Why is Payton Pritchard rotting away on the bench ?

[gouki88]

Because our coach is clueless. If Ime was a good defensive coach he’d be able to mitigate Pritchard’s size issues (like Stevens was able to do with poor defenders). Ime has lucked into the best roster when it comes to defensive talent.

If/when Schroder leaves PP should take his minutes. He’s been an excellent player when he’s played 20-29 minutes this year (small sample size), and that’s his sweet spot for me.

[Silas]

Because our coach is clueless. If Ime was a good defensive coach he’d be able to mitigate Pritchard’s size issues (like Stevens was able to do with poor defenders). Ime has lucked into the best roster when it comes to defensive talent.

If/when Schroder leaves PP should take his minutes. He’s been an excellent player when he’s played 20-29 minutes this year (small sample size), and that’s his sweet spot for me.

I was thinking the same thing.  Payton should be given the opportunity to play 20 min as the backup pg.  If it doesn't work, let Josh be the backup pg.

[Celtics2021]

Because our coach is clueless. If Ime was a good defensive coach he’d be able to mitigate Pritchard’s size issues (like Stevens was able to do with poor defenders). Ime has lucked into the best roster when it comes to defensive talent.

If/when Schroder leaves PP should take his minutes. He’s been an excellent player when he’s played 20-29 minutes this year (small sample size), and that’s his sweet spot for me.

Stevens mitigated defensive issues with Isaiah Thomas because IT was good enough on offense that he was worth designing a defense to hide him.  Pritchard is not.  It's that simple.  Same goes for Kyrie and Kemba Walker (year 1).

[PaxtonDarcy]

Because our coach is clueless. If Ime was a good defensive coach he’d be able to mitigate Pritchard’s size issues (like Stevens was able to do with poor defenders). Ime has lucked into the best roster when it comes to defensive talent.

If/when Schroder leaves PP should take his minutes. He’s been an excellent player when he’s played 20-29 minutes this year (small sample size), and that’s his sweet spot for me.

I was thinking the same thing.  Payton should be given the opportunity to play 20 min as the backup pg.  If it doesn't work, let Josh be the backup pg.

Yes let’s ruin our progress so we can find out if the guy who our coach sees in practice all the time is a marginally effective bench player no better than replacement.

[sgrogan]

Because our coach is clueless. If Ime was a good defensive coach he’d be able to mitigate Pritchard’s size issues (like Stevens was able to do with poor defenders). Ime has lucked into the best roster when it comes to defensive talent.

If/when Schroder leaves PP should take his minutes. He’s been an excellent player when he’s played 20-29 minutes this year (small sample size), and that’s his sweet spot for me.

Stevens mitigated defensive issues with Isaiah Thomas because IT was good enough on offense that he was worth designing a defense to hide him.  Pritchard is not.  It's that simple.  Same goes for Kyrie and Kemba Walker (year 1).

TP

[todd_days_41]

Because our coach is clueless.

Or because you overrate Pritchard.

[Kiorrik]

Pritchard should be playing. He just put up 9 pts and 3 asts in 14 minutes yesterday. He stretches the floor and makes the passes. Ime is playing a tight playoff rotation so there's not time past the top seven-eight... Pritcahrd needs to shoot more when he does get into a game. He needs to be more aggressive and he needs to take flopping lessons from Smart and Schroder, two of the best, to keep defenders honest. Pritchard, Romeo, and Nesmith all looked better last year, there is probably a reason for that.

As we saw last night, he certainly has a place on the floor against a team where the best players available are Patty Mills and the ghost of Blake Griffin.

There aren’t that many of those teams in the league, though.

Yeah, by yesterday's measure, PP/Nessie/Freedom/Bruno/Romeo is a valid NBA line-up :')

[sgrogan]

Pritchard should be playing. He just put up 9 pts and 3 asts in 14 minutes yesterday. He stretches the floor and makes the passes. Ime is playing a tight playoff rotation so there's not time past the top seven-eight... Pritcahrd needs to shoot more when he does get into a game. He needs to be more aggressive and he needs to take flopping lessons from Smart and Schroder, two of the best, to keep defenders honest. Pritchard, Romeo, and Nesmith all looked better last year, there is probably a reason for that.

