not being in a featured role on a winning team AGAIN, then yeah, he’s going to come in for some deserved criticism.  He doesn’t recognize his own abilities at this point, and he’s lucky Charlotte didn’t in November 2020.

How much credibility do you give Jake Fischer of Bleacher Report?

I mean, he doesn't deserve the criticism if it's a made up rumor by a publication / reporter with extremely limited credibility, right?  If this isn't fiction from Fischer, then there's at least a strong likelihood that it's fiction planted by somebody with an agenda.  But, my guess is that's it's Fischer.

I give Fischer some credibility.  I had given him less in the past, but he said something that I doubted several months ago (I don’t remember what at this point), so I went back through a couple years of tweets and stories, and he had more than one rumor that turned out to have been true in the subsequent weeks, or that other better sourced journalists later backed up.  I’m off Twitter now, so I can’t give examples.

Certainly could be planted, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true at the same time.

[cman88]

haywards run here was unfortunate. who knows what could've happened had he not gotten injured. That team got to game 7 against cleveland without him/kyrie. chances are we make it to the finals that year and make a run at golden state if everyone stays healthy.

I dont fault him for leaving to make $30million. Honestly, if he was on this team right now it would be an albatross contract.

[Surferdad]

haywards run here was unfortunate. who knows what could've happened had he not gotten injured. That team got to game 7 against cleveland without him/kyrie. chances are we make it to the finals that year and make a run at golden state if everyone stays healthy.

I dont fault him for leaving to make $30million. Honestly, if he was on this team right now it would be an albatross contract.

Just like Kemba's contract.   

I hope we're seeing the difference between Ainge and Stevens. Ainge stated repeatedly that his goal was to bring in top-talent. Now we see how "super-teams" are not necessarily the answer -- LAL, PHI and BKN being prime current examples. Stevens has been bringing in players that fit together and DEFEND. 

[Kernewek]

haywards run here was unfortunate. who knows what could've happened had he not gotten injured. That team got to game 7 against cleveland without him/kyrie. chances are we make it to the finals that year and make a run at golden state if everyone stays healthy.

I dont fault him for leaving to make $30million. Honestly, if he was on this team right now it would be an albatross contract.

Just like Kemba's contract.   

I hope we're seeing the difference between Ainge and Stevens. Ainge stated repeatedly that his goal was to bring in top-talent. Now we see how "super-teams" are not necessarily the answer -- LAL, PHI and BKN being prime current examples. Stevens has been bringing in players that fit together and DEFEND.

I think Ainge's last 'proper' top talent roster was Kyrie|Hayward|Horford and that lasted approximately 10 minutes. After that it was always trying to put a plaster on an arterial injury.

Stevens definitely doesn't have the same fetish for scoring point guards that Danny did, though. And that's a positive.

[Vermont Green]

I harbor no bad feelings towards Hayward based on his time in Boston but I have entirely moved on.  He will never play to his $30M contract and even if he did, he has no role on our team.  We already have two front line $30M per year wings who are both much better than Hayward will be the rest of his career.  We don't need another.

I am not even sure that Hayward could be a productive bench wing for us at this point.  Durability continues to be a very real issue for him.  So even if he were bought out and was available at a representative bench wing contract, I still don't see how he fits.

I hope he finds health and a good fit on a team somewhere but he is entirely irrelevant in terms of the Celtics at this point.

[Moranis]

3 team trade

CHA - Westbrook, THT, Saric, Lakers 26 1st (lotto)
LAL - Paul, Oubre, Crowder
PHO - Hayward, Rozier, Lakers 28 1st (lotto)

[slamtheking]

3 team trade

CHA - Westbrook, THT, Saric, Lakers 26 1st (lotto)
LAL - Paul, Oubre, Crowder
PHO - Hayward, Rozier, Lakers 28 1st (lotto)

so Lakers get the most productive player in this deal (Paul) and 2 other effective rotation players while giving up an ineffective albatross contract, a mediocre prospect and yet another Philly pick that didn't live up to expectations?  Charlotte gets hosed.  Phx gets hosed as well - Hayward can't stay healthy and Rozier is not nearly enough to make up for what they're giving up.

blatant pro-Laker deal

[Kernewek]

3 team trade

CHA - Westbrook, THT, Saric, Lakers 26 1st (lotto)
LAL - Paul, Oubre, Crowder
PHO - Hayward, Rozier, Lakers 28 1st (lotto)

so Lakers get the most productive player in this deal (Paul) and 2 other effective rotation players while giving up an ineffective albatross contract, a mediocre prospect and yet another Philly pick that didn't live up to expectations?  Charlotte gets hosed.  Phx gets hosed as well - Hayward can't stay healthy and Rozier is not nearly enough to make up for what they're giving up.

blatant pro-Laker deal

I can't really believe I'm saying this, but Chris Paul the player probably doesn't help the Lakers very much (although the addition by subtraction is good).

