Author Topic: This is what happens  (Read 8151 times)

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Re: This is what happens
« Reply #45 on: February 17, 2022, 10:09:20 PM »

Offline pokeKingCurtis

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Brad benched the hell out of Jaylen Brown for his first few years. And he was the third overall pick?

Re: This is what happens
« Reply #46 on: February 17, 2022, 10:14:06 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Brad benched the hell out of Jaylen Brown for his first few years. And he was the third overall pick?

He played 78 games as a rookie, including 20 starts.


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Re: This is what happens
« Reply #47 on: February 17, 2022, 10:22:32 PM »

Offline pokeKingCurtis

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Brad benched the hell out of Jaylen Brown for his first few years. And he was the third overall pick?

He played 78 games as a rookie, including 20 starts.

I remember him having a tight leash on Jaylen for some reason, but maybe I'm wrong

Re: This is what happens
« Reply #48 on: February 17, 2022, 10:37:02 PM »

Offline liam

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Brad benched the hell out of Jaylen Brown for his first few years. And he was the third overall pick?

He played 78 games as a rookie, including 20 starts.

I remember him having a tight leash on Jaylen for some reason, but maybe I'm wrong

I remember Brad kept playing "not right" Hayward over Jaylen. I remember Brad really force feeding Hayward minutes.

Re: This is what happens
« Reply #49 on: February 17, 2022, 10:57:07 PM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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We still should have won easily. The team just came in with the wrong attitude after a blowout win against a very good Sixers team. They overlooked the Pistons and just never bought the defensive effort and focus needed tonight.

Thank You for cutting through all the over-analysis and stating exactly why we lost this game.
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Re: This is what happens
« Reply #50 on: February 18, 2022, 06:26:57 AM »

Offline LilRip

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Brad benched the hell out of Jaylen Brown for his first few years. And he was the third overall pick?

He played 78 games as a rookie, including 20 starts.

I remember him having a tight leash on Jaylen for some reason, but maybe I'm wrong

I think that narrative is fan overreaction. While Brad would pull Jaylen for blowing coverages, it isn’t uncommon for coaches to do that, especially for younger guys.

Besides, werent there guys ahead of JB who were regularly playing better than him anyway? JB came in the league as a strong on ball defender with a shaky shot. He didn’t come in like Tatum who immediately turned heads

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Re: This is what happens
« Reply #51 on: February 18, 2022, 06:33:56 AM »

Offline ozgod

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It's either win or play these guys, he choose to win.

I don't think this is true.  At all.  Good teams can win, even while incorporating lesser players into their rotation.   It's not like the guys Miami or Chicago or other teams are developing are elite players.   This is something we've seen for years.    Part of coaching is developing talent, and clearly both Pritchard and Nesmith have NBA talent.

It may not always be true for every team, but for the C’s it seems to be the case this season. Nesmith and Pritchard have not been good. Both seem to have regressed from last year. I absolutely believe that if they played more, taking minutes away from Richardson and Schroder that the C’s would have lost more games.

Or, they would have lost more games initially, but won more games later on.  That, in turn, would have left us deeper and fresher.

Last season we saw that Pritchard and Nesmith can play.  It's silly to me to say "regression" after a couple of weeks and then keep them out of the rotation for months.   Look at Miami.  They've had *17* guys average more minutes per game than Nesmith, and yet they've been alternating between first and second in the East.  Chicago has 15 guys with more average minutes, and they're currently first.  Milwaukee has had 20 guys average more minutes.  All of these teams are literally finding guys off the street, inserting them into the lineup, and winning games.

They started out the season with 2 wins and 7 losses. At some point you have to stop the bleeding and Ime did so by shorting the rotation. I’m not sure why Nesmith/Pritchard look worse from last year, but they do and we are 3/4 of the way through the season now. Romeo was also getting spot minutes and had DNP’s but when he did get in the game, he didn’t look lost out there and wasn’t a liability defensively. His shot wasn’t always falling, but Romeo at least looked like he belonged. I can’t say the same about Pritchard and Nesmith at this point.

