Woj: Celtics Trade Tristan Thompson To Atlanta For Kris Dunn, Fernando + A Pick

[colincb]

BRobb:

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2021/08/could-celtics-expand-the-kris-dunn-trade-why-a-delay-signals-potential-new-phase-of-three-team-deal.html

The Celtics made one trade over the weekend official by dealing away Moses Brown to the Dallas Mavericks for veteran wing Josh Richardson. However, the team’s second three-team swap involving big man Tristan Thompson has not been processed yet, opening the door for a bigger transaction as free agency begins this week.

The original trade was agreed upon on Friday per league sources with the Celtics acquiring Kris Dunn and Bruno Fernando from the Atlanta Hawks in exchange for Tristan Thompson. The Hawks then agreed to send Thompson to the Sacramento Kings for guard Delon Wright, expanding the transaction to a three-team swap.

The expectation was that this deal would be completed by Sunday since it conceded with the end of the NBA league year and the expiration of one of Boston’s traded player exceptions (Enes Kanter’s) which would have been useful in pulling off the deal.

However, Sunday came and went with no deal being processed, which means the Kanter trade exception worth $4.7 million has expired unused for Boston. That doesn’t mean the original deal can’t still be executed as planned. Boston has a pair of other trade exceptions they can use to absorb the contracts of Dunn and Fernando while still creating a newer bigger trade exception for Tristan Thompson’s 2021-22 salary of $9.7 million.

Nonetheless, the Celtics in all likelihood did not let a trade exception go to waste this weekend for no good reason. Brad Stevens let that happen for one of two reasons:

1. The Celtics wanted to create a larger traded player exception: This is a simple, albeit more unlikely explanation. Waiting until the new league year to make the trade official allows Boston to create a bigger trade acceptation that’s worth $9.7 million instead of $9.2 million. That small bump could be beneficial down the line in a separate transaction for a bigger salary.

2. Boston and the other teams involved are searching for a way to expand the trade: Atlanta, Sacramento and Boston are all over the cap teams heading into free agency, leaving them limited options to improve their roster without trades. A complex three-team transaction like this involving significant outgoing salary and trade exceptions leaves plenty of avenues for other teams to get involved. Whether the trio of teams wants to serve as a facilitator for another transaction during their offseason or one of the teams wants to try to acquire a different player from a new team by finding a way to package him into this transaction, the opportunity is there to grow this deal.

The Celtics specifically have an opening to take back some more salary in the trade by using Tristan Thompson for salary matching if they find a good match. Since they are taking Dunn and Fernando into trade exceptions, they could take up to $14.8 million in salary in the trade if they didn’t want to create a trade exception with Thompson’s salary.

There are a host of players that make under $15 million and would be more appealing additions for Boston in such a deal. A few possible candidates that would fit into that salary spot were covered back in June as options for the leftover Gordon Hayward trade exception (worth $11 million). However, a few names that could be added to that list include

Malik Beasley $14.3 million

Thaddeus Young: $14.1 million

Joe Ingles: $14 million

Jonas Valanciunas: $14 million

TJ Warren $12.7 million

Marvin Bagley: $11.3 million

Additional compensation would need to be involved for any of those names via draft picks or other players but this is a route the Celtics could elect to pursue based on how their own free agent pursuits pan out. For instance, if Evan Fournier signs elsewhere, the door would be open for a Celtics to potentially take on more salary in a trade than anticipated and stay within budget.

There’s no guarantee a new element of the deal would be agreed upon after the delay but the door is now open for all parties involved to expand this transaction if they find a good fit. Being patient on the free agency front could end up paying off for Boston or another team involved in this original deal.

[Celtics2021]

I think Robb’s math is slightly off.  Since the Celtics would be a taxpayer team after such a trade as he describes, they could only take back 125% of Thompson’s salary, not his salary plus $5 million, so $12.25 million.  This puts us in Nance and Kyle Anderson territory, but not most of the other players he named (I can’t see Bagley being someone who Stevens would be interested in given his concerns about consistent effort and maturity).

That said, salary filler like Carsen Edwards would get us the rest of the way there for the guys on his list.

[DrJasper]

I actually really hope we take a flyer on Bagley. We have a hole at PF and he was the second overall pick not to long ago. I think playing for the kings certainly didn't make him look good, but he still has a lot of potential!