[Vermont Green]

3 team trade

CHA - Westbrook, THT, Saric, Lakers 26 1st (lotto)
LAL - Paul, Oubre, Crowder
PHO - Hayward, Rozier, Lakers 28 1st (lotto)

so Lakers get the most productive player in this deal (Paul) and 2 other effective rotation players while giving up an ineffective albatross contract, a mediocre prospect and yet another Philly pick that didn't live up to expectations?  Charlotte gets hosed.  Phx gets hosed as well - Hayward can't stay healthy and Rozier is not nearly enough to make up for what they're giving up.

blatant pro-Laker deal

I can't really believe I'm saying this, but Chris Paul the player probably doesn't help the Lakers very much (although the addition by subtraction is good).

I think Chris Paul helps the Lakers a lot in the right context.  That context being that Davis is healthy.  LeBron, Chris Paul, and a healthy Davis is formidable and much better than the same with Westbrook.  If Davis isn't healthy, it doesn't matter.

Chris Paul has been "untradeable" before due to contract and he still was traded but I don't see how PHO can move him and come out as a better team.  His contract is complicated, not fully guaranteed in 2023-24 or 2024-25.  They really only have get through next season and then they could have some options.  I see no reason not to run this back again for at least one more season.

[Moranis]

3 team trade

CHA - Westbrook, THT, Saric, Lakers 26 1st (lotto)
LAL - Paul, Oubre, Crowder
PHO - Hayward, Rozier, Lakers 28 1st (lotto)

so Lakers get the most productive player in this deal (Paul) and 2 other effective rotation players while giving up an ineffective albatross contract, a mediocre prospect and yet another Philly pick that didn't live up to expectations?  Charlotte gets hosed.  Phx gets hosed as well - Hayward can't stay healthy and Rozier is not nearly enough to make up for what they're giving up.

blatant pro-Laker deal

I can't really believe I'm saying this, but Chris Paul the player probably doesn't help the Lakers very much (although the addition by subtraction is good).

I think Chris Paul helps the Lakers a lot in the right context.  That context being that Davis is healthy.  LeBron, Chris Paul, and a healthy Davis is formidable and much better than the same with Westbrook.  If Davis isn't healthy, it doesn't matter.

Chris Paul has been "untradeable" before due to contract and he still was traded but I don't see how PHO can move him and come out as a better team.  His contract is complicated, not fully guaranteed in 2023-24 or 2024-25.  They really only have get through next season and then they could have some options.  I see no reason not to run this back again for at least one more season.

Chris Paul just turned 37, his time as a difference maker is over.  He is a poor defender at this point.  He can still lead an offense and hit open shots, but he is much more a mega-role player than top end guy at this point and that is only going to get worse.  He has a big contract.  I don't think there would be a big market for him if the Suns put him on the block at all.  At this point 28 year old Rozier is a much better defender, he is a more versatile offensive player, and he has much better contract.  That makes him a much better long term fit with Booker, Bridges, and Ayton for the Suns.  Hayward would essentially fill the Crowder role for a year.  And as we've seen this year, Phoenix isn't going to contend for a title with Paul.  He is too old and no one else on that team is truly good enough at this point.  Rozier and Hayward keep them relevant though and the pick they get from the Lakers could be a nice asset down the line.

The Hornets are basically doing a salary reset, picking up a nice young player (THT) and a draft pick.  They can either use Westbrook to bring in some interest or just flat out buy him out and waive him.  This is about clearing salary for them so they can have a couple of shots at cap space before LaMelo is extended. 

The Lakers sell out their remaining draft picks for one last go next year with Lebron, Davis, and Paul, while also adding some bench guys.

[Who]

Chris Paul has been "untradeable" before due to contract and he still was traded but I don't see how PHO can move him and come out as a better team.  His contract is complicated, not fully guaranteed in 2023-24 or 2024-25.  They really only have get through next season and then they could have some options. I see no reason not to run this back again for at least one more season.

Me either. The Suns were too good to blow it up. Run it back and try again next season.

Even if CP3 drops off, so what? You got three young stars (one star, two quasi stars) in Booker, Bridges and Ayton that keep growing. Let them grow and see if they can make up whatever difference there is.

