Why is Payton Pritchard rotting away on the bench ?

[slamtheking]

Pritchard should be playing. He just put up 9 pts and 3 asts in 14 minutes yesterday. He stretches the floor and makes the passes. Ime is playing a tight playoff rotation so there's not time past the top seven-eight... Pritcahrd needs to shoot more when he does get into a game. He needs to be more aggressive and he needs to take flopping lessons from Smart and Schroder, two of the best, to keep defenders honest. Pritchard, Romeo, and Nesmith all looked better last year, there is probably a reason for that.

As we saw last night, he certainly has a place on the floor against a team where the best players available are Patty Mills and the ghost of Blake Griffin.

There aren’t that many of those teams in the league, though.

watching the end of the game last night I thought the Nets scrubs were looking better than ours.  didn't see anyone demonstrate they need more minutes.  Pritchard is too easily flustered by a full court press -- not that Nesmith or Romeo showed the proper instincts to come back to help him out. 

[Celtics2021]

Pritchard should be playing. He just put up 9 pts and 3 asts in 14 minutes yesterday. He stretches the floor and makes the passes. Ime is playing a tight playoff rotation so there's not time past the top seven-eight... Pritcahrd needs to shoot more when he does get into a game. He needs to be more aggressive and he needs to take flopping lessons from Smart and Schroder, two of the best, to keep defenders honest. Pritchard, Romeo, and Nesmith all looked better last year, there is probably a reason for that.

As we saw last night, he certainly has a place on the floor against a team where the best players available are Patty Mills and the ghost of Blake Griffin.

There aren’t that many of those teams in the league, though.

watching the end of the game last night I thought the Nets scrubs were looking better than ours.  didn't see anyone demonstrate they need more minutes.  Pritchard is too easily flustered by a full court press -- not that Nesmith or Romeo showed the proper instincts to come back to help him out.

Our scrubs outscored theirs by 9 points in the 4th quarter, so maybe your eyes deceived you?

That said, I wouldn’t be excited if Pritchard suddenly started getting 15-20 minutes a night.

[LilRip]

I'm wondering if Payton might be better suited to playing more like a 2 guard.

Perhaps expending more energy fighting through screens looking for open shot opportunities - much like Ray Allen did during his Celtic days. Rather than acting as a playmaker. Thus, cutting back on his dribbling.

I see him as a 6'1" SG. He doesn't have the speed, vision or ability to make others better that a PG needs, but he is a great catch and shoot type guy. Unfortunately, at 6'1" and with his defensive liabilities, you can't play him at SG for more than 2-3 minutes a half. I would have no problem moving him, Langford or Nesmith in a deal.

This. PP is not a PG. He just has the height of one. But his vision and playmaking are seriously lacking.

If PP can learn to move off the ball and develop more of a shooter’s mentality, I think he can carve out a role like Eddie House (who can be a valuable contributor off the bench on a contender).

[footey]

Pritchard should be playing. He just put up 9 pts and 3 asts in 14 minutes yesterday. He stretches the floor and makes the passes. Ime is playing a tight playoff rotation so there's not time past the top seven-eight... Pritcahrd needs to shoot more when he does get into a game. He needs to be more aggressive and he needs to take flopping lessons from Smart and Schroder, two of the best, to keep defenders honest. Pritchard, Romeo, and Nesmith all looked better last year, there is probably a reason for that.

As we saw last night, he certainly has a place on the floor against a team where the best players available are Patty Mills and the ghost of Blake Griffin.

There aren’t that many of those teams in the league, though.

watching the end of the game last night I thought the Nets scrubs were looking better than ours.  didn't see anyone demonstrate they need more minutes.  Pritchard is too easily flustered by a full court press -- not that Nesmith or Romeo showed the proper instincts to come back to help him out.

And yet our scrubs outscored their scrubs, so your observation does not line up with what in fact happened.  Initially they struggled, but then started to play well and outplayed BKLN bench.

