Why Brown must be traded at some point

[Ogaju]

Keep both Jays, add better players around them.

This. Even if you get a similar talent, it won't move the needle enough.

We have some bad players that need replacing. Don't replace one of the 2 good ones plz.

That post is ambiguous because ‘better players’ around them’ could be inclusive or exclusive of both Jays or one of them. An important point since many have argued that neither is a number 1 on a championship team.

[dannyboy35]

  When the Celtics had a Lott of shot makers in the past with the jays I dint remember a problem about these guys playing together. If we had just Hayward and Rozier production I just don’t see this problem. It wasn’t in the past. So I don’t believe two guys can’t coexist. To me, it’s bad coaching snd maybe the two are suddenly UNWILLING. But that seems weird.
  Either way I’d much rather cut bait in any way with especially non shooting guards Luke smart, Schroeder and JRich.

[blink]

Brown had 36 shots and one assist. This is as down on him as I have been.

I’d wait to see how many potential assists he had tonight before coming to such a conclusion.  Guys were missing wide open shots all night.  By the end of it guys were passing up wide open shots too.  Seemed like Jaylen was the only guy who wasn’t afraid to shoot, they were so collectively bad.

He had 8 potential assists. When the team shoots 10% from 3 this is what happens. He started by creating good shots for teammates but when they didn’t hit he fell back into heroball. Have we seen that movie before from Brown and Tatum? Heck, we even saw it from Schroeder when Ime was letting him close.

We have seen it before with Paul Pierce as well.   

[Ogaju]

This post has nothing to do with last night. I have been saying this for years in various threads.  I just finally put it all in one place.  The simple reality is Boston doesn't need Brown to be successful, while conversely Boston needs Tatum. Tatum doesn't even need to play well, he just has to be on the floor.  We've seen this time and time again, year after year.  We are now getting close to the point of no return.  It is time.  Those 2 just don't work, why delay the inevitable.

What realistic two way trade of Brown will make our team clearly better?  And please don't contrive a complicated 3 team deal, those almost never materialize.

That is hard to say, but there are trade demands by stars that come along (we've seen Leonard and Harden, for example happen).

But if I was probing, I think you could potentially get a young player trade with the Warriors something centered on Wiseman and Kuminga, for example (Brown, Freedom for Wiseman, Kuminga, Moody, and Looney works financially as an example).

Simmons would be out there, but I think you need a 2nd trade in place to get a better 2nd scoring option as I wouldn't want Simmons needing to be a 2nd scorer.

I'd call up Denver and see if they'd part with Murray and Porter, Jr.  That might appeal to Denver as they could better utilize Jokic.  Obvious risk for the C's given Murray and MPJ are both injured, but that is a trade that could pay off big time down the line if Murray and MPJ got healthy.

I'd call the Cavs and see if I could Sexton + Allen + Okoro for Brown (the Cavs then go with Garland, Brown, Mobley as their core). 

I don't know if the Suns would move Ayton, but I'd certainly ask.

The Hawks could be interesting something like Collins, Huerter, Hunter or Reddish, pick for Brown

Of course I'd call the Pelicans and inquire about Zion, though I don't think they'd move him.

Siakam plus something else I might consider (depending on what the something else is). 

I wouldn't trade Brown for Beal, but that is probably a potential trade out there. 

I'm sure there are other trades that are potentially out there.  I wouldn't trade Brown just to trade him, but if the right trade comes along, I do think it is something that needs to be done and the C's should really be exploring what is out there.

How could you possibly think any of your proposed trade is possible given your indictment of Brown? Any team that reads your OP, and believes half of it, which I do by the way, is not giving you a haul for Brown. Maybe you get a Simmons for Brown, and that is it in the examples you have given.

[Who]

The Clippers are a good team to watch with Kawhi and PG13 in terms of both their success & their difficulties playing together. They mirror the Jays in many ways. Just older more developed versions of the Jays.

The Clips (1) often have problems with ball-movement & PG play. (2) They struggled to make the most out of quality offensive minded role players like Lou Will and Montrez Harrell. (3) Their teams have had chemistry problems throughout their time there.