As we saw last night, he certainly has a place on the floor against a team where the best players available are Patty Mills and the ghost of Blake Griffin.

There aren’t that many of those teams in the league, though.

Yeah, by yesterday's measure, PP/Nessie/Freedom/Bruno/Romeo is a valid NBA line-up :')

They actually went quite a while with Schröder before they put Bruno in.

[nickagneta]

Pritchard should be playing. He just put up 9 pts and 3 asts in 14 minutes yesterday. He stretches the floor and makes the passes. Ime is playing a tight playoff rotation so there's not time past the top seven-eight... Pritcahrd needs to shoot more when he does get into a game. He needs to be more aggressive and he needs to take flopping lessons from Smart and Schroder, two of the best, to keep defenders honest. Pritchard, Romeo, and Nesmith all looked better last year, there is probably a reason for that.

In garbage time, against their worst players.  He has played better than I thought as a starter this year.

Payton Pritchard has averaged 14.0 points, 5.5 rebounds and 4.5 assists in 2 games as a starter this season.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/peyton-pritchard-starter-stats

But something out there does not pass the eye test.  We've all seen him disappear when an athletic lengthy guy guards him.  I see his ceiling as a Steve Kerr bench guy shooting specialist at best.  I would love to be wrong.

Word is we are buyers now.   This means we are trying to win more and that short rotation is here to stay barring a trade.

Yeah, a shooter off the bench should be his role. It's not like we have a glut of shooters.

True, but the problem is if he’s just a shooter, is he good enough to get minutes?  In other words, if his only value is that once every four possession he attempts a three, is that worth having him on the court for the other three offensive possessions where he contributes little (he’s too small to set a screen, he’s not a good enough shooter to create gravity for the defense, his handle and passing are average), and the four defensive possessions where he’s attacked?  I think he needs to either be able to get his shot quicker off the catch, so he can shoot coming off of screens which creates movement in the offense, or be a better playmaker for others.  The former is Eddie House, the latter is Seth Curry.  Right now he makes 28-footers because that’s how he creates the space from defenders, but when he’s off ball he just stands in that space until the ball finds him, because if he relocates he might find himself too close to a defender and be unable to get off his shot (which leads to a lot of dribbling).

Neither Seth Curry nor House really had their careers take off until they were 26, so there’s still time for him.  I don’t think that time for him is this year — working on getting your shot off on the move is something that should happen as part of daily practice sessions with coaches, and not something that you try to develop off of game reps.

Coaching is sticking him in the corner and he's of no use if no one passes him the ball.

Pritchard per 36 is 14 pts 4.6 rbs 4.9 Asts Ft% 100, 3pt% 37 2pt% 40

Perfect example of the limitations and faults of the per36 stats. What good are those stats if the player isn't good enough to earn more than 13 minutes a game?

No good. You have to play to put up numbers. If they don't want those guys move them. No sense of having players on your roster that you don't trust to play. Too many projects on this roster. Either play guys or move them.

Then move Pritchard, because come playoff time, as Dons alluded to above, he is unplayable. Massive liability on both ends when playing against the best teams, best players and best defenders in a playoff format. Might as well paint a giant bullseye on his uniform.

If they have no faith in him trade him.

This doesn’t make any sense. You can’t trade a player who can’t play. He has no value.

I’m confused about what your point is.

I don't think he has no value. He has no value to a team that won't play him. There's a difference. Bane had no value to us, Strus had no value to us, Mathews had no value for us but other teams found value in them. One man's trash...

This still doesn’t make any sense. We never had bane. Strus has showed up in a very specific offense and Mathews plays for the worst team in the nba.

There is no conspiracy to keep Peyton on the bench. Ime is currently playing 8 guys against his will. If the other dudes could play, they would be playing.

I’m confused as to why you are committed to the belief that pp not playing is some conspiracy.

You’re right, if he were on the rockets, he may average 12 a game on decent stats. But that doesn’t mean that team would be better.

We drafted Bane and traded him for nothing. That's a fact.