[Kernewek]

Pritchard should be playing. He just put up 9 pts and 3 asts in 14 minutes yesterday. He stretches the floor and makes the passes. Ime is playing a tight playoff rotation so there's not time past the top seven-eight... Pritcahrd needs to shoot more when he does get into a game. He needs to be more aggressive and he needs to take flopping lessons from Smart and Schroder, two of the best, to keep defenders honest. Pritchard, Romeo, and Nesmith all looked better last year, there is probably a reason for that.

As we saw last night, he certainly has a place on the floor against a team where the best players available are Patty Mills and the ghost of Blake Griffin.

There aren’t that many of those teams in the league, though.

watching the end of the game last night I thought the Nets scrubs were looking better than ours.  didn't see anyone demonstrate they need more minutes.  Pritchard is too easily flustered by a full court press -- not that Nesmith or Romeo showed the proper instincts to come back to help him out.

Possibly but there was some broadcast problem happening so I ended up missing most of the fourth as TNT played the (much more competitive) Sixers/Suns game.

[footey]

I'm wondering if Payton might be better suited to playing more like a 2 guard.

Perhaps expending more energy fighting through screens looking for open shot opportunities - much like Ray Allen did during his Celtic days. Rather than acting as a playmaker. Thus, cutting back on his dribbling.

I see him as a 6'1" SG. He doesn't have the speed, vision or ability to make others better that a PG needs, but he is a great catch and shoot type guy. Unfortunately, at 6'1" and with his defensive liabilities, you can't play him at SG for more than 2-3 minutes a half. I would have no problem moving him, Langford or Nesmith in a deal.

This. PP is not a PG. He just has the height of one. But his vision and playmaking are seriously lacking.

If PP can learn to move off the ball and develop more of a shooter’s mentality, I think he can carve out a role like Eddie House (who can be a valuable contributor off the bench on a contender).

Not buying.  PP defensive shortcomings are exaggerated; he tends to hold his own, and has a good grasp of switching out when needed.  As far as not having the vision to be a point guard, disagree.  His rookie year he made some great passes, in fact was one of the few back then who exploited Rob on alley oops early on.  His lack of quickness is more than made up by his elite ball handling skills, and his ability to leverage his body to protect  the ball on drives and shots.  I don't think he is going to be a starting PG, because his size and lack of quickness does not allow for elite defense, which is what our system requires from its coach.  But certainly bench back up PG is more than in the cards for him.  Just because he is a great 3 point shooter (he is) doesn't mean he should only be considered a shooting guard. Dude needs more reps at PG.

[Celtics4ever]

Pritchard should be playing. He just put up 9 pts and 3 asts in 14 minutes yesterday. He stretches the floor and makes the passes. Ime is playing a tight playoff rotation so there's not time past the top seven-eight... Pritcahrd needs to shoot more when he does get into a game. He needs to be more aggressive and he needs to take flopping lessons from Smart and Schroder, two of the best, to keep defenders honest. Pritchard, Romeo, and Nesmith all looked better last year, there is probably a reason for that.

In garbage time, against their worst players.  He has played better than I thought as a starter this year.

Payton Pritchard has averaged 14.0 points, 5.5 rebounds and 4.5 assists in 2 games as a starter this season.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/peyton-pritchard-starter-stats

But something out there does not pass the eye test.  We've all seen him disappear when an athletic lengthy guy guards him.  I see his ceiling as a Steve Kerr bench guy shooting specialist at best.  I would love to be wrong.

Word is we are buyers now.   This means we are trying to win more and that short rotation is here to stay barring a trade.

[nickagneta]

Pritchard should be playing. He just put up 9 pts and 3 asts in 14 minutes yesterday. He stretches the floor and makes the passes. Ime is playing a tight playoff rotation so there's not time past the top seven-eight... Pritcahrd needs to shoot more when he does get into a game. He needs to be more aggressive and he needs to take flopping lessons from Smart and Schroder, two of the best, to keep defenders honest. Pritchard, Romeo, and Nesmith all looked better last year, there is probably a reason for that.

As we saw last night, he certainly has a place on the floor against a team where the best players available are Patty Mills and the ghost of Blake Griffin.

