Chuck & Shaq Are Right: Jayson & Jaylen Do Not Play Together, They Take Turns

[GreenlyGreeny]

Jaylen is never going to be a number one guy, and clearly Tatum is poised to be the next Durant. Whenever these two play together, they just take turns and do not exactly jive like MJ/Pippen or LeBron/Wade. We gotta make a change. Really think we gotta move Brown for another young all-star on their second contract (KAT), or a prospective all-star still on their rookie contract (maybe a top two pick this year if a team is interested in taking Brown instead of drafting a top guy).

Thoughts on whether Jayson and Jaylen play together, whether we should move one of the two and, if so, who we should move them for. 

[gouki88]

I just don't see anything that backs this up. Or rather, anything that can't be remedied by a good offensive philosophy. I think it's much more a function of our offence that we often have one on one isolation with wings in the corner than it is those two not having chemistry.

[GreenlyGreeny]

I just don't see anything that backs this up. Or rather, anything that can't be remedied by a good offensive philosophy. I think it's much more a function of our offence that we often have one on one isolation with wings in the corner than it is those two not having chemistry.

I saw no chemistry whatsoever between the two in the first and potentially only season where they were the top two players by a wide margin. It just doesn’t feel like it’s working. The offense never moved like this in prior years, and the defense took a dive as guys seemed more focus on offensive stats. It feels like maybe Jaylen wants this to be his team, but it’s clearly Tatum’s and he’s being nice about it. It feels like Durant/Westbrook back in the day, frankly. We’d hum better with Tatum/Hayward as our top two than we did with Tatum/Brown. Really believe Tatum/Beal may be our way out of this mess.

Like Durant/Westbrook, we could see Tatum walk in a few years if we do not keep him happy. And be stuck with JB as our number one, if we’re lucky (but it’s still not enough).

[Ogaju]

I just don't see anything that backs this up. Or rather, anything that can't be remedied by a good offensive philosophy. I think it's much more a function of our offence that we often have one on one isolation with wings in the corner than it is those two not having chemistry.

I saw no chemistry whatsoever between the two in the first and potentially only season where they were the top two players by a wide margin. It just doesn’t feel like it’s working. The offense never moved like this in prior years, and the defense took a dive as guys seemed more focus on offensive stats. It feels like maybe Jaylen wants this to be his team, but it’s clearly Tatum’s and he’s being nice about it. It feels like Durant/Westbrook back in the day, frankly. We’d hum better with Tatum/Hayward as our top two than we did with Tatum/Brown. Really believe Tatum/Beal may be our way out of this mess.

The chemistry between them is non-existent

[gouki88]

I just don't see anything that backs this up. Or rather, anything that can't be remedied by a good offensive philosophy. I think it's much more a function of our offence that we often have one on one isolation with wings in the corner than it is those two not having chemistry.

I saw no chemistry whatsoever between the two in the first and potentially only season where they were the top two players by a wide margin. It just doesn’t feel like it’s working. The offense never moved like this in prior years. It feels like maybe Jaylen wants this to be his team, but it’s clearly Tatum’s and he’s being nice about it. It feels like Durant/Westbrook back in the day, frankly. We’d hum better with Tatum/Hayward as our top two than we did with Tatum/Brown.

I feel like you're, to a certain extent, pontificating. Your opinions aren't really provable and are just kinda that - your opinion.

I'm not sure where you're inventing these personal riffs like Brown thinking he's the alpha. We also barely saw them play together in a full strength team, if ever. Tatum had COVID, Brown had niggling injuries then his major injury, Kemba was injured, Smart was injured, Thompson was injured, Timelord was injured, Fournier was sick, Theis was traded and Langford was injured. It seems wrong to try to come to conclusions about the chemistry of our star players when our team was totally disjointed.

[GreenlyGreeny]

I just don't see anything that backs this up. Or rather, anything that can't be remedied by a good offensive philosophy. I think it's much more a function of our offence that we often have one on one isolation with wings in the corner than it is those two not having chemistry.

