Report: Dennis Schröder in negotiations with Celtics

[td450]

Langford hasn't shown anything that tells you he can't be a good player either.

Lack of shooting and/or scoring?

I know that last year was weird and perhaps it is not fair to judge him, but his scoring rate was last on the team (outside of Mo Wagner).  Per possession, he was significantly worse than anybody else.  He also had the lowest 2PT% of any player, and the worst three point percentage of any guard or wing.

Langford's injuries and the covid outbreak have prevented him from playing enough for any valid assessment of his abilities. He's missed all the normal avenues to hone and display skills: summer leagues , pre-seasons and G league opportunities, and hasn't had enough minutes in season to play through that. There has been no scrimmaging or working out with other guys. None of that is normal.

He has to step forward this year, but we've learned absolutely nothing about what he can do on offense so far. It is worth giving it a real look before dismissing him as a failure.

[Who]

Nesmith should play as a forward. He does not have the ball-handling or passing ability to play guard. He has the size, length and strength to play forward. He allows the team to play smaller with more shooting more skillful lineups. That is very valuable.

Given the paucity of talent elsewhere among our bench forwards, Nesmith should have no issue getting playing time and is under no threat from a possible signing of Schroder.

[Roy H.]

Langford hasn't shown anything that tells you he can't be a good player either.

Lack of shooting and/or scoring?

I know that last year was weird and perhaps it is not fair to judge him, but his scoring rate was last on the team (outside of Mo Wagner).  Per possession, he was significantly worse than anybody else.  He also had the lowest 2PT% of any player, and the worst three point percentage of any guard or wing.

Langford's injuries and the covid outbreak have prevented him from playing enough for any valid assessment of his abilities. He's missed all the normal avenues to hone and display skills: summer leagues , pre-seasons and G league opportunities, and hasn't had enough minutes in season to play through that. There has been no scrimmaging or working out with other guys. None of that is normal.

He has to step forward this year, but we've learned absolutely nothing about what he can do on offense so far. It is worth giving it a real look before dismissing him as a failure.

At the same time, he was a major disappointment in college, sucked in the G league, and has had horrific shooting and scoring numbers in the NBA.

Is that the type of guy do you want to prioritize on the roster at the expense of actual NBA players?  Nesmith had some of the same issues to overcome (injury, no summer league, training camp or adequate practice) and he actually earned playing time.

[Somebody]

So at least we can all agree that Schroeder wasn't worth Danny Green and a first right?

Sam Presti is a tank commander of the highest order! He keeps collecting picks even faster than Hinkie! At some point, he has to make an aggressive move though. Can't possibly draft all these picks.

Hope Schroder doesn't re-sign with the Lakers. I get that he wants to be a starter, but at the end of the day the Lakers can offer him way more money than the C's. If they re-sign him on a relatively cheap contract, then it was probably a fair trade for both teams (at least value-wise).

Basketball-wise, I wouldn't have made the trade for the Lakers. Schroder is at his best when playing with the ball in his hands. Don't like the fit next to LeBron. Fwiw, I don't like the fit next to Tatum either.

Exactly, I said that the Thunder committed highway robbery and people crapped on me for it lol, it was just a great trade by Presti. Scaling surely isn't that difficult of a concept to understand, right?

Re: fit with Tatum, we're signing Schroeder on a Bosman to share PG duties with Smart, so it's much more palatable than trading a better role player and a first round pick for him to start next to an on-ball engine.

[Surferdad]

Langford hasn't shown anything that tells you he can't be a good player either.

Lack of shooting and/or scoring?

I know that last year was weird and perhaps it is not fair to judge him, but his scoring rate was last on the team (outside of Mo Wagner).  Per possession, he was significantly worse than anybody else.  He also had the lowest 2PT% of any player, and the worst three point percentage of any guard or wing.

Langford's injuries and the covid outbreak have prevented him from playing enough for any valid assessment of his abilities. He's missed all the normal avenues to hone and display skills: summer leagues , pre-seasons and G league opportunities, and hasn't had enough minutes in season to play through that. There has been no scrimmaging or working out with other guys. None of that is normal.