I didn't ever say that. That is made up. I said one man's trash is another man's treasure. They don't play him. If a guy is unplayable you get rid of him. we have 7 unplayable guys on our roster and that's too many. I don't care if he plays or not but you can't have seven unplayable guys on your team. We could've gone to the finals during the lock out year but we had 9 unplayable guys that year. You need at least 10-11 playable guys on your team. They don't have to all be world beaters but they all have to be playable.

"Bane was selected with the 30th pick in the 2020 NBA draft by the Boston Celtics."

No, and you have been told this time and time again. That pick was traded to Memphis but because it was a draft day trade that couldn't be approved until later in the day/week, Boston selected Bane under the direction of Memphis.

There is nothing anywhere that has come out that if Boston kept the pick it would have been Bane. Why you can't accept these facts is bewildering.

[PhoSita]

Ime is a rookie coach whose team struggled a great deal in the first half of his first season.  Things started to tighten up as soon as he knuckled down and implemented basically a 7-8 man rotation while giving virtually zero minutes to any of the younger, less proven players on the roster.

I would not expect Ime to loosen up the rotation anytime soon.  Basically as long as he's still figuring things out as a coach he's going to lean heavily on veterans, even if that doesn't really make sense for the big picture / long term outlook.  You absolutely need to have more than 7-8 guys who know the role they are expected to play and have gotten enough reps to be relied on as necessary.  Even in the playoffs, you might not actually play more than 7-8 guys in a game, but you shouldn't expect to be able to lean on the same 7-8 guys for an entire playoff run.


It's a pretty normal thing for rookie coaches to rely heavily on vets, I think.  Brad did it too a lot of the time.  Ime is in a tougher spot than Brad was because he (1) had no experience as a head coach prior to starting and (2) he took over a team that is actually expected to win.

[liam]

Ime is a rookie coach whose team struggled a great deal in the first half of his first season.  Things started to tighten up as soon as he knuckled down and implemented basically a 7-8 man rotation while giving virtually zero minutes to any of the younger, less proven players on the roster.

I would not expect Ime to loosen up the rotation anytime soon.  Basically as long as he's still figuring things out as a coach he's going to lean heavily on veterans, even if that doesn't really make sense for the big picture / long term outlook.  You absolutely need to have more than 7-8 guys who know the role they are expected to play and have gotten enough reps to be relied on as necessary.  Even in the playoffs, you might not actually play more than 7-8 guys in a game, but you shouldn't expect to be able to lean on the same 7-8 guys for an entire playoff run.


It's a pretty normal thing for rookie coaches to rely heavily on vets, I think.  Brad did it too a lot of the time.  Ime is in a tougher spot than Brad was because he (1) had no experience as a head coach prior to starting and (2) he took over a team that is actually expected to win.

I believe this approach is called the Thibs.

[liam]

Pritchard should be playing. He just put up 9 pts and 3 asts in 14 minutes yesterday. He stretches the floor and makes the passes. Ime is playing a tight playoff rotation so there's not time past the top seven-eight... Pritcahrd needs to shoot more when he does get into a game. He needs to be more aggressive and he needs to take flopping lessons from Smart and Schroder, two of the best, to keep defenders honest. Pritchard, Romeo, and Nesmith all looked better last year, there is probably a reason for that.

In garbage time, against their worst players.  He has played better than I thought as a starter this year.

Payton Pritchard has averaged 14.0 points, 5.5 rebounds and 4.5 assists in 2 games as a starter this season.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/peyton-pritchard-starter-stats

But something out there does not pass the eye test.  We've all seen him disappear when an athletic lengthy guy guards him.  I see his ceiling as a Steve Kerr bench guy shooting specialist at best.  I would love to be wrong.

Word is we are buyers now.   This means we are trying to win more and that short rotation is here to stay barring a trade.

Yeah, a shooter off the bench should be his role. It's not like we have a glut of shooters.