So, Pritchard and Nesmith are so uniquely bad that they can't contribute to winning, then the most successful teams in the conference are able to plug-and-play guys off the street or from the very end of the bench?

To me, that's not successful coaching.  Or, more accurately, it's not successful coaching in terms of player development.  Brad was able to do something with these guys, even without training camp or much of a pre-season.  Squeezing something out of guys 9 through 15 (or 17) on your roster is a duty of a coach and his staff.

Maybe it is the coaching and player development.  When I watch Pritchard and Nesmith it just seems like the game is still too fast for them and both struggle defensively. Hopefully that changes as they go into year 3. We really need at least one of those guys to be a solid contributor.

Sometimes they just develop late...and we're only seeing the part of them that we see as fans, which is game days. We don't know how they are in practice and what improvements (if any) they have made towards the way that Ime wants them to play.

In Brad's interview with Jay King a few weeks ago he brought up Timelord as an example of a player who didn't play much the first couple of years but kept working and had a breakthrough year in year 3.

Quote
Payton Pritchard, Aaron Nesmith and Romeo Langford have been lost in the shuffle at times this season. What is the balance there between wanting veterans who can contribute and then possibly clearing room for some of the young guys to get more of a chance? What have you seen from some of those younger guys as you evaluate who could be a significant part of the team moving forward?

When I was coaching, I used to say this all the time: Just because somebody’s not playing minutes doesn’t mean they’re not improving. And I think that’s huge. And I think Rob Williams is the greatest example. Rob didn’t play much his first year, played a little bit his second year but was hurt for 50 games, played in one series out of three basically against Toronto, and now has taken two years later a step that’s pretty drastic as far as he can be a guy that can really, really help you win not only in the regular season but beyond. And I think we have to look at these guys as not only what they do in their minutes, but what they’re doing in practice, what they’re doing in the small group work. I believe in all three of them. Payton has gotten a lot more opportunity lately. Romeo got a lot more opportunity early. Romeo’s last game was one of his best, or the last game that he played a lot of minutes, the Phoenix game. And then Payton’s been pretty consistent. And I have no doubt about Aaron. Like, I don’t lose any sleep over what he can be. And he is in a little bit of a pinch numbers-wise with the guys we have. And we’ll see how that all shakes itself out. But regardless of if he plays zero minutes or 25 minutes, he’s going to have a successful career. He’s going to be a really good player.

https://theathletic.com/3073974/2022/01/17/brad-stevens-1-on-1-celtics-gm-talks-trade-deadline-dennis-schroders-future-and-evaluating-coach-ime-udoka/

Here's the comparison of Timelord's year 1 and 2 with Aaron and Payton's years 1 and 2 (caveat being that Timelord was injured in his year 2 and missed a lot of games). But it shows how players can make leaps and shouldn't necessarily be discarded after 2 poor seasons.

« Last Edit: February 18, 2022, 06:43:58 AM by ozgod »
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D


Re: This is what happens
« Reply #52 on: February 18, 2022, 06:47:45 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Think back to the 2007-08 team.  The young players were Rondo, Powe, Pruitt, Davis, and maybe you could include Tony Allen.  No one was force fed minutes.  They played the entire season to win every game.  Rondo played because he proved he was good enough to play.  Others played when they were needed.  They didn't worry if they were developing Gabe Pruitt or not.  That is the NBA.  If Pritchard and Nesmith want to play more, they need to play better.

That's not really true.  For instance, Glen Davis played 69 games at 13.6 minutes despite only averaging 4.5 points per game on .484 eFG%.  In November he shot 43.5%, but saw his minutes go up in December.  The same was true of second year player Leon Powe, who was given 14.4 minutes per game (although it can reasonably argued that his performance warranted those minutes).