He has to step forward this year, but we've learned absolutely nothing about what he can do on offense so far. It is worth giving it a real look before dismissing him as a failure.

At the same time, he was a major disappointment in college, sucked in the G league, and has had horrific shooting and scoring numbers in the NBA.

Is that the type of guy do you want to prioritize on the roster at the expense of actual NBA players?  Nesmith had some of the same issues to overcome (injury, no summer league, training camp or adequate practice) and he actually earned playing time.

After watching him make comments in the presser a few days ago, I have to say that I'm not optimistic that this kid will succeed.  Something is not right.  He lacks confidence and that's not good in a competitive sport.  For his own sake, I hope he has some early success (like in SL) that he can build upon.

[td450]

Langford hasn't shown anything that tells you he can't be a good player either.

Lack of shooting and/or scoring?

I know that last year was weird and perhaps it is not fair to judge him, but his scoring rate was last on the team (outside of Mo Wagner).  Per possession, he was significantly worse than anybody else.  He also had the lowest 2PT% of any player, and the worst three point percentage of any guard or wing.

Langford's injuries and the covid outbreak have prevented him from playing enough for any valid assessment of his abilities. He's missed all the normal avenues to hone and display skills: summer leagues , pre-seasons and G league opportunities, and hasn't had enough minutes in season to play through that. There has been no scrimmaging or working out with other guys. None of that is normal.

He has to step forward this year, but we've learned absolutely nothing about what he can do on offense so far. It is worth giving it a real look before dismissing him as a failure.

At the same time, he was a major disappointment in college, sucked in the G league, and has had horrific shooting and scoring numbers in the NBA.

Is that the type of guy do you want to prioritize on the roster at the expense of actual NBA players?  Nesmith had some of the same issues to overcome (injury, no summer league, training camp or adequate practice) and he actually earned playing time.

He scored 16.5 ppg for Indiana as a freshman, and played 4 G-league games. Perhaps you are overselling you position just a bit.

I want him to play 15-20 minutes per night in a predictable rotation for 20 games, and then we can decide with some real information. If you don't do that, you don't find out what you have with any player. You just waste a #14 pick because you aren't willing to invest the minutes to see.

[footey]

Langford hasn't shown anything that tells you he can't be a good player either.

Lack of shooting and/or scoring?

I know that last year was weird and perhaps it is not fair to judge him, but his scoring rate was last on the team (outside of Mo Wagner).  Per possession, he was significantly worse than anybody else.  He also had the lowest 2PT% of any player, and the worst three point percentage of any guard or wing.

Langford's injuries and the covid outbreak have prevented him from playing enough for any valid assessment of his abilities. He's missed all the normal avenues to hone and display skills: summer leagues , pre-seasons and G league opportunities, and hasn't had enough minutes in season to play through that. There has been no scrimmaging or working out with other guys. None of that is normal.

He has to step forward this year, but we've learned absolutely nothing about what he can do on offense so far. It is worth giving it a real look before dismissing him as a failure.

At the same time, he was a major disappointment in college, sucked in the G league, and has had horrific shooting and scoring numbers in the NBA.

Is that the type of guy do you want to prioritize on the roster at the expense of actual NBA players?  Nesmith had some of the same issues to overcome (injury, no summer league, training camp or adequate practice) and he actually earned playing time.

Fake narrative.

[Roy H.]

Langford hasn't shown anything that tells you he can't be a good player either.

Lack of shooting and/or scoring?

I know that last year was weird and perhaps it is not fair to judge him, but his scoring rate was last on the team (outside of Mo Wagner).  Per possession, he was significantly worse than anybody else.  He also had the lowest 2PT% of any player, and the worst three point percentage of any guard or wing.

Langford's injuries and the covid outbreak have prevented him from playing enough for any valid assessment of his abilities. He's missed all the normal avenues to hone and display skills: summer leagues , pre-seasons and G league opportunities, and hasn't had enough minutes in season to play through that. There has been no scrimmaging or working out with other guys. None of that is normal.

