Timelord (Woj: To play limited minutes in Game 3)

[Roy H.]

The Celts listed this as a "partial left knee meniscectomy".  That means a piece, but not all, of the meniscus was removed, I believe.

[smokeablount]

Going for the 1 or 2 seed should CLEARLY be out now.  We need to strategically rest players to attempt to gain a favorable first round match up.  Good news is Milwaukee will be difficult to catch and Miami has an easy schedule if they can right the ship.

Simple facts are Brooklyn will very likely be 7/8 and Rob is more important to our team than home court.

Signing a big like WCS or Thon Maker (or a miraculously healthy Baynes) seems like a no-brainer (what if Al or Theis get banged up?).  I know it's sacrilege, but still prefer Freedom as a break glass guy to Green Kornet.

great news with Timelord if he's back to playing in that 4-6 week window.

with the seeding, anywhere in the top 4 is pretty much a lock but #1 is looking like the best slot for avoiding Brooklyn for those concerned about that matchup. 
- Brooklyn has gotten to #8 in the standings and is very unlikely to slide back to #9 beneath either Charlotte or Atlanta.
- At the #8 seed in the play in round, they play the #7 which is looking like Cleveland.  While not impossible for Cleveland to win that matchup, it's highly unlikely so that puts Brooklyn in as the #7 seed -- takes on whoever is at #2.
- Next round, winner of Brooklyn and the #2 seed gets to take on the winner of the 3-6 matchup.  that would be any of Miami, Mil, Phil against Toronto.  figure odds are that Toronto loses. 
- C's as #1 would be up against the Cavs in all likelihood unless Atlanta or Charlotte upset them in that matchup for the #8 seed.  C's should be any of those teams without Timelord. 
- Second round, C's get the winner of the 4/5 which would likely be Miami, Mil or Phil against Chi.  Chi most likely loses that series so second round C's face Miami, Mil or Phil where Timelord would really be needed.  Miami possibly less so than against Mil or Phil but we stand a much better chance with all hands on deck (obviously).

That's the likely situation for those concerned with avoiding Brooklyn as long as possible (or completely if the hopes are for someone else to knock them off).

Or #4. A silver lining to losing to Miami tonight would be that it positions Miami well to finish as the one seed and if we finish 4th, I think we can potentially win 2 rounds even without Timelord.

[Hoopvortex]

when this conversation shifts to surgery, does anyone know what type?

i had arthroscopic micro fracture surgery for my meniscus seven years ago (can’t remember if i had a tear or had just worn it down from too much running), and i was back to full time running in six weeks with no issues.

is this an option for rob or is “surgery” referencing something more invasive?

I suspect it would depend on the type of tear but meniscus surgery, whether it's repair or menisectomy is usually arthroscopic. All depends on the type of tear and whether they decide to sew it or remove part of it to improve the stability of the joint. The initial arthroscopy will help them decide what they need to do because they need to see what the tear looks like, they can't really tell that from just an MRI.

I understand the basics of this, but do you have any idea of the long-term affects of repair vs. removal?  Is full removal what leads to the dreaded "bone on bone"?

Yes, people who have total menisectomies usually become candidates for osteoarthritis, because the purpose of the meniscus (as with most cartilage in the body) is to reduce the friction when the joint articulates (rotates or flexes). When it tears it causes pain and reduces knee stability and range of motion.

Menisectomy can remove part of all of the meniscus, depending on what type of tear it is and where it is. Most menisectomies would be partial where they would trim away the part of the meniscus that is torn because there is no prospect of it healing (usually for medial meniscus tears where there's no blood flow to that part of the joint). The preferred option would still be to sew it but depending on where it is it may not be easy to do so via arthroscopy and they may just decide to trim.