So about what Grant Williams played the last couple of years?  Rookies who were good enough played when they were needed to play.  It was never the objective to play Davis more so that he could "develop", at least that is not what I saw.

Grant Williams has played, Pritchard played, rookies/young players are given time.  That is different than force feeding minutes to them so that they can develop.

Nesmith has in general not played well.  He does not deserve more minutes.  Pritchard is a bit different.  He may have suffered from a numbers crunch when Schroder was here but he also did not play as well this season as last for some reason.

I thought Grant was much worse last year after his rookie season and his minutes increased.

He was terrible.   He tried to go all strength, in hopes he would battle in the low post and played at too heavy a weight that hurt his athletic ability.  But Grant is really smart and figured it out, addressed this weakness, and worked on his shot and he is doing better.    I think the path he was on prior was the wrong one.   It looks like he did his on his own, he did not come to Summer League and worked his tail off.  His big leap in improvement came there.    The off season is where guys have the time to improve skills.

Which comes to the point.   What player development have we seen.   Rob definitely, Romeo, Nesmith have languished here.  Pritchard it's too early to tell, but how much more skilled can he get?   He has a finite athlete floor, I think he just needs to play quicker, push the ball and try to use his speed more and change the pace.  I would contend Grant developed on his own.

Quote
Sometimes they just develop late...and we're only seeing the part of them that we see as fans, which is game days. We don't know how they are in practice and what improvements (if any) they have made towards the way that Ime wants them to play.

Sometimes they don't develop at all.     

We all know about the misses in the draft, in terms of guys ready to contribute.    How many strikes do they get?   The problem is in the scouting department not the coach.  You have to have the raw potential to develop!

Quote
In Brad's interview with Jay King a few weeks ago he brought up Timelord as an example of a player who didn't play much the first couple of years but kept working and had a breakthrough year in year 3.

Quote

    Payton Pritchard, Aaron Nesmith and Romeo Langford have been lost in the shuffle at times this season. What is the balance there between wanting veterans who can contribute and then possibly clearing room for some of the young guys to get more of a chance? What have you seen from some of those younger guys as you evaluate who could be a significant part of the team moving forward?

    When I was coaching, I used to say this all the time: Just because somebody’s not playing minutes doesn’t mean they’re not improving. And I think that’s huge. And I think Rob Williams is the greatest example. Rob didn’t play much his first year, played a little bit his second year but was hurt for 50 games, played in one series out of three basically against Toronto, and now has taken two years later a step that’s pretty drastic as far as he can be a guy that can really, really help you win not only in the regular season but beyond. And I think we have to look at these guys as not only what they do in their minutes, but what they’re doing in practice, what they’re doing in the small group work. I believe in all three of them. Payton has gotten a lot more opportunity lately. Romeo got a lot more opportunity early. Romeo’s last game was one of his best, or the last game that he played a lot of minutes, the Phoenix game. And then Payton’s been pretty consistent. And I have no doubt about Aaron. Like, I don’t lose any sleep over what he can be. And he is in a little bit of a pinch numbers-wise with the guys we have. And we’ll see how that all shakes itself out. But regardless of if he plays zero minutes or 25 minutes, he’s going to have a successful career. He’s going to be a really good player.

    https://theathletic.com/3073974/2022/01/17/brad-stevens-1-on-1-celtics-gm-talks-trade-deadline-dennis-schroders-future-and-evaluating-coach-ime-udoka/


Here's the comparison of Timelord's year 1 and 2 with Aaron and Payton's years 1 and 2 (caveat being that Timelord was injured in his year 2 and missed a lot of games). But it shows how players can make leaps and shouldn't necessarily be discarded after 2 poor seasons.


They get reps against Brown and Tatum all the time and those two are NBA handfuls.   Guys who say you can't improve not playing probably never played past middle school.  I know I learned a lot watching my freshman year.    Practicing against older guys makes you more skilled and build confidence as you learn to compete and best them.