[spikelovetheCelts]

I actually really hope we take a flyer on Bagley. We have a hole at PF and he was the second overall pick not to long ago. I think playing for the kings certainly didn't make him look good, but he still has a lot of potential!

I too think Bagley wouild be awesome for the Celtics.   I hope Brad does expand the trade. I would love to get Reddish too.

[bogg]

For what it's worth, Boston can still eat Dunn into the Kemba TPE and create a full Thompson TPE. Would assume there'd have to be a compelling reason to do that though, as you'd lose the Kemba TPE early in it's lifespan when you otherwise didn't have to.

EDIT: They could actually use the Theis TPE too, and if it's true that waiting until the year flips lets them leave Fernando out of the deal perhaps that's what they're doing, because it would leave the Kemba TPE intact and create a bigger Thompson TPE while saving you Bruno's guaranteed money (and the tax payments that come with it).

I think the Daniel Theis exception is about $5,000 short.

Another poster already pointed it out, but you get to exceed a TPE by up to 100k. Dunn just fits that way.

[gouki88]

I think Robb’s math is slightly off.  Since the Celtics would be a taxpayer team after such a trade as he describes, they could only take back 125% of Thompson’s salary, not his salary plus $5 million, so $12.25 million.  This puts us in Nance and Kyle Anderson territory, but not most of the other players he named (I can’t see Bagley being someone who Stevens would be interested in given his concerns about consistent effort and maturity).

That said, salary filler like Carsen Edwards would get us the rest of the way there for the guys on his list.

Thad Young or Malik Beasley would be awesome from a talent perspective. Dunno what state Beasley's personal life is in though...

[Celtics2021]

I think Robb’s math is slightly off.  Since the Celtics would be a taxpayer team after such a trade as he describes, they could only take back 125% of Thompson’s salary, not his salary plus $5 million, so $12.25 million.  This puts us in Nance and Kyle Anderson territory, but not most of the other players he named (I can’t see Bagley being someone who Stevens would be interested in given his concerns about consistent effort and maturity).

That said, salary filler like Carsen Edwards would get us the rest of the way there for the guys on his list.

Thad Young or Malik Beasley would be awesome from a talent perspective. Dunno what state Beasley's personal life is in though...

I'd be interested in TJ Warren, myself.  Would probably need to send a different player than Edwards to make that deal work for Indiana, however.

[Vermont Green]

Right now, we sit about $2M over the tax level.  If we do the Thompson for Dunn/Fernando as proposed, we save about $3M for 2021/22 and get under the tax.  That is great but if we then use the TPE we get to bring in a player, it is pure tax and also starts the clock for the 3 years out of 4 double penalties.  I suspect that the Celtics are willing to go tax for the right player.  We still have a huge hole at PF.  Bagley would be great but don't see why SAC would want to trade him.

[Roy H.]

Right now, we sit about $2M over the tax level.  If we do the Thompson for Dunn/Fernando as proposed, we save about $3M for 2021/22 and get under the tax.  That is great but if we then use the TPE we get to bring in a player, it is pure tax and also starts the clock for the 3 years out of 4 double penalties.  I suspect that the Celtics are willing to go tax for the right player.  We still have a huge hole at PF.  Bagley would be great but don't see why SAC would want to trade him.

I think their goal is to dump Dunn to save as much money as possible.  The team has no interest in contending this year.

I’ll be thrilled if I’m proven wrong.  This team still needs a good PF and a good SG.

[Kuberski33]

Right now, we sit about $2M over the tax level.  If we do the Thompson for Dunn/Fernando as proposed, we save about $3M for 2021/22 and get under the tax.  That is great but if we then use the TPE we get to bring in a player, it is pure tax and also starts the clock for the 3 years out of 4 double penalties.  I suspect that the Celtics are willing to go tax for the right player.  We still have a huge hole at PF.  Bagley would be great but don't see why SAC would want to trade him.

I think their goal is to dump Dunn to save as much money as possible.  The team has no interest in contending this year.

I’ll be thrilled if I’m proven wrong.  This team still needs a good PF and a good SG.

The roster they ended the past season with was so messed up that it's likely to take more than a year to fix.

