This is what happens

[Moranis]

It's either win or play these guys, he choose to win.

I don't think this is true.  At all.  Good teams can win, even while incorporating lesser players into their rotation.   It's not like the guys Miami or Chicago or other teams are developing are elite players.   This is something we've seen for years.    Part of coaching is developing talent, and clearly both Pritchard and Nesmith have NBA talent.

After trading DiVincenzo the Bucks don't have a single player they developed on the roster other than Giannis and Middleton (who was drafted elsewhere) and who both obviously developed long before they became an elite team.  Heck they only have 1 regular roster player they even drafted (other than Giannis) in Jordan Nwora who was a 2nd round pick 2 drafts ago and has played basically the same amount of minutes that Nesmith has played.  The Warriors during their 5 season run, basically only developed Kevon Looney.  Elite teams rarely develop young talent.  Now I'd agree that Boston isn't at that level of team, but you do sort of have to make a choice, am I going to try to win or am I going to develop for the future.  It is very rare to be able to do both and we've seen that first hand in Boston where Ainge was trying to do both and left the team a mess which Stevens is trying to get out of. 

[ozgod]

1.  Part of being a coach is developing your lesser players to step in if there are injuries.  Ime hasn't done a good job this year of forcing minutes to our backups, particularly Nesmith and Pritchard.  Teams can't expect that they are going to be healthy at all times, so they need to incorporate their depth.  This is what makes Spoelstra a great coach.  Ime needs to learn this skill.

It's either win or play these guys, he choose to win.    Spoelstra has a better scouting department, plain and simple.  Were people asking for Nesmith and Pritchard during the trade deadline.   Nope, that ought to tell you all you need to know.

2.  The team wasn't focused.  I thought we were past taking teams for granted, but we were noticeably lazier in this game.  15 turnovers and much less ball movement that we've been seeing.

True, no team is focused all the time though.   

3.  Our team needs a rebounding clinic after last night.  Apparently we're relying on Timelord too much, because our forwards / wings weren't trying at all on the boards, and Horford / Theis / Williams were outmatched.  18 offensive rebounds for Detroit, 2 for us!  That was the difference in the game.

The whole team was bad except White in this regard.   41 minutes and 3 boards does not cut it from our starting PF.   He played very well otherwise on offense.

It was a stinker and you can bet the coaching staff here loved it as it knocks the guys down a level prior to the All Star Break

Yes I’m glad about that at least. I thought our streak would be broken before the ASB, but I thought it would be Philly not Detroit. But it could be a blessing in disguise as from their comments the past few games they seemed to just be starting to believe their own press just a bit. It’s a good reminder that they haven’t really achieved anything yet and one loss dropped us back to seventh, that’s how small the margins we’re dealing with are.

[Goldstar88]

It's either win or play these guys, he choose to win.

I don't think this is true.  At all.  Good teams can win, even while incorporating lesser players into their rotation.   It's not like the guys Miami or Chicago or other teams are developing are elite players.   This is something we've seen for years.    Part of coaching is developing talent, and clearly both Pritchard and Nesmith have NBA talent.

It may not always be true for every team, but for the C’s it seems to be the case this season. Nesmith and Pritchard have not been good. Both seem to have regressed from last year. I absolutely believe that if they played more, taking minutes away from Richardson and Schroder that the C’s would have lost more games.

[johnnygreen]

This is a quote from Joel Embiid, after the 76ers beat the Celtics 111-99 on January 14. “Boston is more of an iso heavy team, so it becomes easier to load up and stop them.”

My problem with this team, is why does it take someone to call them out publicly to get the best out of them? Is it any coincidence that after that quote, the team played with more ball movement and went 13-4 before last night’s loss? Did the Celtics let off the gas last night, because they beat the 76ers the night before and made their point to prove Embiid wrong?

Regardless of if the Celtics took the Pistons lightly last night, they need to figure out how to win close games. What is with the choke factor with this team this season in close games? Don’t give me the excuse that Smart and Timelord didn’t play. Timelord didn’t play and Smart only played 13 minutes against the 76ers, yet the team won by almost 50.