He has to step forward this year, but we've learned absolutely nothing about what he can do on offense so far. It is worth giving it a real look before dismissing him as a failure.

At the same time, he was a major disappointment in college, sucked in the G league, and has had horrific shooting and scoring numbers in the NBA.

Is that the type of guy do you want to prioritize on the roster at the expense of actual NBA players?  Nesmith had some of the same issues to overcome (injury, no summer league, training camp or adequate practice) and he actually earned playing time.

Fake narrative.

How so?  It all looks pretty factual.

[SparzWizard]

This negotiation is taking so long lol. Is it not happening? Patience is growing thin here

[Surferdad]

This negotiation is taking so long lol. Is it not happening? Patience is growing thin here

Don't hold your breath.  They would have to dump Dunn's contract to sign DS with the non-taxpayer MLE.  I predict it doesn't happen.

[Roy H.]

This negotiation is taking so long lol. Is it not happening? Patience is growing thin here

Don't hold your breath.  They would have to dump Dunn's contract to sign DS with the non-taxpayer MLE.  I predict it doesn't happen.

We can still offer the taxpayer MLE.  It depends what Schroder’s goals are.

[Moranis]

Except we also have Langford and Nesmith, and those guys need minutes at the two spot too.

The current situation without Shroder already creates a minutes crunch. It is just plain stupid not to play Langford, Nesmith and Pritchard regular, significant minutes, and if you play someone like Richardson or Shroder instead, that's just not intelligent roster management. They may be a little better in the short term, but they aren't getting you anywhere.

With where Tatum and Brown are at as players, I can't see passing on useful veterans in order to guarantee Langford 20 minutes a night he wouldn't otherwise earn.

I guess you can just assert without argument that these veterans are "useful" and that Langford wouldn't "earn" his minutes. Langford and Nesmith are both 21. They have both shown significant promise but need minutes.

They both have the potential to be better than Richardson ever was. They might not be. But it is stupid to not provide the resources to find out. No NBA team can afford to toss aside two consecutive #14 choices because they feel compelled to play vets they find on the trash heap instead.

In the NBA, there isn't some high school like practice regime where someone can earn minutes behind the scenes. Game minutes are the only way players develop. Richardson is fully baked, a borderline starter or rotation player. If Langford and or Nesmith develop to their full potential, that could completely change the team's future.

What if Nesmith became an 18 ppg scorer who shot 3's over 40%? Is that so crazy? He's already looking like he'll be a plus defender. That would change the team. I want to find out. I don't need to know that Richardson can score 13 ppg and shoot 36% from 3. I know that is who he is.

We need to develop talent. We can't just swap for it and expect to make the finals.

Langford hasn't shown anything that tells me he could be a good player, and I don't think Richardson is going to take Nesmith's minutes at all.

Langford hasn't shown anything that tells you he can't be a good player either. It is fair to be worried about the strange string of circumstances that has prevented him from playing so far, but none of that is necessarily chronic. We have him, and we should invest enough minutes to find out what he is. We have not been able to do so thus far, and playing Richardson 10-15 less minutes for 15-20 games seems to me to be well worth it.

I want to see what we have with both #14's, not just one, and Josh Richardson can wait until we find out.

Sure he has.  Langford can't stay on the court because he hasn't been good enough to stay on the court even when he has been healthy.  He has a career ORTG of 95 and a career DRTG of 113.  He has one of the worst FG%'s in NBA history.  I get that it is only 50 games, but that is still 50 games and he has been terrible.  Edwards has been better than him and it hasn't been close.  Let that sink in for a moment. 

Langford was a highly recruited player for a reason and maybe he will finally be healthy and show some promise, but he has been awful.  If he was a 2nd round pick he might already be out of the league awful. 

[BruceBanner18]

Except we also have Langford and Nesmith, and those guys need minutes at the two spot too.