[footey]

Right now, we sit about $2M over the tax level.  If we do the Thompson for Dunn/Fernando as proposed, we save about $3M for 2021/22 and get under the tax.  That is great but if we then use the TPE we get to bring in a player, it is pure tax and also starts the clock for the 3 years out of 4 double penalties.  I suspect that the Celtics are willing to go tax for the right player.  We still have a huge hole at PF.  Bagley would be great but don't see why SAC would want to trade him.

I think their goal is to dump Dunn to save as much money as possible.  The team has no interest in contending this year.

I’ll be thrilled if I’m proven wrong.  This team still needs a good PF and a good SG.

If you get a good PF, don't you by definition have a good SG, since Tatum slides to SF and Brown slides to SG? Or are you thinking of back up?

[Vermont Green]

Right now, we sit about $2M over the tax level.  If we do the Thompson for Dunn/Fernando as proposed, we save about $3M for 2021/22 and get under the tax.  That is great but if we then use the TPE we get to bring in a player, it is pure tax and also starts the clock for the 3 years out of 4 double penalties.  I suspect that the Celtics are willing to go tax for the right player.  We still have a huge hole at PF.  Bagley would be great but don't see why SAC would want to trade him.

I think their goal is to dump Dunn to save as much money as possible.  The team has no interest in contending this year.

I’ll be thrilled if I’m proven wrong.  This team still needs a good PF and a good SG.

That is a strange statement about no interest in contending.  I guess if you mean not willing to pay tax for a chance (perhaps slim chance) to contend then OK.  And I see nothing wrong with our SG depth.  Jaylen Brown, Josh Richardson, Romeo Langford, and Carsen Edwards (in case of emergency).  To me, that is the one position that is locked up.

I guess I agree that this is not the season to "go all in" or anything like that but if we could add a piece that in time would be a legit #3 talent, we should go for it, even it it means tax.  Being willing to strategically get better is always smart even if you aren't in position to go all in for a run at a title.  I am optimistic that this is what the Celtics will try to do.

[Celtics4ever]

More from Robb, sorry if this was posted

NBA free agency has arrived but the complexion of the Celtics roster looks a lot different already compared to last week following two trades being agreed upon over the weekend. For now, Josh Richardson is a Celtic and Kris Dunn and Bruno Fernando are also new additions (for now) in a second deal that’s not yet official which sent Tristan Thompson to Sacramento. What do those moves and other market developments across the NBA do to impact Boston’s options heading into NBA free agency week? Let’s break down an overview of where the team stands.

Under contract for 2021-22

Jayson Tatum: $28.1 million

Al Horford: $27 million

Jaylen Brown: $26.8 million

Marcus Smart: $14.3 million

Josh Richardson: $11.6 million

Kris Dunn: $5 million

Romeo Langford: $3.8 million

Rob Williams: $3.6 million

Aaron Nesmith: $3.6 million

Grant Williams: $2.6 million

Jabari Parker: $2.3 million (non-guaranteed)

Payton Pritchard: $2.1 million

Carsen Edwards: $1.7 million

Bruno Fernando: $1.7 million

Total: $133 million estimated committed to 14 players including dead cap hits

2021-22 NBA Estimates:

Projected Salary cap: $112.4 million

Projected Luxury tax: $136.6 million

Projected Apron: $143 million

2021 Celtics free agents

Evan Fournier (unrestricted with Bird Rights): The Frenchman is now a big question mark to return to Boston after the Celtics traded for Richardson last week, giving Brad Stevens a viable backup plan on the wing if Fournier walks. Fourner is expected to have several suitors on the unrestricted market including New York and San Antonio, who can sign him outright with their cap room. However, the door is still open for Fournier to return to Boston if his potential suitors ultimately target and land bigger fish with their cap room. This will be the first big domino to fall in free agency for Stevens but it’s evident the team is not willing to commit long-term money to him above a certain price point by putting some backup plans in place.

Semi Ojeleye (unrestricted with Bird Rights): There’s been no news yet on his interest from Boston or elsewhere. Ojeleye will be fighting for a roster spot in wherever his new home is and probably will need to settle for a veteran’s minimum deal wherever he does sign.