It'll be interesting to see what more we can learn from that duo & team in the years to come. Mistakes we avoid. Lessons we can learn. 

[Moranis]

This post has nothing to do with last night. I have been saying this for years in various threads.  I just finally put it all in one place.  The simple reality is Boston doesn't need Brown to be successful, while conversely Boston needs Tatum. Tatum doesn't even need to play well, he just has to be on the floor.  We've seen this time and time again, year after year.  We are now getting close to the point of no return.  It is time.  Those 2 just don't work, why delay the inevitable.

What realistic two way trade of Brown will make our team clearly better?  And please don't contrive a complicated 3 team deal, those almost never materialize.

That is hard to say, but there are trade demands by stars that come along (we've seen Leonard and Harden, for example happen).

But if I was probing, I think you could potentially get a young player trade with the Warriors something centered on Wiseman and Kuminga, for example (Brown, Freedom for Wiseman, Kuminga, Moody, and Looney works financially as an example).

Simmons would be out there, but I think you need a 2nd trade in place to get a better 2nd scoring option as I wouldn't want Simmons needing to be a 2nd scorer.

I'd call up Denver and see if they'd part with Murray and Porter, Jr.  That might appeal to Denver as they could better utilize Jokic.  Obvious risk for the C's given Murray and MPJ are both injured, but that is a trade that could pay off big time down the line if Murray and MPJ got healthy.

I'd call the Cavs and see if I could Sexton + Allen + Okoro for Brown (the Cavs then go with Garland, Brown, Mobley as their core). 

I don't know if the Suns would move Ayton, but I'd certainly ask.

The Hawks could be interesting something like Collins, Huerter, Hunter or Reddish, pick for Brown

Of course I'd call the Pelicans and inquire about Zion, though I don't think they'd move him.

Siakam plus something else I might consider (depending on what the something else is). 

I wouldn't trade Brown for Beal, but that is probably a potential trade out there. 

I'm sure there are other trades that are potentially out there.  I wouldn't trade Brown just to trade him, but if the right trade comes along, I do think it is something that needs to be done and the C's should really be exploring what is out there.

How could you possibly think any of your proposed trade is possible given your indictment of Brown? Any team that reads your OP, and believes half of it, which I do by the way, is not giving you a haul for Brown. Maybe you get a Simmons for Brown, and that is it in the examples you have given.

Most of those teams have lead dogs, but absolutely could use a guy like Brown who would be a better fit with their player than he is with Tatum.  Trae Young, for example, would be a great fit with Brown.  As would Jokic, Embiid, Paul/Booker, etc. 

Brown is an excellent player, he just doesn't mesh well with Tatum.

[Rosco917]

36 shots...zero assists. He had his hands on the ball to THAT degree and could find a single player for an easy basket? That, even when the defense knew he would most-likely go ISO and shoot the ball!

Go back to when Brown was coming out of college. He was a freshman heading to the NBA. The evaluation by college scouts.

"Good athlete, mechanical.... but not a natural basketball player."

[SHAQATTACK]

I’m still stuck in the mindset , we still need a third proven star in  what was hoped that Kyrie and  Hayward would be to lead the team .  The team has been though a mind boggling mess of injuries,  bad luck, and  poor GM decisions mostly in the end by Ainge …who I think did more damage than anybody on these threads is willing to admit after the KG era.

The wait for a fantastic draft pick to fall could take decades, if ever.

We need type of leadership to pull the team out of the funk ,  maybe take chances on the CP3 or Lebron types .  I still worried Stevens is afraid of the top five star players  .  If this true , he needs to go.

This might include trading Brown to put together a team that can compete with the best .  But we need better vision and leadership from Brad and up.

[slamtheking]

36 shots...zero assists. He had his hands on the ball to THAT degree and could find a single player for an easy basket? That, even when the defense knew he would most-likely go ISO and shoot the ball!

Go back to when Brown was coming out of college. He was a freshman heading to the NBA. The evaluation by college scouts.