[dannyboy35]

Posted about Hayward a few days.

It was contingent on him accepting a reduced role and signing for the mid-level when his contract expired.

If this report is correct, he wants to depart Charlotte for similar reasons he left Boston. Charlotte tried to feature him, but it’s tough to feature an oft-injured player especially when you acquire a prospect like Lamelo and have a young Miles Bridges trying to outgrow a 3rd-4th scorer role.

Hayward’s contract with 2 years $60M left is difficult trade. If he still wants to be a primary/secondary scorer, he’s limited to a select few teams and is further limited if he wants to be on a playoff team. If he could stay healthy, he can still be a good tertiary player on a playoff team like the Jazz or Lakers, but his injury history and contract make him less palatable.

Why trade for Hayward at 2-$60M, when Kevin Love and Harrison Barnes are available for much cheaper and a year less unless you’re getting rid of a contract like Westbrook? (why would the Hornets do it? Simple, they save $15M and can have all that space for 2023-24)

    Like everybody says and knows the dude has to not have the incredible misfortune in health he’s had. Last seen healthy for a stretch he’s an all star LEVEL player. He may or may not make the team and he’d have to be in that perfect role but at worst he’s next tier down.
    In my mind he SHOULD feel he’s that good . That’s actually extremely mentally healthy. That means he still doesn’t believe in black cats and such. I think this can be presented in e turkey different ways . One paints him as incredibly selfish and in denial the other a guy that still believes in himself and is very driven.
  If it was me , I’m not the same player. I’m not driving the lane as hard. I’m watching my feet when I land etc etc.
   I have no ill will to the guy . I love a comeback story. HEALTHY he could still be an amazing I guess third star I’d say. But im not Gordon so I KNOW I don’t think he can stay healthy. But I DO believe in bad luck and another big one nobody ever talks about as a possibility in injured players is BAD DOCTORS.

[slamtheking]

3 team trade

CHA - Westbrook, THT, Saric, Lakers 26 1st (lotto)
LAL - Paul, Oubre, Crowder
PHO - Hayward, Rozier, Lakers 28 1st (lotto)

so Lakers get the most productive player in this deal (Paul) and 2 other effective rotation players while giving up an ineffective albatross contract, a mediocre prospect and yet another Philly pick that didn't live up to expectations?  Charlotte gets hosed.  Phx gets hosed as well - Hayward can't stay healthy and Rozier is not nearly enough to make up for what they're giving up.

blatant pro-Laker deal

I can't really believe I'm saying this, but Chris Paul the player probably doesn't help the Lakers very much (although the addition by subtraction is good).

I think Chris Paul helps the Lakers a lot in the right context.  That context being that Davis is healthy.  LeBron, Chris Paul, and a healthy Davis is formidable and much better than the same with Westbrook.  If Davis isn't healthy, it doesn't matter.

Chris Paul has been "untradeable" before due to contract and he still was traded but I don't see how PHO can move him and come out as a better team.  His contract is complicated, not fully guaranteed in 2023-24 or 2024-25.  They really only have get through next season and then they could have some options.  I see no reason not to run this back again for at least one more season.

Chris Paul just turned 37, his time as a difference maker is over.  He is a poor defender at this point.  He can still lead an offense and hit open shots, but he is much more a mega-role player than top end guy at this point and that is only going to get worse.  He has a big contract.  I don't think there would be a big market for him if the Suns put him on the block at all.  At this point 28 year old Rozier is a much better defender, he is a more versatile offensive player, and he has much better contract.  That makes him a much better long term fit with Booker, Bridges, and Ayton for the Suns.  Hayward would essentially fill the Crowder role for a year.  And as we've seen this year, Phoenix isn't going to contend for a title with Paul.  He is too old and no one else on that team is truly good enough at this point.  Rozier and Hayward keep them relevant though and the pick they get from the Lakers could be a nice asset down the line.

The Hornets are basically doing a salary reset, picking up a nice young player (THT) and a draft pick.  They can either use Westbrook to bring in some interest or just flat out buy him out and waive him.  This is about clearing salary for them so they can have a couple of shots at cap space before LaMelo is extended. 

The Lakers sell out their remaining draft picks for one last go next year with Lebron, Davis, and Paul, while also adding some bench guys.

this is absolutely flawed reasoning.  THT is ok as a prospect but Rozier is the better player.  Buying out Westbrook?  throwing all that money away for a player you think they'd just dump while you think the Lakers should be able to get good players for him?  boggles the mind.