Luke Kornet (unrestricted with early Bird Rights): Same situation as Ojeleye. He will have to wait for the market to shake out before signing on somewhere for a veteran’s minimum deal. It’s doubtful there will be room for him on Boston’s roster unless more trades are made involving bigs.

Two-way players

The Celtics passed on giving qualifying offers to Tacko Fall and Tremont Waters per a league source over the weekend, making both two-way players unrestricted free agents this offseason. Boston has already agreed to terms with undrafted forward Sam Hauser on a two-way contract last week so there will be only room for one more two-way player on Boston’s roster next year. Waters is not expected to be back while the Celtics are expected to explore other options with their second two-way spot, leaving the potential for Fall return depending on other moves the C’s make in free agency.

Traded player exceptions

$5 million (Daniel Theis trade)

$6.8 million (Kemba Walker trade)

$9.7 million (Tristan Thompson trade?) — This is not official yet.

Free agent options

Currently, the Celtics are likely to only use taxpayer midlevel exception ($5.9 million) or veteran’s minimum contracts in free agency in order to avoid being hard capped ($143 million). However, if the Celtics manage to clear out more salary in a separate trade or two this week or an expanded Kris Dunn trade and let Evan Fournier walk, the door would open for the team to use a full mid-level exception ($9.5 million) on a more higher-profile free agent or multiple players.

The Celtics have been linked to several former Spurs already (Patty Mills, Rudy Gay) as potential mid-level targets while the Boston Globe reported on Sunday that other former Celtics like Avery Bradley, Jeff Green and Kelly Olynyk could be on Boston’s radar as well. However, all of those players are expanded to command more than veteran’s minimum deals so odds are Boston will only be able to land one in free agency.

For that reason, any other big changes to the roster would likely come via trades in the upcoming week. The Celtics might try to consolidate some youth on the back end of the roster and still have a pair of trade exceptions they can use to help facilitate different deals. A bigger trade for Lonzo Ball is unlikely but also remains on the radar. Look for Brad Stevens to be very busy on all of these fronts in the opening days of free agency as Boston’s front office attempts to retool this roster for new head coach Ime Udoka.

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2021/08/what-are-celtics-free-agency-and-trade-options-after-kris-dunn-josh-richardson-deals.html

[Celtics2021]

Right now, we sit about $2M over the tax level.  If we do the Thompson for Dunn/Fernando as proposed, we save about $3M for 2021/22 and get under the tax.  That is great but if we then use the TPE we get to bring in a player, it is pure tax and also starts the clock for the 3 years out of 4 double penalties.  I suspect that the Celtics are willing to go tax for the right player.  We still have a huge hole at PF.  Bagley would be great but don't see why SAC would want to trade him.

I think their goal is to dump Dunn to save as much money as possible.  The team has no interest in contending this year.

I’ll be thrilled if I’m proven wrong.  This team still needs a good PF and a good SG.

I'm a Kris Dunn fan, but it sounds like there are some significant health concerns with his knee the more I've read.  He had an MCL sprain, rested it for about 10 months, then had a cleanup procedure, rested another 5 months, and still wasn't recovered, which presumably was a major reason he couldn't get on the court for more than a handful of games.  So yes, I think the plan is to move Kris Dunn to another team, as part of this deal or something separate.  Hopefully the pick they receive can help be compensation for a new player they might acquire. 

[radiohead]

Right now, we sit about $2M over the tax level.  If we do the Thompson for Dunn/Fernando as proposed, we save about $3M for 2021/22 and get under the tax.  That is great but if we then use the TPE we get to bring in a player, it is pure tax and also starts the clock for the 3 years out of 4 double penalties.  I suspect that the Celtics are willing to go tax for the right player.  We still have a huge hole at PF.  Bagley would be great but don't see why SAC would want to trade him.

Bagley has issues with Sacramento. I think the Kings are actively shopping him.

https://www.si.com/nba/thunder/news/okc-thunder-marvin-bagley-is-perfect-trade-target

https://www.sactownroyalty.com/2021/7/6/22566104/kings-bagley-explains-why-he-liked-tweet-suggesting-sacramento-trades-him

It’s an interesting idea because of the Duke connection with JT. If ever, Boston will have 2 former #2 picks from Duke who’ll try to rejuvenate their careers as Celtics.