The current situation without Shroder already creates a minutes crunch. It is just plain stupid not to play Langford, Nesmith and Pritchard regular, significant minutes, and if you play someone like Richardson or Shroder instead, that's just not intelligent roster management. They may be a little better in the short term, but they aren't getting you anywhere.

With where Tatum and Brown are at as players, I can't see passing on useful veterans in order to guarantee Langford 20 minutes a night he wouldn't otherwise earn.

I guess you can just assert without argument that these veterans are "useful" and that Langford wouldn't "earn" his minutes. Langford and Nesmith are both 21. They have both shown significant promise but need minutes.

They both have the potential to be better than Richardson ever was. They might not be. But it is stupid to not provide the resources to find out. No NBA team can afford to toss aside two consecutive #14 choices because they feel compelled to play vets they find on the trash heap instead.

In the NBA, there isn't some high school like practice regime where someone can earn minutes behind the scenes. Game minutes are the only way players develop. Richardson is fully baked, a borderline starter or rotation player. If Langford and or Nesmith develop to their full potential, that could completely change the team's future.

What if Nesmith became an 18 ppg scorer who shot 3's over 40%? Is that so crazy? He's already looking like he'll be a plus defender. That would change the team. I want to find out. I don't need to know that Richardson can score 13 ppg and shoot 36% from 3. I know that is who he is.

We need to develop talent. We can't just swap for it and expect to make the finals.

Langford hasn't shown anything that tells me he could be a good player, and I don't think Richardson is going to take Nesmith's minutes at all.

Langford hasn't shown anything that tells you he can't be a good player either. It is fair to be worried about the strange string of circumstances that has prevented him from playing so far, but none of that is necessarily chronic. We have him, and we should invest enough minutes to find out what he is. We have not been able to do so thus far, and playing Richardson 10-15 less minutes for 15-20 games seems to me to be well worth it.

I want to see what we have with both #14's, not just one, and Josh Richardson can wait until we find out.

Sure he has.  Langford can't stay on the court because he hasn't been good enough to stay on the court even when he has been healthy.  He has a career ORTG of 95 and a career DRTG of 113.  He has one of the worst FG%'s in NBA history.  I get that it is only 50 games, but that is still 50 games and he has been terrible.  Edwards has been better than him and it hasn't been close.  Let that sink in for a moment. 

Langford was a highly recruited player for a reason and maybe he will finally be healthy and show some promise, but he has been awful.  If he was a 2nd round pick he might already be out of the league awful.

Rubbish. $1000 says Langford and I crush you and Edwards 2v2

[celticsclay]

Except we also have Langford and Nesmith, and those guys need minutes at the two spot too.

The current situation without Shroder already creates a minutes crunch. It is just plain stupid not to play Langford, Nesmith and Pritchard regular, significant minutes, and if you play someone like Richardson or Shroder instead, that's just not intelligent roster management. They may be a little better in the short term, but they aren't getting you anywhere.

With where Tatum and Brown are at as players, I can't see passing on useful veterans in order to guarantee Langford 20 minutes a night he wouldn't otherwise earn.

I guess you can just assert without argument that these veterans are "useful" and that Langford wouldn't "earn" his minutes. Langford and Nesmith are both 21. They have both shown significant promise but need minutes.

They both have the potential to be better than Richardson ever was. They might not be. But it is stupid to not provide the resources to find out. No NBA team can afford to toss aside two consecutive #14 choices because they feel compelled to play vets they find on the trash heap instead.

In the NBA, there isn't some high school like practice regime where someone can earn minutes behind the scenes. Game minutes are the only way players develop. Richardson is fully baked, a borderline starter or rotation player. If Langford and or Nesmith develop to their full potential, that could completely change the team's future.

What if Nesmith became an 18 ppg scorer who shot 3's over 40%? Is that so crazy? He's already looking like he'll be a plus defender. That would change the team. I want to find out. I don't need to know that Richardson can score 13 ppg and shoot 36% from 3. I know that is who he is.

We need to develop talent. We can't just swap for it and expect to make the finals.