Total menisectomies almost always lead to osteoarthritis, because then the friction is the articular cartilage (at the bottom of the patella, that would normally rub against the meniscus) is rubbing against the top of the tibia when you flex and rotate your knee. Over years that articular cartilage wears down (like a brake pad) and when it wears out you get the is the bone-on-bone that can cause bone spurs to develop which then causes significant pain. Then you are a candidate for a knee arthroplasty (replacement). Like my dad, he has had lots of little meniscus tears in his left knee, which was never stable to begin with because he suffered a broken patella slipping on the ice in Philly 20 years ago so he may be looking at one in the next 5-10 years or so if his osteoarthritis continues to develop.

That's very unlikely for Rob - it's usually something that would be done in older patients as part of a knee arthroplasty (replacement). But even partial menisectomies increase the risk of osteoarthritis, as does suffering a tear and leaving it untreated. The risk factor is a bit lower than total though. But Rob, like a lot of basketball players that rely on explosiveness, will always be at risk of osteoarthritis when he gets older.

If it is indeed a lateral meniscus tear, the chance of having to do a menisectomy is more minimal than if it was a medial tear, because a) blood flow to the lateral part of the meniscus means it has a great chance to heal on its own; and b) it's easier for orthopods to get to the meniscus to repair it. So assuming that is indeed the case he's got a great chance at a full and quick recovery (though given his other knee issues in the past they may decide to play it safe with him and hold him out longer than needed to make sure he has max stability in his knee when he returns).

Meniscus surgery does not necessarily involve a meniscectomy. Orthopedists distinguish six types of tears, and it depends on which type of tear there is as well as how badly torn the meniscus is. In some situations it is appropriate to stitch the tissue together and let the fibrous bits bind to one another for healing, or simply form scar tissue, without needing to cut anything out.

I did mention that in an earlier post. In the case of my tear it was appropriate to just let it heal naturally, although I was given the option to have it stitched together as well.

There seems to be some confusion about anatomy and terminology in this thread.

There are two menisci in each knee, a lateral and a medial. Each meniscus is like a slice of orange. The outer parts of each meniscus have the best blood supply, in other words where the rind of the orange would be. "Outer" in this case does NOT equate to "lateral"; in fact it's mostly on the medial side of the medial meniscus where it gets the best circulation.

It is NOT the case that the lateral meniscus has a better blood supply than the medial.

Here's where I got the information from. I took my father here for an appointment a few years ago.



https://www.thesteadmanclinic.com/patient-education/knee/meniscus-injuries

Yes, that is completely consistent with how I understand it. I did not intend my post as a correction of yours, but rather as a correction to various misstatements in this thread.

[Hoopvortex]

You would think with the nickname Timelord, that he could've manipulated the recovery time table more in his favor.

He has already done this, but the rest of us need to wait 3-5 weeks to find out.

🙀😹😜

[Hoopvortex]

The Celts listed this as a "partial left knee meniscectomy".  That means a piece, but not all, of the meniscus was removed, I believe.

Yes, exactly.

It’s proving difficult to get details, but there’s a good chance that this will not become a chronic issue.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Doubt he can come back that quick with conditioning and all..that’s why a backup good center is important

Doesn’t the 4-6 week timeline include conditioning usually ? I can’t imagine he won’t start PT until week 6 for example. Should be once the swelling goes down..?

I'd imagine. He should be back in the gym in two weeks or so and from there it will depend how long until he is at full strength. With him only needing the minor not very invasive surgery, it will be more about if there is any lingering pain more than anything.

Either way, this is great news. I know people might be worried about the long-term outlook with him only going for the trim, but I doubt the team or TL would be putting his career in jeopardy by having him take a risk. Sounds like this is probably a best case scenario...all things considered.