Re: This is what happens
« Reply #53 on: February 18, 2022, 07:57:07 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Think back to the 2007-08 team.  The young players were Rondo, Powe, Pruitt, Davis, and maybe you could include Tony Allen.  No one was force fed minutes.  They played the entire season to win every game.  Rondo played because he proved he was good enough to play.  Others played when they were needed.  They didn't worry if they were developing Gabe Pruitt or not.  That is the NBA.  If Pritchard and Nesmith want to play more, they need to play better.

That's not really true.  For instance, Glen Davis played 69 games at 13.6 minutes despite only averaging 4.5 points per game on .484 eFG%.  In November he shot 43.5%, but saw his minutes go up in December.  The same was true of second year player Leon Powe, who was given 14.4 minutes per game (although it can reasonably argued that his performance warranted those minutes).

So about what Grant Williams played the last couple of years?  Rookies who were good enough played when they were needed to play.  It was never the objective to play Davis more so that he could "develop", at least that is not what I saw.

Grant Williams has played, Pritchard played, rookies/young players are given time.  That is different than force feeding minutes to them so that they can develop.

Nesmith has in general not played well.  He does not deserve more minutes.  Pritchard is a bit different.  He may have suffered from a numbers crunch when Schroder was here but he also did not play as well this season as last for some reason.

I thought Grant was much worse last year after his rookie season and his minutes increased.

It was based on need.  Our bigs were Tristan Thompson, Theis (starters) and then on the bench Ojeleye, Tacko, and so on.  Grant got the few minutes he got not as a way to "develop" him but rather he was the best we had for those minutes.  That is my whole point.  The same has always been the case, under Doc, under Stevens, and now under Ime.  You don't play Nesmith over a better player just to develop him unless you are a team like Houston, which thankfully we are not.

Re: This is what happens
« Reply #54 on: February 18, 2022, 08:19:58 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Think back to the 2007-08 team.  The young players were Rondo, Powe, Pruitt, Davis, and maybe you could include Tony Allen.  No one was force fed minutes.  They played the entire season to win every game.  Rondo played because he proved he was good enough to play.  Others played when they were needed.  They didn't worry if they were developing Gabe Pruitt or not.  That is the NBA.  If Pritchard and Nesmith want to play more, they need to play better.

That's not really true.  For instance, Glen Davis played 69 games at 13.6 minutes despite only averaging 4.5 points per game on .484 eFG%.  In November he shot 43.5%, but saw his minutes go up in December.  The same was true of second year player Leon Powe, who was given 14.4 minutes per game (although it can reasonably argued that his performance warranted those minutes).

So about what Grant Williams played the last couple of years?  Rookies who were good enough played when they were needed to play.  It was never the objective to play Davis more so that he could "develop", at least that is not what I saw.

Grant Williams has played, Pritchard played, rookies/young players are given time.  That is different than force feeding minutes to them so that they can develop.

Nesmith has in general not played well.  He does not deserve more minutes.  Pritchard is a bit different.  He may have suffered from a numbers crunch when Schroder was here but he also did not play as well this season as last for some reason.

I thought Grant was much worse last year after his rookie season and his minutes increased.

It was based on need.  Our bigs were Tristan Thompson, Theis (starters) and then on the bench Ojeleye, Tacko, and so on.  Grant got the few minutes he got not as a way to "develop" him but rather he was the best we had for those minutes.  That is my whole point.  The same has always been the case, under Doc, under Stevens, and now under Ime.  You don't play Nesmith over a better player just to develop him unless you are a team like Houston, which thankfully we are not.

Take out the word "develop", then.  Teams need to go with more than eight or nine players during the regular season, and not just in garbage time.  As mentioned, coaches need to do something with players 9 through 17 on their roster.  As shown, the top teams in the East are able to do this.  I suspect it's the same in the West, but I didn't check.