Langford hasn't shown anything that tells me he could be a good player, and I don't think Richardson is going to take Nesmith's minutes at all.

Langford hasn't shown anything that tells you he can't be a good player either. It is fair to be worried about the strange string of circumstances that has prevented him from playing so far, but none of that is necessarily chronic. We have him, and we should invest enough minutes to find out what he is. We have not been able to do so thus far, and playing Richardson 10-15 less minutes for 15-20 games seems to me to be well worth it.

I want to see what we have with both #14's, not just one, and Josh Richardson can wait until we find out.

Sure he has.  Langford can't stay on the court because he hasn't been good enough to stay on the court even when he has been healthy.  He has a career ORTG of 95 and a career DRTG of 113.  He has one of the worst FG%'s in NBA history.  I get that it is only 50 games, but that is still 50 games and he has been terrible.  Edwards has been better than him and it hasn't been close.  Let that sink in for a moment. 

Langford was a highly recruited player for a reason and maybe he will finally be healthy and show some promise, but he has been awful.  If he was a 2nd round pick he might already be out of the league awful.

How many of these 50 games has he even fully healthy? Maybe he will never be healthy but pretty silly numbers to derive some meaning from.

[td450]

Except we also have Langford and Nesmith, and those guys need minutes at the two spot too.

The current situation without Shroder already creates a minutes crunch. It is just plain stupid not to play Langford, Nesmith and Pritchard regular, significant minutes, and if you play someone like Richardson or Shroder instead, that's just not intelligent roster management. They may be a little better in the short term, but they aren't getting you anywhere.

With where Tatum and Brown are at as players, I can't see passing on useful veterans in order to guarantee Langford 20 minutes a night he wouldn't otherwise earn.

I guess you can just assert without argument that these veterans are "useful" and that Langford wouldn't "earn" his minutes. Langford and Nesmith are both 21. They have both shown significant promise but need minutes.

They both have the potential to be better than Richardson ever was. They might not be. But it is stupid to not provide the resources to find out. No NBA team can afford to toss aside two consecutive #14 choices because they feel compelled to play vets they find on the trash heap instead.

In the NBA, there isn't some high school like practice regime where someone can earn minutes behind the scenes. Game minutes are the only way players develop. Richardson is fully baked, a borderline starter or rotation player. If Langford and or Nesmith develop to their full potential, that could completely change the team's future.

What if Nesmith became an 18 ppg scorer who shot 3's over 40%? Is that so crazy? He's already looking like he'll be a plus defender. That would change the team. I want to find out. I don't need to know that Richardson can score 13 ppg and shoot 36% from 3. I know that is who he is.

We need to develop talent. We can't just swap for it and expect to make the finals.

Langford hasn't shown anything that tells me he could be a good player, and I don't think Richardson is going to take Nesmith's minutes at all.

Langford hasn't shown anything that tells you he can't be a good player either. It is fair to be worried about the strange string of circumstances that has prevented him from playing so far, but none of that is necessarily chronic. We have him, and we should invest enough minutes to find out what he is. We have not been able to do so thus far, and playing Richardson 10-15 less minutes for 15-20 games seems to me to be well worth it.

I want to see what we have with both #14's, not just one, and Josh Richardson can wait until we find out.

Sure he has.  Langford can't stay on the court because he hasn't been good enough to stay on the court even when he has been healthy.  He has a career ORTG of 95 and a career DRTG of 113.  He has one of the worst FG%'s in NBA history.  I get that it is only 50 games, but that is still 50 games and he has been terrible.  Edwards has been better than him and it hasn't been close.  Let that sink in for a moment. 

Langford was a highly recruited player for a reason and maybe he will finally be healthy and show some promise, but he has been awful.  If he was a 2nd round pick he might already be out of the league awful.

If he had played in 50 games with any semblance of continuity, yes that would be enough. Even 20 games as I've suggested can be enough if you get a predictable role. But his experiences so far are a useless, chopped up jumble.

He may not be any good in the end. But it is stupid not to find out.