Rumor: Hornets forward Gordon Hayward wants change of scenery

[Quetzalcoatl]

3 team trade

CHA - Westbrook, THT, Saric, Lakers 26 1st (lotto)
LAL - Paul, Oubre, Crowder
PHO - Hayward, Rozier, Lakers 28 1st (lotto)

What about this:

Lakers get: Chris Paul, Gordon Hayward, Kai Jones
Hornets get: Westbrook, Horton-Tucker
Suns get: Terry Rozier

It would cap out the Lakers forever with no picks and they would all be in street clothes by the play in game

[celticsclay]

Seems lakers expect Westbrook back. One of their key questions to coaching candidates is how they will use Westbrook in their offense. Believe vogul did a poor job utilizing him.

[Big333223]

3 team trade

CHA - Westbrook, THT, Saric, Lakers 26 1st (lotto)
LAL - Paul, Oubre, Crowder
PHO - Hayward, Rozier, Lakers 28 1st (lotto)

so Lakers get the most productive player in this deal (Paul) and 2 other effective rotation players while giving up an ineffective albatross contract, a mediocre prospect and yet another Philly pick that didn't live up to expectations?  Charlotte gets hosed.  Phx gets hosed as well - Hayward can't stay healthy and Rozier is not nearly enough to make up for what they're giving up.

blatant pro-Laker deal

I can't really believe I'm saying this, but Chris Paul the player probably doesn't help the Lakers very much (although the addition by subtraction is good).

I think Chris Paul helps the Lakers a lot in the right context.  That context being that Davis is healthy.  LeBron, Chris Paul, and a healthy Davis is formidable and much better than the same with Westbrook.  If Davis isn't healthy, it doesn't matter.

Chris Paul has been "untradeable" before due to contract and he still was traded but I don't see how PHO can move him and come out as a better team.  His contract is complicated, not fully guaranteed in 2023-24 or 2024-25.  They really only have get through next season and then they could have some options.  I see no reason not to run this back again for at least one more season.

Chris Paul just turned 37, his time as a difference maker is over.  He is a poor defender at this point.  He can still lead an offense and hit open shots, but he is much more a mega-role player than top end guy at this point and that is only going to get worse.  He has a big contract.  I don't think there would be a big market for him if the Suns put him on the block at all.  At this point 28 year old Rozier is a much better defender, he is a more versatile offensive player, and he has much better contract.  That makes him a much better long term fit with Booker, Bridges, and Ayton for the Suns.  Hayward would essentially fill the Crowder role for a year.  And as we've seen this year, Phoenix isn't going to contend for a title with Paul.  He is too old and no one else on that team is truly good enough at this point.  Rozier and Hayward keep them relevant though and the pick they get from the Lakers could be a nice asset down the line.

The Hornets are basically doing a salary reset, picking up a nice young player (THT) and a draft pick.  They can either use Westbrook to bring in some interest or just flat out buy him out and waive him.  This is about clearing salary for them so they can have a couple of shots at cap space before LaMelo is extended. 

The Lakers sell out their remaining draft picks for one last go next year with Lebron, Davis, and Paul, while also adding some bench guys.

this is absolutely flawed reasoning.  THT is ok as a prospect but Rozier is the better player.  Buying out Westbrook?  throwing all that money away for a player you think they'd just dump while you think the Lakers should be able to get good players for him?  boggles the mind.

Yeah, I keep seeing these Westbrook deals that make no sense to me. No one wants him. The Lakers would likely have to pay someone else to be rid of him. I don't see them getting a player back in return.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I still love Gordon Hayward and think he's a perfect fit next to the Js at this point in his career. I hope he can come back to Boston.