True, but the problem is if he’s just a shooter, is he good enough to get minutes?  In other words, if his only value is that once every four possession he attempts a three, is that worth having him on the court for the other three offensive possessions where he contributes little (he’s too small to set a screen, he’s not a good enough shooter to create gravity for the defense, his handle and passing are average), and the four defensive possessions where he’s attacked?  I think he needs to either be able to get his shot quicker off the catch, so he can shoot coming off of screens which creates movement in the offense, or be a better playmaker for others.  The former is Eddie House, the latter is Seth Curry.  Right now he makes 28-footers because that’s how he creates the space from defenders, but when he’s off ball he just stands in that space until the ball finds him, because if he relocates he might find himself too close to a defender and be unable to get off his shot (which leads to a lot of dribbling).

Neither Seth Curry nor House really had their careers take off until they were 26, so there’s still time for him.  I don’t think that time for him is this year — working on getting your shot off on the move is something that should happen as part of daily practice sessions with coaches, and not something that you try to develop off of game reps.

Coaching is sticking him in the corner and he's of no use if no one passes him the ball.

Pritchard per 36 is 14 pts 4.6 rbs 4.9 Asts Ft% 100, 3pt% 37 2pt% 40

Perfect example of the limitations and faults of the per36 stats. What good are those stats if the player isn't good enough to earn more than 13 minutes a game?

No good. You have to play to put up numbers. If they don't want those guys move them. No sense of having players on your roster that you don't trust to play. Too many projects on this roster. Either play guys or move them.

Then move Pritchard, because come playoff time, as Dons alluded to above, he is unplayable. Massive liability on both ends when playing against the best teams, best players and best defenders in a playoff format. Might as well paint a giant bullseye on his uniform.

If they have no faith in him trade him.

This doesn’t make any sense. You can’t trade a player who can’t play. He has no value.

I’m confused about what your point is.

I don't think he has no value. He has no value to a team that won't play him. There's a difference. Bane had no value to us, Strus had no value to us, Mathews had no value for us but other teams found value in them. One man's trash...

This still doesn’t make any sense. We never had bane. Strus has showed up in a very specific offense and Mathews plays for the worst team in the nba.

There is no conspiracy to keep Peyton on the bench. Ime is currently playing 8 guys against his will. If the other dudes could play, they would be playing.

I’m confused as to why you are committed to the belief that pp not playing is some conspiracy.

You’re right, if he were on the rockets, he may average 12 a game on decent stats. But that doesn’t mean that team would be better.

We drafted Bane and traded him for nothing. That's a fact.

I didn't ever say that. That is made up. I said one man's trash is another man's treasure. They don't play him. If a guy is unplayable you get rid of him. we have 7 unplayable guys on our roster and that's too many. I don't care if he plays or not but you can't have seven unplayable guys on your team. We could've gone to the finals during the lock out year but we had 9 unplayable guys that year. You need at least 10-11 playable guys on your team. They don't have to all be world beaters but they all have to be playable.

"Bane was selected with the 30th pick in the 2020 NBA draft by the Boston Celtics."

No, and you have been told this time and time again. That pick was traded to Memphis but because it was a draft day trade that couldn't be approved until later in the day/week, Boston selected Bane under the direction of Memphis.

There is nothing anywhere that has come out that if Boston kept the pick it would have been Bane. Why you can't accept these facts is bewildering.

I would've taken Bane at 14. He was there for the taking and was NBA-ready. We did pick him and trade for 2 second picks we used to rent Fournier. The pick was Bane and he would've been the best of the three picks that year. It was stupid at the time and it's been a pattern of just wasting picks when we had all those first round picks. Is there some kind of proof we would've taken someone else that I'm unaware of? The fact remains BANE was drafted by the BOSTON CELTICS. and dumped for nothing.

[Kiorrik]

"pattern of just wasting picks"

Do we really need to trot out the statistics again, that show Danny as a league top drafter?

[Atzar]

We picked him for the Grizzlies because that’s who they told us to pick in order to complete the trade.

The only reason our name is attached to him at all is because of a peculiarity of the trade timing.  But we never selected him to make him a Celtic. 

[liam]

We picked him for the Grizzlies because that’s who they told us to pick in order to complete the trade.

The only reason our name is attached to him at all is because of a peculiarity of the trade timing.  But we never selected him to make him a Celtic.

Bane at 30 was a steal and we missed it when it was right there.