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Re: This is what happens
« Reply #55 on: February 18, 2022, 09:47:46 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Think back to the 2007-08 team.  The young players were Rondo, Powe, Pruitt, Davis, and maybe you could include Tony Allen.  No one was force fed minutes.  They played the entire season to win every game.  Rondo played because he proved he was good enough to play.  Others played when they were needed.  They didn't worry if they were developing Gabe Pruitt or not.  That is the NBA.  If Pritchard and Nesmith want to play more, they need to play better.

That's not really true.  For instance, Glen Davis played 69 games at 13.6 minutes despite only averaging 4.5 points per game on .484 eFG%.  In November he shot 43.5%, but saw his minutes go up in December.  The same was true of second year player Leon Powe, who was given 14.4 minutes per game (although it can reasonably argued that his performance warranted those minutes).

So about what Grant Williams played the last couple of years?  Rookies who were good enough played when they were needed to play.  It was never the objective to play Davis more so that he could "develop", at least that is not what I saw.

Grant Williams has played, Pritchard played, rookies/young players are given time.  That is different than force feeding minutes to them so that they can develop.

Nesmith has in general not played well.  He does not deserve more minutes.  Pritchard is a bit different.  He may have suffered from a numbers crunch when Schroder was here but he also did not play as well this season as last for some reason.

I thought Grant was much worse last year after his rookie season and his minutes increased.

He was terrible.   He tried to go all strength, in hopes he would battle in the low post and played at too heavy a weight that hurt his athletic ability.  But Grant is really smart and figured it out, addressed this weakness, and worked on his shot and he is doing better.    I think the path he was on prior was the wrong one.   It looks like he did his on his own, he did not come to Summer League and worked his tail off.  His big leap in improvement came there.    The off season is where guys have the time to improve skills.

Which comes to the point.   What player development have we seen.   Rob definitely, Romeo, Nesmith have languished here.  Pritchard it's too early to tell, but how much more skilled can he get?   He has a finite athlete floor, I think he just needs to play quicker, push the ball and try to use his speed more and change the pace.  I would contend Grant developed on his own.

Quote
Sometimes they just develop late...and we're only seeing the part of them that we see as fans, which is game days. We don't know how they are in practice and what improvements (if any) they have made towards the way that Ime wants them to play.

Sometimes they don't develop at all.     

We all know about the misses in the draft, in terms of guys ready to contribute.    How many strikes do they get?   The problem is in the scouting department not the coach.  You have to have the raw potential to develop!

Quote
In Brad's interview with Jay King a few weeks ago he brought up Timelord as an example of a player who didn't play much the first couple of years but kept working and had a breakthrough year in year 3.

Quote

    Payton Pritchard, Aaron Nesmith and Romeo Langford have been lost in the shuffle at times this season. What is the balance there between wanting veterans who can contribute and then possibly clearing room for some of the young guys to get more of a chance? What have you seen from some of those younger guys as you evaluate who could be a significant part of the team moving forward?

    When I was coaching, I used to say this all the time: Just because somebody’s not playing minutes doesn’t mean they’re not improving. And I think that’s huge. And I think Rob Williams is the greatest example. Rob didn’t play much his first year, played a little bit his second year but was hurt for 50 games, played in one series out of three basically against Toronto, and now has taken two years later a step that’s pretty drastic as far as he can be a guy that can really, really help you win not only in the regular season but beyond. And I think we have to look at these guys as not only what they do in their minutes, but what they’re doing in practice, what they’re doing in the small group work. I believe in all three of them. Payton has gotten a lot more opportunity lately. Romeo got a lot more opportunity early. Romeo’s last game was one of his best, or the last game that he played a lot of minutes, the Phoenix game. And then Payton’s been pretty consistent. And I have no doubt about Aaron. Like, I don’t lose any sleep over what he can be. And he is in a little bit of a pinch numbers-wise with the guys we have. And we’ll see how that all shakes itself out. But regardless of if he plays zero minutes or 25 minutes, he’s going to have a successful career. He’s going to be a really good player.

    https://theathletic.com/3073974/2022/01/17/brad-stevens-1-on-1-celtics-gm-talks-trade-deadline-dennis-schroders-future-and-evaluating-coach-ime-udoka/


Here's the comparison of Timelord's year 1 and 2 with Aaron and Payton's years 1 and 2 (caveat being that Timelord was injured in his year 2 and missed a lot of games). But it shows how players can make leaps and shouldn't necessarily be discarded after 2 poor seasons.