[Moranis]

3 team trade

CHA - Westbrook, THT, Saric, Lakers 26 1st (lotto)
LAL - Paul, Oubre, Crowder
PHO - Hayward, Rozier, Lakers 28 1st (lotto)

so Lakers get the most productive player in this deal (Paul) and 2 other effective rotation players while giving up an ineffective albatross contract, a mediocre prospect and yet another Philly pick that didn't live up to expectations?  Charlotte gets hosed.  Phx gets hosed as well - Hayward can't stay healthy and Rozier is not nearly enough to make up for what they're giving up.

blatant pro-Laker deal

I can't really believe I'm saying this, but Chris Paul the player probably doesn't help the Lakers very much (although the addition by subtraction is good).

I think Chris Paul helps the Lakers a lot in the right context.  That context being that Davis is healthy.  LeBron, Chris Paul, and a healthy Davis is formidable and much better than the same with Westbrook.  If Davis isn't healthy, it doesn't matter.

Chris Paul has been "untradeable" before due to contract and he still was traded but I don't see how PHO can move him and come out as a better team.  His contract is complicated, not fully guaranteed in 2023-24 or 2024-25.  They really only have get through next season and then they could have some options.  I see no reason not to run this back again for at least one more season.

Chris Paul just turned 37, his time as a difference maker is over.  He is a poor defender at this point.  He can still lead an offense and hit open shots, but he is much more a mega-role player than top end guy at this point and that is only going to get worse.  He has a big contract.  I don't think there would be a big market for him if the Suns put him on the block at all.  At this point 28 year old Rozier is a much better defender, he is a more versatile offensive player, and he has much better contract.  That makes him a much better long term fit with Booker, Bridges, and Ayton for the Suns.  Hayward would essentially fill the Crowder role for a year.  And as we've seen this year, Phoenix isn't going to contend for a title with Paul.  He is too old and no one else on that team is truly good enough at this point.  Rozier and Hayward keep them relevant though and the pick they get from the Lakers could be a nice asset down the line.

The Hornets are basically doing a salary reset, picking up a nice young player (THT) and a draft pick.  They can either use Westbrook to bring in some interest or just flat out buy him out and waive him.  This is about clearing salary for them so they can have a couple of shots at cap space before LaMelo is extended. 

The Lakers sell out their remaining draft picks for one last go next year with Lebron, Davis, and Paul, while also adding some bench guys.

this is absolutely flawed reasoning.  THT is ok as a prospect but Rozier is the better player.  Buying out Westbrook?  throwing all that money away for a player you think they'd just dump while you think the Lakers should be able to get good players for him?  boggles the mind.

Yeah, I keep seeing these Westbrook deals that make no sense to me. No one wants him. The Lakers would likely have to pay someone else to be rid of him. I don't see them getting a player back in return.

He has a massive contract, but it is just 1 year.  There is value for teams to get out of longer big contracts earlier, especially when they get a 1st round pick.

[gouki88]

I still love Gordon Hayward and think he's a perfect fit next to the Js at this point in his career. I hope he can come back to Boston.

Not for the money he’s currently on, sadly.

[tenn_smoothie]

I still love Gordon Hayward and think he's a perfect fit next to the Js at this point in his career.

Agreed ....... except we don't need yet another injury-prone player on our roster.

And if they are not injury-prone before they get to Boston, they will be soon enough.

[celticsclay]

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/lakers-asking-coaching-candidates-how-they-plan-to-use-russell-westbrook-if-hired-per-report/amp/

How long we doing the Westbrook fantasy trades. Even lakers have stopped. Yes I am salty from the game

[ozgod]

I still love Gordon Hayward and think he's a perfect fit next to the Js at this point in his career. I hope he can come back to Boston.

Not for the money he’s currently on, sadly.

I would take Hayward for a $5m prove it deal in a heartbeat. Might even think about it at $10m. I think he fits the way the team wants to play perfectly. But $30m? No way.

[gouki88]

I still love Gordon Hayward and think he's a perfect fit next to the Js at this point in his career. I hope he can come back to Boston.

Not for the money he’s currently on, sadly.

I would take Hayward for a $5m prove it deal in a heartbeat. Might even think about it at $10m. I think he fits the way the team wants to play perfectly. But $30m? No way.