[Roy H.]

It's either win or play these guys, he choose to win.

I don't think this is true.  At all.  Good teams can win, even while incorporating lesser players into their rotation.   It's not like the guys Miami or Chicago or other teams are developing are elite players.   This is something we've seen for years.    Part of coaching is developing talent, and clearly both Pritchard and Nesmith have NBA talent.

It may not always be true for every team, but for the C’s it seems to be the case this season. Nesmith and Pritchard have not been good. Both seem to have regressed from last year. I absolutely believe that if they played more, taking minutes away from Richardson and Schroder that the C’s would have lost more games.

Or, they would have lost more games initially, but won more games later on.  That, in turn, would have left us deeper and fresher.

Last season we saw that Pritchard and Nesmith can play.  It's silly to me to say "regression" after a couple of weeks and then keep them out of the rotation for months.   Look at Miami.  They've had *17* guys average more minutes per game than Nesmith, and yet they've been alternating between first and second in the East.  Chicago has 15 guys with more average minutes, and they're currently first.  Milwaukee has had 20 guys average more minutes.  All of these teams are literally finding guys off the street, inserting them into the lineup, and winning games.

[Goldstar88]

It's either win or play these guys, he choose to win.

I don't think this is true.  At all.  Good teams can win, even while incorporating lesser players into their rotation.   It's not like the guys Miami or Chicago or other teams are developing are elite players.   This is something we've seen for years.    Part of coaching is developing talent, and clearly both Pritchard and Nesmith have NBA talent.

It may not always be true for every team, but for the C’s it seems to be the case this season. Nesmith and Pritchard have not been good. Both seem to have regressed from last year. I absolutely believe that if they played more, taking minutes away from Richardson and Schroder that the C’s would have lost more games.

Or, they would have lost more games initially, but won more games later on.  That, in turn, would have left us deeper and fresher.

Last season we saw that Pritchard and Nesmith can play.  It's silly to me to say "regression" after a couple of weeks and then keep them out of the rotation for months.   Look at Miami.  They've had *17* guys average more minutes per game than Nesmith, and yet they've been alternating between first and second in the East.  Chicago has 15 guys with more average minutes, and they're currently first.  Milwaukee has had 20 guys average more minutes.  All of these teams are literally finding guys off the street, inserting them into the lineup, and winning games.

They started out the season with 2 wins and 7 losses. At some point you have to stop the bleeding and Ime did so by shorting the rotation. I’m not sure why Nesmith/Pritchard look worse from last year, but they do and we are 3/4 of the way through the season now. Romeo was also getting spot minutes and had DNP’s, however when he did get in the game, he didn’t look lost out there and wasn’t a liability defensively. His shot wasn’t always falling, but Romeo at least looked like he belonged. I can’t say the same about Pritchard and Nesmith at this point.

[Roy H.]

It's either win or play these guys, he choose to win.

I don't think this is true.  At all.  Good teams can win, even while incorporating lesser players into their rotation.   It's not like the guys Miami or Chicago or other teams are developing are elite players.   This is something we've seen for years.    Part of coaching is developing talent, and clearly both Pritchard and Nesmith have NBA talent.

It may not always be true for every team, but for the C’s it seems to be the case this season. Nesmith and Pritchard have not been good. Both seem to have regressed from last year. I absolutely believe that if they played more, taking minutes away from Richardson and Schroder that the C’s would have lost more games.

Or, they would have lost more games initially, but won more games later on.  That, in turn, would have left us deeper and fresher.

Last season we saw that Pritchard and Nesmith can play.  It's silly to me to say "regression" after a couple of weeks and then keep them out of the rotation for months.   Look at Miami.  They've had *17* guys average more minutes per game than Nesmith, and yet they've been alternating between first and second in the East.  Chicago has 15 guys with more average minutes, and they're currently first.  Milwaukee has had 20 guys average more minutes.  All of these teams are literally finding guys off the street, inserting them into the lineup, and winning games.