They get reps against Brown and Tatum all the time and those two are NBA handfuls.   Guys who say you can't improve not playing probably never played past middle school.  I know I learned a lot watching my freshman year.    Practicing against older guys makes you more skilled and build confidence as you learn to compete and best them.
Here has been my theory C4E. Fans refuse to believe players can't develop without playing in games because fans need to be proven by watching players fail to see what the coaches see in practice, in shootouts, and in the video rooms and in the weight rooms.

Fans simply won't trust coach's decisions not to play young guys because those young guys haven't earned their right to play. Fans need to actually see it, regardless if it costs the team in the win-loss department.

Going all the way back to Doc Rivers, this franchise has an amazing track record of letting young guys go that never became anything. Over the last two decades the list is maybe 3-4 guys long and even then it's not like any of those players ever became so good as to become starters on a playoff team....or even a playoff rotation.

I have and still do trust our coaches because the coaches see the players in all the behind the scenes stuff. If the players aren't playing, there is a reason for it.

Re: This is what happens
« Reply #56 on: February 18, 2022, 10:28:42 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Think back to the 2007-08 team.  The young players were Rondo, Powe, Pruitt, Davis, and maybe you could include Tony Allen.  No one was force fed minutes.  They played the entire season to win every game.  Rondo played because he proved he was good enough to play.  Others played when they were needed.  They didn't worry if they were developing Gabe Pruitt or not.  That is the NBA.  If Pritchard and Nesmith want to play more, they need to play better.

That's not really true.  For instance, Glen Davis played 69 games at 13.6 minutes despite only averaging 4.5 points per game on .484 eFG%.  In November he shot 43.5%, but saw his minutes go up in December.  The same was true of second year player Leon Powe, who was given 14.4 minutes per game (although it can reasonably argued that his performance warranted those minutes).

So about what Grant Williams played the last couple of years?  Rookies who were good enough played when they were needed to play.  It was never the objective to play Davis more so that he could "develop", at least that is not what I saw.

Grant Williams has played, Pritchard played, rookies/young players are given time.  That is different than force feeding minutes to them so that they can develop.

Nesmith has in general not played well.  He does not deserve more minutes.  Pritchard is a bit different.  He may have suffered from a numbers crunch when Schroder was here but he also did not play as well this season as last for some reason.

I thought Grant was much worse last year after his rookie season and his minutes increased.

It was based on need.  Our bigs were Tristan Thompson, Theis (starters) and then on the bench Ojeleye, Tacko, and so on.  Grant got the few minutes he got not as a way to "develop" him but rather he was the best we had for those minutes.  That is my whole point.  The same has always been the case, under Doc, under Stevens, and now under Ime.  You don't play Nesmith over a better player just to develop him unless you are a team like Houston, which thankfully we are not.

Take out the word "develop", then.  Teams need to go with more than eight or nine players during the regular season, and not just in garbage time.  As mentioned, coaches need to do something with players 9 through 17 on their roster.  As shown, the top teams in the East are able to do this.  I suspect it's the same in the West, but I didn't check.
Pritchard is playing 12.3 mpg this year.  Langford is at 16.5 mpg.  8 guys are over 20 mpg (counting White and Richardson as 1 guy), which is pretty much the normal for teams, even teams considered deep like the Suns have only 8 guys over 20 mpg and one of them is Kaminsky who played in 9 games.  The Celtics minutes are very much in line with the best teams in the sport. 
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Starters - Luka, JB, Lebron, Wemby, Shaq
Rotation - D. Daniels, Mitchell, G. Wallace, Melo, Noah
Deep Bench - Korver, Turner

Re: This is what happens
« Reply #57 on: February 18, 2022, 12:00:50 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Here has been my theory C4E. Fans refuse to believe players can't develop without playing in games because fans need to be proven by watching players fail to see what the coaches see in practice, in shootouts, and in the video rooms and in the weight rooms.