Yeah, with his current (or rather continuous) injury issues he is no more than a $15m/season kind of player... which is half what he is currently on. Maybe if he got bought out, but that does not seem likely at all to me

[Big333223]

3 team trade

CHA - Westbrook, THT, Saric, Lakers 26 1st (lotto)
LAL - Paul, Oubre, Crowder
PHO - Hayward, Rozier, Lakers 28 1st (lotto)

so Lakers get the most productive player in this deal (Paul) and 2 other effective rotation players while giving up an ineffective albatross contract, a mediocre prospect and yet another Philly pick that didn't live up to expectations?  Charlotte gets hosed.  Phx gets hosed as well - Hayward can't stay healthy and Rozier is not nearly enough to make up for what they're giving up.

blatant pro-Laker deal

I can't really believe I'm saying this, but Chris Paul the player probably doesn't help the Lakers very much (although the addition by subtraction is good).

I think Chris Paul helps the Lakers a lot in the right context.  That context being that Davis is healthy.  LeBron, Chris Paul, and a healthy Davis is formidable and much better than the same with Westbrook.  If Davis isn't healthy, it doesn't matter.

Chris Paul has been "untradeable" before due to contract and he still was traded but I don't see how PHO can move him and come out as a better team.  His contract is complicated, not fully guaranteed in 2023-24 or 2024-25.  They really only have get through next season and then they could have some options.  I see no reason not to run this back again for at least one more season.

Chris Paul just turned 37, his time as a difference maker is over.  He is a poor defender at this point.  He can still lead an offense and hit open shots, but he is much more a mega-role player than top end guy at this point and that is only going to get worse.  He has a big contract.  I don't think there would be a big market for him if the Suns put him on the block at all.  At this point 28 year old Rozier is a much better defender, he is a more versatile offensive player, and he has much better contract.  That makes him a much better long term fit with Booker, Bridges, and Ayton for the Suns.  Hayward would essentially fill the Crowder role for a year.  And as we've seen this year, Phoenix isn't going to contend for a title with Paul.  He is too old and no one else on that team is truly good enough at this point.  Rozier and Hayward keep them relevant though and the pick they get from the Lakers could be a nice asset down the line.

The Hornets are basically doing a salary reset, picking up a nice young player (THT) and a draft pick.  They can either use Westbrook to bring in some interest or just flat out buy him out and waive him.  This is about clearing salary for them so they can have a couple of shots at cap space before LaMelo is extended. 

The Lakers sell out their remaining draft picks for one last go next year with Lebron, Davis, and Paul, while also adding some bench guys.

this is absolutely flawed reasoning.  THT is ok as a prospect but Rozier is the better player.  Buying out Westbrook?  throwing all that money away for a player you think they'd just dump while you think the Lakers should be able to get good players for him?  boggles the mind.

Yeah, I keep seeing these Westbrook deals that make no sense to me. No one wants him. The Lakers would likely have to pay someone else to be rid of him. I don't see them getting a player back in return.

He has a massive contract, but it is just 1 year.  There is value for teams to get out of longer big contracts earlier, especially when they get a 1st round pick.

I agree there is value in getting off a bad deal early but Hayward is a versatile forward with good size and can shoot 3's. Hayward's injury problems are a concern but they could get a real player for him. Taking on Westbrook doesn't make any sense.

[Moranis]

3 team trade

CHA - Westbrook, THT, Saric, Lakers 26 1st (lotto)
LAL - Paul, Oubre, Crowder
PHO - Hayward, Rozier, Lakers 28 1st (lotto)

so Lakers get the most productive player in this deal (Paul) and 2 other effective rotation players while giving up an ineffective albatross contract, a mediocre prospect and yet another Philly pick that didn't live up to expectations?  Charlotte gets hosed.  Phx gets hosed as well - Hayward can't stay healthy and Rozier is not nearly enough to make up for what they're giving up.

blatant pro-Laker deal

I can't really believe I'm saying this, but Chris Paul the player probably doesn't help the Lakers very much (although the addition by subtraction is good).