I'm worried about his long-term outlook—not because of this particular surgery, but because he has yet to go a full season without a significant injury. Here's a list of his injuries so far in his short career (per foxsports.com):

02/15/2022   Calf
01/01/2022   Toe
11/15/2021   Knee
05/28/2021   Ankle
05/18/2021   Toe
05/09/2021   Foot
05/06/2021   Foot
04/27/2021   Knee
04/15/2021   Knee
02/11/2021   Left Hip
03/09/2020   Back
12/08/2019   Hip
11/16/2019   Right Ankle Soreness
11/13/2019   Ankle
11/01/2019   Left Hip
03/23/2019   Lower Back Contusion
02/12/2019   Back
02/03/2019   Lower Back Soreness
12/27/2018   Groin

Not good and definitely reason for concern moving forward, but doesn't necessarily feel quite as bad when compared to some others. 
Here's an example...  Marcus Smart:
(Jaylen Brown's looks worse)

02/15/2022   Ankle
01/11/2022   Reconditioning
12/27/2021   Hand
12/24/2021   Hip
12/12/2021   Illness
10/29/2021   Illness
10/21/2021   Knee
05/12/2021   Calf
04/19/2021   Illness
01/30/2021   Calf
01/04/2021   Right Thumb
08/12/2020   Rest
03/02/2020   Illness
02/02/2020   Quad
01/25/2020   Left Hand Sprain
01/17/2020   Ankle
12/09/2019   Eye
12/01/2019   Abdomen
11/18/2019   Sprained Right Ankle
04/08/2019   Oblique
03/13/2019   Illness
01/28/2019   Laceration
01/14/2019   Illness
03/12/2018   Torn Thumb Tendon
01/24/2018   Hand Laceration
01/17/2018   Illness
10/20/2017   Sore Ankle

Good point about Smart and Brown. For some reason, though, I feel more concerned about Robert—maybe because NBA history is littered with good bigs (moreso than wings or guards) whose careers were derailed by knee/hip/foot problems.

[PAOBoston]

If I’m this guy’s agent, I’m pushing him to shut it down for the rest of this season.

[Rondo9]

If I’m this guy’s agent, I’m pushing him to shut it down for the rest of this season.

Why? Williams is on a long-term contract, there's no need to worry about that.

[PAOBoston]

If I’m this guy’s agent, I’m pushing him to shut it down for the rest of this season.

Why? Williams is on a long-term contract, there's no need to worry about that.

Literally the reason why he should wait and play it safe. He’s gotten the bag. He doesn’t have to rush back. Ease your way back. Protect yourself and potential to earn another deal after this one.

[Kernewek]

I'm not sure shutting down for one postseason would make a lot of difference to his long term career prospects, tbh.

[droopdog7]

I just hope this option was the best all around.  It's a bonus that Rob might be back.

Now we move on to the thing I hate possibly more than anything else; waiting for a guy to return from injury.  Nightmare still about KG back when.

[Jvalin]

Could be a blessing in disguise. I still believe we'd be better off with one Big in our starting lineup. Timelord is arguably our 3rd best player, but at least we'll now have a more mobile starting unit. Chances are we'll be playing at a faster pace on offense, plus we'll be more switchable on defense.

[Redz]

I hate injuries. 

[JumpingJudkins]

Could be a blessing in disguise. I still believe we'd be better off with one Big in our starting lineup. Timelord is arguably our 3rd best player, but at least we'll now have a more mobile starting unit. Chances are we'll be playing at a faster pace on offense, plus we'll be more switchable on defense.

I love Grant Williams, but he's not more mobile than RWIII and I don't know that he's more switchable either. Perimeter shooting is a different story. Good to have a consistent 3-point threat out there for Tatum and Brown to dish off to.

[Celtics2021]

Could be a blessing in disguise. I still believe we'd be better off with one Big in our starting lineup. Timelord is arguably our 3rd best player, but at least we'll now have a more mobile starting unit. Chances are we'll be playing at a faster pace on offense, plus we'll be more switchable on defense.

I don't know how you can have seen how the Celtics starting unit have performed all season and still hold onto this view.  I started the season questioning the two big starting lineup, but I've long since given up that doubt.