There aren’t that many of those teams in the league, though.

watching the end of the game last night I thought the Nets scrubs were looking better than ours.  didn't see anyone demonstrate they need more minutes.  Pritchard is too easily flustered by a full court press -- not that Nesmith or Romeo showed the proper instincts to come back to help him out.

And yet our scrubs outscored their scrubs, so your observation does not line up with what in fact happened.  Initially they struggled, but then started to play well and outplayed BKLN bench.

Did our scrubs outscore them though? Schröder and Freedom scored 9 points in the 4th quarter. I don't consider them scrubs.

[Celtics2021]

Pritchard should be playing. He just put up 9 pts and 3 asts in 14 minutes yesterday. He stretches the floor and makes the passes. Ime is playing a tight playoff rotation so there's not time past the top seven-eight... Pritcahrd needs to shoot more when he does get into a game. He needs to be more aggressive and he needs to take flopping lessons from Smart and Schroder, two of the best, to keep defenders honest. Pritchard, Romeo, and Nesmith all looked better last year, there is probably a reason for that.

As we saw last night, he certainly has a place on the floor against a team where the best players available are Patty Mills and the ghost of Blake Griffin.

There aren’t that many of those teams in the league, though.

watching the end of the game last night I thought the Nets scrubs were looking better than ours.  didn't see anyone demonstrate they need more minutes.  Pritchard is too easily flustered by a full court press -- not that Nesmith or Romeo showed the proper instincts to come back to help him out.

And yet our scrubs outscored their scrubs, so your observation does not line up with what in fact happened.  Initially they struggled, but then started to play well and outplayed BKLN bench.

Did our scrubs outscore them though? Schröder and Freedom scored 9 points in the 4th quarter. I don't consider them scrubs.

Freedom is a scrub on this team, yes.  Nesmith or Romeo sometimes get to crack the non-garbage time minutes when everyone is healthy.  Freedom has been stapled to the bench until the final minutes of late.

Also, the garbage time group was a +10 once Fernando checked in for Schroder.  They were actually outscored by 1 in the 4th while Schroder was playing with the rest of the scrubs, so for sure, the scrubs outscored the Nets.

[BruceBanner18]

I don’t get it. One of the best shooting prospects last season. Great PG skills. He’s not Jimmer Fredette on the defensive side of the ball. He can actually guard halfway decent.

We need to develop this kid. Somehow, someway. I know he’s not Van Fleet on defense, but he’s like Fred in a lot of other attributes. It’s disgusting how man DNP’s -Coaches Decisions he’s logged. Not good.

Great shooter but don't really agree with the great point guard skills part.  I've never been impressed with his passing or running of the team.

Or his dribbling.

Again, he's undersized and struggles under pressure due to it. Doesn't have the crazy athleticism of IT or speed of DS or PG skills of Barea to make up for it.

Exactly.  Once he decides that he's going to drive past his defender he doesn't always lose the guy entirely, and he doesn't really seem to see the court and make point guard/high IQ decisions on these drives either.

That, and he picks up his dribble at ill advised moments.

He literally could keep dribbling but often picks it up because he sees 2 or 3 people in front of him.

JT/JB have this happen too - they can pass out because they're tall enough.

PP, ehhh not so much


_{.edit: it's actually kinda fun watching for this happen during games - do recommend.}

I agree with all this assessment but do his shortcomings out weigh his +40% 3 pt shooting and range?

Well the problem is that he's running the offense too often. Because Dennis mainly looks for his own shot, instead of trying to get PP wide open.

Maybe it's partly a problem with the schemes but the point is that with Smart/Schröder/JRich at the point, they create for themselves.

PP can't do that.

So it's more a depth issue than anything.

All great points. He is a shooter without a clear position bc of his size and skill set. I don't think he'll ever be a lead guard or shot creator. His work should go into off ball movement like Reddick, Hield, Robinson. It feels like that is more attainable skill set then expecting him to be FVV or Paul.

[moiso]

I'm wondering if Payton might be better suited to playing more like a 2 guard.

Perhaps expending more energy fighting through screens looking for open shot opportunities - much like Ray Allen did during his Celtic days. Rather than acting as a playmaker. Thus, cutting back on his dribbling.