I think Chris Paul helps the Lakers a lot in the right context.  That context being that Davis is healthy.  LeBron, Chris Paul, and a healthy Davis is formidable and much better than the same with Westbrook.  If Davis isn't healthy, it doesn't matter.

Chris Paul has been "untradeable" before due to contract and he still was traded but I don't see how PHO can move him and come out as a better team.  His contract is complicated, not fully guaranteed in 2023-24 or 2024-25.  They really only have get through next season and then they could have some options.  I see no reason not to run this back again for at least one more season.

Chris Paul just turned 37, his time as a difference maker is over.  He is a poor defender at this point.  He can still lead an offense and hit open shots, but he is much more a mega-role player than top end guy at this point and that is only going to get worse.  He has a big contract.  I don't think there would be a big market for him if the Suns put him on the block at all.  At this point 28 year old Rozier is a much better defender, he is a more versatile offensive player, and he has much better contract.  That makes him a much better long term fit with Booker, Bridges, and Ayton for the Suns.  Hayward would essentially fill the Crowder role for a year.  And as we've seen this year, Phoenix isn't going to contend for a title with Paul.  He is too old and no one else on that team is truly good enough at this point.  Rozier and Hayward keep them relevant though and the pick they get from the Lakers could be a nice asset down the line.

The Hornets are basically doing a salary reset, picking up a nice young player (THT) and a draft pick.  They can either use Westbrook to bring in some interest or just flat out buy him out and waive him.  This is about clearing salary for them so they can have a couple of shots at cap space before LaMelo is extended. 

The Lakers sell out their remaining draft picks for one last go next year with Lebron, Davis, and Paul, while also adding some bench guys.

this is absolutely flawed reasoning.  THT is ok as a prospect but Rozier is the better player.  Buying out Westbrook?  throwing all that money away for a player you think they'd just dump while you think the Lakers should be able to get good players for him?  boggles the mind.

Yeah, I keep seeing these Westbrook deals that make no sense to me. No one wants him. The Lakers would likely have to pay someone else to be rid of him. I don't see them getting a player back in return.

He has a massive contract, but it is just 1 year.  There is value for teams to get out of longer big contracts earlier, especially when they get a 1st round pick.

I agree there is value in getting off a bad deal early but Hayward is a versatile forward with good size and can shoot 3's. Hayward's injury problems are a concern but they could get a real player for him. Taking on Westbrook doesn't make any sense.

Could they get a real player for him?  I'm not really sure about that at least not one without major contract issues of his own (like say Davis Bertans).  I don't think Hayward has a lot of value.  He is unreliable physically, plus he is 32 and will be starting year 13.  Even if he played all 82 games, he isn't going to produce like he once did.  He can still play, he just isn't anywhere near a 30 million a year player.

[slamtheking]

3 team trade

CHA - Westbrook, THT, Saric, Lakers 26 1st (lotto)
LAL - Paul, Oubre, Crowder
PHO - Hayward, Rozier, Lakers 28 1st (lotto)

so Lakers get the most productive player in this deal (Paul) and 2 other effective rotation players while giving up an ineffective albatross contract, a mediocre prospect and yet another Philly pick that didn't live up to expectations?  Charlotte gets hosed.  Phx gets hosed as well - Hayward can't stay healthy and Rozier is not nearly enough to make up for what they're giving up.

blatant pro-Laker deal

I can't really believe I'm saying this, but Chris Paul the player probably doesn't help the Lakers very much (although the addition by subtraction is good).

I think Chris Paul helps the Lakers a lot in the right context.  That context being that Davis is healthy.  LeBron, Chris Paul, and a healthy Davis is formidable and much better than the same with Westbrook.  If Davis isn't healthy, it doesn't matter.