They started out the season with 2 wins and 7 losses. At some point you have to stop the bleeding and Ime did so by shorting the rotation. I’m not sure why Nesmith/Pritchard look worse from last year, but they do and we are 3/4 of the way through the season now. Romeo was also getting spot minutes and had DNP’s but when he did get in the game, he didn’t look lost out there and wasn’t a liability defensively. His shot wasn’t always falling, but Romeo at least looked like he belonged. I can’t say the same about Pritchard and Nesmith at this point.

So, Pritchard and Nesmith are so uniquely bad that they can't contribute to winning, then the most successful teams in the conference are able to plug-and-play guys off the street or from the very end of the bench?

To me, that's not successful coaching.  Or, more accurately, it's not successful coaching in terms of player development.  Brad was able to do something with these guys, even without training camp or much of a pre-season.  Squeezing something out of guys 9 through 15 (or 17) on your roster is a duty of a coach and his staff.

[liam]

It's either win or play these guys, he choose to win.

I don't think this is true.  At all.  Good teams can win, even while incorporating lesser players into their rotation.   It's not like the guys Miami or Chicago or other teams are developing are elite players.   This is something we've seen for years.    Part of coaching is developing talent, and clearly both Pritchard and Nesmith have NBA talent.

It may not always be true for every team, but for the C’s it seems to be the case this season. Nesmith and Pritchard have not been good. Both seem to have regressed from last year. I absolutely believe that if they played more, taking minutes away from Richardson and Schroder that the C’s would have lost more games.

Or, they would have lost more games initially, but won more games later on.  That, in turn, would have left us deeper and fresher.

Last season we saw that Pritchard and Nesmith can play.  It's silly to me to say "regression" after a couple of weeks and then keep them out of the rotation for months.   Look at Miami.  They've had *17* guys average more minutes per game than Nesmith, and yet they've been alternating between first and second in the East.  Chicago has 15 guys with more average minutes, and they're currently first.  Milwaukee has had 20 guys average more minutes.  All of these teams are literally finding guys off the street, inserting them into the lineup, and winning games.

They started out the season with 2 wins and 7 losses. At some point you have to stop the bleeding and Ime did so by shorting the rotation. I’m not sure why Nesmith/Pritchard look worse from last year, but they do and we are 3/4 of the way through the season now. Romeo was also getting spot minutes and had DNP’s but when he did get in the game, he didn’t look lost out there and wasn’t a liability defensively. His shot wasn’t always falling, but Romeo at least looked like he belonged. I can’t say the same about Pritchard and Nesmith at this point.

So, Pritchard and Nesmith are so uniquely bad that they can't contribute to winning, then the most successful teams in the conference are able to plug-and-play guys off the street or from the very end of the bench?

To me, that's not successful coaching.  Or, more accurately, it's not successful coaching in terms of player development.  Brad was able to do something with these guys, even without training camp or much of a pre-season.  Squeezing something out of guys 9 through 15 (or 17) on your roster is a duty of a coach and his staff.

100% agree. You can't only play 7-8 guys for an 82 game season.

[Vermont Green]

After commenting on the offensive rebounding disparity, I didn't notice that Grant Williams had only 3 total rebs in 41 minutes.  Yeah, Grant hit some shots, did his thing, but this illustrates his limitations.  We started him because RWill was out but this so illustrates the weakness we have at the PF position and with Bigs depth in general.  I am happy with Grant as a bench player, good versatility, but he has severe limitations.

And as to the development of young players debate, specifically Pritchard and Nesmith, they just have not been that good this year.  You are either good enough to play and contribute or you aren't.

Think back to the 2007-08 team.  The young players were Rondo, Powe, Pruitt, Davis, and maybe you could include Tony Allen.  No one was force fed minutes.  They played the entire season to win every game.  Rondo played because he proved he was good enough to play.  Others played when they were needed.  They didn't worry if they were developing Gabe Pruitt or not.  That is the NBA.  If Pritchard and Nesmith want to play more, they need to play better.

[Celtics4ever]

It's either win or play these guys, he choose to win.

I don't think this is true.  At all.  Good teams can win, even while incorporating lesser players into their rotation.   It's not like the guys Miami or Chicago or other teams are developing are elite players.   This is something we've seen for years.    Part of coaching is developing talent, and clearly both Pritchard and Nesmith have NBA talent.