"Good athlete, mechanical.... but not a natural basketball player."

describe "easy basket".

wide open shot?  he dished for plenty of those but his teammates bricked 8 passes for assists.
Shot near the basket?  who's cutting to the basket?  no one.  Ime has everyone out past the 3 point line as his offensive scheme so when Jaylen drives and passes, he's kicking it out.  when Jaylen is outside with the ball, there's no one cutting to the hoop to get a pass.

on a night with normal shooting, half of his assist passes would have resulted in a bucket.  he'd have 4 assists which isn't great but not horrible for someone who's not your point guard.

Jaylen's strength is as a scorer, not a facilitator.  Ime needs to strategize to play to Jaylen's strengths (when Tatum is out).

[droopdog7]

36 shots...zero assists. He had his hands on the ball to THAT degree and could find a single player for an easy basket? That, even when the defense knew he would most-likely go ISO and shoot the ball!

Go back to when Brown was coming out of college. He was a freshman heading to the NBA. The evaluation by college scouts.

"Good athlete, mechanical.... but not a natural basketball player."

describe "easy basket".

wide open shot?  he dished for plenty of those but his teammates bricked 8 passes for assists.
Shot near the basket?  who's cutting to the basket?  no one.  Ime has everyone out past the 3 point line as his offensive scheme so when Jaylen drives and passes, he's kicking it out.  when Jaylen is outside with the ball, there's no one cutting to the hoop to get a pass.

on a night with normal shooting, half of his assist passes would have resulted in a bucket.  he'd have 4 assists which isn't great but not horrible for someone who's not your point guard.

Jaylen's strength is as a scorer, not a facilitator.  Ime needs to strategize to play to Jaylen's strengths (when Tatum is out).

Why are people wasting time discussing one game?  Brown is a terrible playmaker for others.  That’s pretty much established fact.  The previous two games support that idea and no amount of parsing is going to reverse it.  It’s patently ridiculous to use last night as evidence that he somehow isn’t (or if you prefer, might not be) bad in this area.  It’s bizzaro world is what it is.

[Moranis]

The key part of this is the "at some point" part.  Sure, at some point and for the right deal, I am OK trading Brown but right now is not the time and it is doubtful that we could end up better with what we would get back right now.

I don't not feel that Brown is the problem with the team right now or was ever.  Even if we were able to get say Beal or Lillard, I don't think we end up better.  And if we trade him for say Jeromi Grant?  Or just picks and prospects?

No, the strategy needs to continue to be building around Tatum and Brown.  We are not "at some point" yet.

Oh I think we are pretty close to that point, which is why I made the thread.  I think they need to move Brown this summer if not before.  They cannot go to deep in Tatum's contract without making a move to try and actually field a contender around him.  The longer you wait to trade Brown, the more likely that he and Tatum walk right out the door with nothing to show for it. 

[seancally]

I want an above-average starting PG. To me Smart isn’t it. He’s something good and he impacts winning but he’s not your quarterback. We need a quarterback.

There’s also an emotional problem with this team. I don’t see the grit, nor the swagger, nor the chemistry that the best teams have. Sometimes all it takes is one player to set that tone: KG, peak Lebron, Draymond, CP3, etc. Guys who are both very very good as players (that matters because your top guys need to respect that person) but also generals. We need a general.

To me, those two items speak more to improving our top end, not the periphery. Tatum is capable of being a finals MVP one day, I believe that. Not Brown, and no one else comes remotely close. If Brown maxes out as an All-Star role player (which is what I believe) then you need to move him for a package that remedies the biggest need — high-end talent for a position of need and ideally someone who will set the tone.

[SDceltGuy]

JB is not a leader, playmaker and not an elite at anything.  I’m fine moving in from him.

[showtime]

I'd trade Brown for Ben Simmons or Jamal Murray in a second!

[Rosco917]

I'm tired of listening to his monotone, almost uninterested reaction to another loss.  "Hey yeah we loss, we tried hard, had some good looks but just didn't hit um." We have to work a little harder next time out."

He sounds annoyed with him having to explain. Other than his one demential play, he reminds me of Kawhi.