Chris Paul has been "untradeable" before due to contract and he still was traded but I don't see how PHO can move him and come out as a better team.  His contract is complicated, not fully guaranteed in 2023-24 or 2024-25.  They really only have get through next season and then they could have some options.  I see no reason not to run this back again for at least one more season.

Chris Paul just turned 37, his time as a difference maker is over.  He is a poor defender at this point.  He can still lead an offense and hit open shots, but he is much more a mega-role player than top end guy at this point and that is only going to get worse.  He has a big contract.  I don't think there would be a big market for him if the Suns put him on the block at all.  At this point 28 year old Rozier is a much better defender, he is a more versatile offensive player, and he has much better contract.  That makes him a much better long term fit with Booker, Bridges, and Ayton for the Suns.  Hayward would essentially fill the Crowder role for a year.  And as we've seen this year, Phoenix isn't going to contend for a title with Paul.  He is too old and no one else on that team is truly good enough at this point.  Rozier and Hayward keep them relevant though and the pick they get from the Lakers could be a nice asset down the line.

The Hornets are basically doing a salary reset, picking up a nice young player (THT) and a draft pick.  They can either use Westbrook to bring in some interest or just flat out buy him out and waive him.  This is about clearing salary for them so they can have a couple of shots at cap space before LaMelo is extended. 

The Lakers sell out their remaining draft picks for one last go next year with Lebron, Davis, and Paul, while also adding some bench guys.

this is absolutely flawed reasoning.  THT is ok as a prospect but Rozier is the better player.  Buying out Westbrook?  throwing all that money away for a player you think they'd just dump while you think the Lakers should be able to get good players for him?  boggles the mind.

Yeah, I keep seeing these Westbrook deals that make no sense to me. No one wants him. The Lakers would likely have to pay someone else to be rid of him. I don't see them getting a player back in return.

He has a massive contract, but it is just 1 year.  There is value for teams to get out of longer big contracts earlier, especially when they get a 1st round pick.

I agree there is value in getting off a bad deal early but Hayward is a versatile forward with good size and can shoot 3's. Hayward's injury problems are a concern but they could get a real player for him. Taking on Westbrook doesn't make any sense.

Could they get a real player for him? I'm not really sure about that at least not one without major contract issues of his own (like say Davis Bertans).  I don't think Hayward has a lot of value.  He is unreliable physically, plus he is 32 and will be starting year 13.  Even if he played all 82 games, he isn't going to produce like he once did.  He can still play, he just isn't anywhere near a 30 million a year player.

you're kidding right?  I know a team that gave up a solid rotation player, a prospect, a first rounder and a delayed pick swap for a far lesser player just this season.  Hayward should be able to get back more than a late first, mediocre prospect and a grossly overpaid player that doesn't contribute to winning no matter what franchise he plays for.

[celticsclay]

I think a pretty key thing people really keep overlooking is that the hornets are probably in their best situation in at least ten years, maybe longer. I know last year was their most wins in at least 6 seasons. Ball is the best prospect they have had, since what Larry Johnson? Bridges could be close to an all star. Rozier and oubre are solid starters. They as a franchise literally can not afford to take Westbrook in and buy him out. If they do trade hayward, it is going to be for a guy that at least theoretically can help them like a turner, hield or brogdon. Or maybe try to pry off capela or john Collins. They are not burning a year a of ball, bridges, Washington etc to buy out Westbrook for 40 million. They are risking losing the little good will they have with fans, how ball feels about the franchise and maybe even stir up echos of relocation. There is a .5% this happens just cause Jordan is arguably worst talent evaluator in the the nba and may think Westbrook is still a star, but please don’t discount all these other factors. I put it at absolute zero the hornets get Westbrook and buy him out.

[footey]

If Horford wasn't playing so well, I'd try to figure out how to trade for Hayward using his contract. But as things stand, Al has more value for our team that Hayward, who wouldn't start, but be an amazing 6th man if healthy.

What could have been.....