I think the key to this is you have to possess an NBA level skill to a high degree.   Their shots come and go to a large extent.    We all love it when they're hot and hate it when they're not.   Nesmith has some size and some NBA level athletic ability.  Not saying they are trash but are they quality rotation players?   I am not so sure... Other teams draft athletes that bloom into players or specialists.    Nesmith was supposed to be a specialist.   Pritchard was supposed we could plug right in.   I do think being from Ainge's backyard helped him a bit. 

Are we a good team?   There are guys out there that would have helped more than either of these guys in all honesty.   That does mean they stink or are not NBA players, but Payton Pritchard  played 4 years in college.  Those guys are supposed to be ready.   Nesmith not so much.  So are we are good team?   Or do we shorten our rotation because we have to do so.  We have had 21 games decided by 6 or less points this season.  Nearly 1/3 of our games have been tight games.

I do think Nesmith has a higher ceiling and Pritchard a higher floor if that makes sense.

If you're good enough to play, your going to play.   Playing time is earned,  not a god given right.

Developing players is a problem for us.  Stevens said that.   I think a lot of our problems start with the scouting component of that issue.   Every time misses in the draft,  every player let's players slip by but since 2019, we've been a mess in this regard.  Too many good players have slipped through our fingers.   

[Roy H.]

Think back to the 2007-08 team.  The young players were Rondo, Powe, Pruitt, Davis, and maybe you could include Tony Allen.  No one was force fed minutes.  They played the entire season to win every game.  Rondo played because he proved he was good enough to play.  Others played when they were needed.  They didn't worry if they were developing Gabe Pruitt or not.  That is the NBA.  If Pritchard and Nesmith want to play more, they need to play better.

That's not really true.  For instance, Glen Davis played 69 games at 13.6 minutes despite only averaging 4.5 points per game on .484 eFG%.  In November he shot 43.5%, but saw his minutes go up in December.  The same was true of second year player Leon Powe, who was given 14.4 minutes per game (although it can reasonably argued that his performance warranted those minutes). 

[Goldstar88]

It's either win or play these guys, he choose to win.

I don't think this is true.  At all.  Good teams can win, even while incorporating lesser players into their rotation.   It's not like the guys Miami or Chicago or other teams are developing are elite players.   This is something we've seen for years.    Part of coaching is developing talent, and clearly both Pritchard and Nesmith have NBA talent.

It may not always be true for every team, but for the C’s it seems to be the case this season. Nesmith and Pritchard have not been good. Both seem to have regressed from last year. I absolutely believe that if they played more, taking minutes away from Richardson and Schroder that the C’s would have lost more games.

Or, they would have lost more games initially, but won more games later on.  That, in turn, would have left us deeper and fresher.

Last season we saw that Pritchard and Nesmith can play.  It's silly to me to say "regression" after a couple of weeks and then keep them out of the rotation for months.   Look at Miami.  They've had *17* guys average more minutes per game than Nesmith, and yet they've been alternating between first and second in the East.  Chicago has 15 guys with more average minutes, and they're currently first.  Milwaukee has had 20 guys average more minutes.  All of these teams are literally finding guys off the street, inserting them into the lineup, and winning games.

They started out the season with 2 wins and 7 losses. At some point you have to stop the bleeding and Ime did so by shorting the rotation. I’m not sure why Nesmith/Pritchard look worse from last year, but they do and we are 3/4 of the way through the season now. Romeo was also getting spot minutes and had DNP’s but when he did get in the game, he didn’t look lost out there and wasn’t a liability defensively. His shot wasn’t always falling, but Romeo at least looked like he belonged. I can’t say the same about Pritchard and Nesmith at this point.

So, Pritchard and Nesmith are so uniquely bad that they can't contribute to winning, then the most successful teams in the conference are able to plug-and-play guys off the street or from the very end of the bench?