I see him as a 6'1" SG. He doesn't have the speed, vision or ability to make others better that a PG needs, but he is a great catch and shoot type guy. Unfortunately, at 6'1" and with his defensive liabilities, you can't play him at SG for more than 2-3 minutes a half. I would have no problem moving him, Langford or Nesmith in a deal.

This. PP is not a PG. He just has the height of one. But his vision and playmaking are seriously lacking.

If PP can learn to move off the ball and develop more of a shooter’s mentality, I think he can carve out a role like Eddie House (who can be a valuable contributor off the bench on a contender).

Not buying.  PP defensive shortcomings are exaggerated; he tends to hold his own, and has a good grasp of switching out when needed.  As far as not having the vision to be a point guard, disagree.  His rookie year he made some great passes, in fact was one of the few back then who exploited Rob on alley oops early on.  His lack of quickness is more than made up by his elite ball handling skills, and his ability to leverage his body to protect  the ball on drives and shots.  I don't think he is going to be a starting PG, because his size and lack of quickness does not allow for elite defense, which is what our system requires from its coach.  But certainly bench back up PG is more than in the cards for him.  Just because he is a great 3 point shooter (he is) doesn't mean he should only be considered a shooting guard. Dude needs more reps at PG.

I don't see the elite ball handling.  And I certainly don't see any of the craftiness that comes with being an elite ball handler.

[liam]

Pritchard should be playing. He just put up 9 pts and 3 asts in 14 minutes yesterday. He stretches the floor and makes the passes. Ime is playing a tight playoff rotation so there's not time past the top seven-eight... Pritcahrd needs to shoot more when he does get into a game. He needs to be more aggressive and he needs to take flopping lessons from Smart and Schroder, two of the best, to keep defenders honest. Pritchard, Romeo, and Nesmith all looked better last year, there is probably a reason for that.

As we saw last night, he certainly has a place on the floor against a team where the best players available are Patty Mills and the ghost of Blake Griffin.

There aren’t that many of those teams in the league, though.

He can only play when he gets minutes and then only play against who's in front of him. He probably ends up on another team like Strus, Garrison Mathews, and Bane and people will say "Who knew shooters were so valuable? "

[liam]

Pritchard should be playing. He just put up 9 pts and 3 asts in 14 minutes yesterday. He stretches the floor and makes the passes. Ime is playing a tight playoff rotation so there's not time past the top seven-eight... Pritcahrd needs to shoot more when he does get into a game. He needs to be more aggressive and he needs to take flopping lessons from Smart and Schroder, two of the best, to keep defenders honest. Pritchard, Romeo, and Nesmith all looked better last year, there is probably a reason for that.

In garbage time, against their worst players.  He has played better than I thought as a starter this year.

Payton Pritchard has averaged 14.0 points, 5.5 rebounds and 4.5 assists in 2 games as a starter this season.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/peyton-pritchard-starter-stats

But something out there does not pass the eye test.  We've all seen him disappear when an athletic lengthy guy guards him.  I see his ceiling as a Steve Kerr bench guy shooting specialist at best.  I would love to be wrong.

Word is we are buyers now.   This means we are trying to win more and that short rotation is here to stay barring a trade.

Yeah, a shooter off the bench should be his role. It's not like we have a glut of shooters.

[makaveli]

he can't play defense, or use speed to get his own shots or for his teammates.

basically he is a catch and shoot player who gets abused on defense.

[Atzar]

I don't see the elite ball handling.  And I certainly don't see any of the craftiness that comes with being an elite ball handler.

Yeah.  He has the crossovers and all of that nice stuff, but he can't generate space with it against NBA-level defenders so what are we really doing here?  And it's likely that it isn't an experience/savvy thing (which can be learned, given time), but rather a quickness thing (which he's stuck with). 

He looks like a 6'1" shooting specialist to me.  I think he basically needs to play with a wing who can create and run the show for him, and there aren't a ton of teams who have one of those coming off the bench. 

For better or worse, I still think Schroder is traded by the end of the day tomorrow, and Pritchard will get his shot over the next couple of months.  So here's hoping he proves me wrong.