Fans simply won't trust coach's decisions not to play young guys because those young guys haven't earned their right to play. Fans need to actually see it, regardless if it costs the team in the win-loss department.

Going all the way back to Doc Rivers, this franchise has an amazing track record of letting young guys go that never became anything. Over the last two decades the list is maybe 3-4 guys long and even then it's not like any of those players ever became so good as to become starters on a playoff team....or even a playoff rotation.

I have and still do trust our coaches because the coaches see the players in all the behind the scenes stuff. If the players aren't playing, there is a reason for it.

Maybe you'rr on to something.    I can tell you this Udoka shortened the rotation to get wins and because he trusted those guys.    If the younger players were doing great, they'd be playing.  It is a win now league. 

There is no conspiracy to not play these guys to keep them down or the like.  Some stuff in life has to be earned, trust on the basketball court between a player and coach is one of them.

Re: This is what happens
« Reply #58 on: February 18, 2022, 12:04:42 PM »

Offline liam

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  • James Naismith
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Here has been my theory C4E. Fans refuse to believe players can't develop without playing in games because fans need to be proven by watching players fail to see what the coaches see in practice, in shootouts, and in the video rooms and in the weight rooms.

Fans simply won't trust coach's decisions not to play young guys because those young guys haven't earned their right to play. Fans need to actually see it, regardless if it costs the team in the win-loss department.

Going all the way back to Doc Rivers, this franchise has an amazing track record of letting young guys go that never became anything. Over the last two decades the list is maybe 3-4 guys long and even then it's not like any of those players ever became so good as to become starters on a playoff team....or even a playoff rotation.

I have and still do trust our coaches because the coaches see the players in all the behind the scenes stuff. If the players aren't playing, there is a reason for it.

Maybe you'rr on to something.    I can tell you this Udoka shortened the rotation to get wins and because he trusted those guys.    If the younger players were doing great, they'd be playing.  It is a win now league. 

There is no conspiracy to not play these guys to keep them down or the like.  Some stuff in life has to be earned, trust on the basketball court between a player and coach is one of them.

I agree there is no conspiracy, I don't know who is saying there is. Ime doesn't trust those guys. WE need at least 10 guys that he does trust even if it's just in a pinch or due to injury.

Re: This is what happens
« Reply #59 on: February 18, 2022, 11:36:02 PM »

Offline ozgod

  • Dennis Johnson
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Which comes to the point.   What player development have we seen.   Rob definitely, Romeo, Nesmith have languished here.  Pritchard it's too early to tell, but how much more skilled can he get?   He has a finite athlete floor, I think he just needs to play quicker, push the ball and try to use his speed more and change the pace.  I would contend Grant developed on his own.

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Sometimes they just develop late...and we're only seeing the part of them that we see as fans, which is game days. We don't know how they are in practice and what improvements (if any) they have made towards the way that Ime wants them to play.

Sometimes they don't develop at all.   

We all know about the misses in the draft, in terms of guys ready to contribute.    How many strikes do they get?   The problem is in the scouting department not the coach.  You have to have the raw potential to develop!

Very true...lots of busts out there. Hopefully by year 3 you should be getting a decent idea of their ceiling, or there should be a path for them to get to it, whether it's through more reps, through more work, through improving their skills, their court vision, decisionmaking, health or all of the above. If there isn't, or if their timeline isn't aligned with the team's, then you can move on from them before you have to commit to any extension or risk losing them in free agency for nothing.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D