To me, that's not successful coaching.  Or, more accurately, it's not successful coaching in terms of player development.  Brad was able to do something with these guys, even without training camp or much of a pre-season.  Squeezing something out of guys 9 through 15 (or 17) on your roster is a duty of a coach and his staff.

Maybe it is the coaching and player development.  When I watch Pritchard and Nesmith it just seems like the game is still too fast for them and both struggle defensively. Hopefully that changes as they go into year 3. We really need at least one of those guys to be a solid contributor.

[Moranis]

Think back to the 2007-08 team.  The young players were Rondo, Powe, Pruitt, Davis, and maybe you could include Tony Allen.  No one was force fed minutes.  They played the entire season to win every game.  Rondo played because he proved he was good enough to play.  Others played when they were needed.  They didn't worry if they were developing Gabe Pruitt or not.  That is the NBA.  If Pritchard and Nesmith want to play more, they need to play better.

That's not really true.  For instance, Glen Davis played 69 games at 13.6 minutes despite only averaging 4.5 points per game on .484 eFG%.  In November he shot 43.5%, but saw his minutes go up in December.  The same was true of second year player Leon Powe, who was given 14.4 minutes per game (although it can reasonably argued that his performance warranted those minutes).

That team came together in the prior offseason (and KG was after free agency was basically done) and required a lot of depth to make those trades happen.  The team just didn't have many options.  Once PJ Brown was signed, Davis played much less frequently and he basically didn't play at all in the Finals.  The rookies stopped getting action in 09, 10, and 11 though as the team remained elite and the team had full off seasons to fill in the pieces.  Bradley in year 2, i.e. 2012, finally did something from all of the young guys added in that span. 

[Vermont Green]

Think back to the 2007-08 team.  The young players were Rondo, Powe, Pruitt, Davis, and maybe you could include Tony Allen.  No one was force fed minutes.  They played the entire season to win every game.  Rondo played because he proved he was good enough to play.  Others played when they were needed.  They didn't worry if they were developing Gabe Pruitt or not.  That is the NBA.  If Pritchard and Nesmith want to play more, they need to play better.

That's not really true.  For instance, Glen Davis played 69 games at 13.6 minutes despite only averaging 4.5 points per game on .484 eFG%.  In November he shot 43.5%, but saw his minutes go up in December.  The same was true of second year player Leon Powe, who was given 14.4 minutes per game (although it can reasonably argued that his performance warranted those minutes).

So about what Grant Williams played the last couple of years?  Rookies who were good enough played when they were needed to play.  It was never the objective to play Davis more so that he could "develop", at least that is not what I saw.

Grant Williams has played, Pritchard played, rookies/young players are given time.  That is different than force feeding minutes to them so that they can develop.

Nesmith has in general not played well.  He does not deserve more minutes.  Pritchard is a bit different.  He may have suffered from a numbers crunch when Schroder was here but he also did not play as well this season as last for some reason.

[liam]

Think back to the 2007-08 team.  The young players were Rondo, Powe, Pruitt, Davis, and maybe you could include Tony Allen.  No one was force fed minutes.  They played the entire season to win every game.  Rondo played because he proved he was good enough to play.  Others played when they were needed.  They didn't worry if they were developing Gabe Pruitt or not.  That is the NBA.  If Pritchard and Nesmith want to play more, they need to play better.

That's not really true.  For instance, Glen Davis played 69 games at 13.6 minutes despite only averaging 4.5 points per game on .484 eFG%.  In November he shot 43.5%, but saw his minutes go up in December.  The same was true of second year player Leon Powe, who was given 14.4 minutes per game (although it can reasonably argued that his performance warranted those minutes).

So about what Grant Williams played the last couple of years?  Rookies who were good enough played when they were needed to play.  It was never the objective to play Davis more so that he could "develop", at least that is not what I saw.

Grant Williams has played, Pritchard played, rookies/young players are given time.  That is different than force feeding minutes to them so that they can develop.

Nesmith has in general not played well.  He does not deserve more minutes.  Pritchard is a bit different.  He may have suffered from a numbers crunch when Schroder was here but he also did not play as well this season as last for some reason.

I thought Grant was much worse last year after his rookie season and his minutes increased.