I saw no chemistry whatsoever between the two in the first and potentially only season where they were the top two players by a wide margin. It just doesn’t feel like it’s working. The offense never moved like this in prior years. It feels like maybe Jaylen wants this to be his team, but it’s clearly Tatum’s and he’s being nice about it. It feels like Durant/Westbrook back in the day, frankly. We’d hum better with Tatum/Hayward as our top two than we did with Tatum/Brown.

I feel like you're, to a certain extent, pontificating. Your opinions aren't really provable and are just kinda that - your opinion.

I'm not sure where you're inventing these personal riffs like Brown thinking he's the alpha. We also barely saw them play together in a full strength team, if ever. Tatum had COVID, Brown had niggling injuries then his major injury, Kemba was injured, Smart was injured, Thompson was injured, Timelord was injured, Fournier was sick, Theis was traded and Langford was injured. It seems wrong to try to come to conclusions about the chemistry of our star players when our team was totally disjointed.

Well, it’s not just my opinion. Charles Barkley and Shaq both agreed that they don’t have chemistry together. I know chemistry when I see it, and these two don’t have it when it’s just the two of them at the top. They literally just took turns all year. It doesn’t work that way and no coach can make that work, not even the spirit of Red himself.

[gouki88]

I just don't see anything that backs this up. Or rather, anything that can't be remedied by a good offensive philosophy. I think it's much more a function of our offence that we often have one on one isolation with wings in the corner than it is those two not having chemistry.

I saw no chemistry whatsoever between the two in the first and potentially only season where they were the top two players by a wide margin. It just doesn’t feel like it’s working. The offense never moved like this in prior years. It feels like maybe Jaylen wants this to be his team, but it’s clearly Tatum’s and he’s being nice about it. It feels like Durant/Westbrook back in the day, frankly. We’d hum better with Tatum/Hayward as our top two than we did with Tatum/Brown.

I feel like you're, to a certain extent, pontificating. Your opinions aren't really provable and are just kinda that - your opinion.

I'm not sure where you're inventing these personal riffs like Brown thinking he's the alpha. We also barely saw them play together in a full strength team, if ever. Tatum had COVID, Brown had niggling injuries then his major injury, Kemba was injured, Smart was injured, Thompson was injured, Timelord was injured, Fournier was sick, Theis was traded and Langford was injured. It seems wrong to try to come to conclusions about the chemistry of our star players when our team was totally disjointed.

Well, it’s not just my opinion. Charles Barkley and Shaq both agreed that they don’t have chemistry together. I know chemistry when I see it, and these two don’t have it when it’s just the two of them at the top.

If you're citing those two as analysts in favour of your point you probably have a problem

[Somebody]

>and clearly Tatum is poised to the next Durant

Tearing up one of the worst playoff defences ever for a title contender does not mean that you're the next wing with an all-time peak.

[Tr1boy]

I just don't see anything that backs this up. Or rather, anything that can't be remedied by a good offensive philosophy. I think it's much more a function of our offence that we often have one on one isolation with wings in the corner than it is those two not having chemistry.

I saw no chemistry whatsoever between the two in the first and potentially only season where they were the top two players by a wide margin. It just doesn’t feel like it’s working. The offense never moved like this in prior years, and the defense took a dive as guys seemed more focus on offensive stats. It feels like maybe Jaylen wants this to be his team, but it’s clearly Tatum’s and he’s being nice about it. It feels like Durant/Westbrook back in the day, frankly. We’d hum better with Tatum/Hayward as our top two than we did with Tatum/Brown. Really believe Tatum/Beal may be our way out of this mess.

The chemistry between them is non-existent

None

But at least they are chummy

I read somewhere that Brown gave feedback to Ainge to take Tatum in the draft. 

Both Jays are not natural passers. They are learning. But love to score ... they need learn how to make the extra passes vs take over balance.  Thats the next step

Both can learn the bounce pass through traffic. Touch passes.  Would also love to see Tatum incorporate C&S... rarely in ready position to do it.  For both Brown and Tatum... drive, upfake and draw fouls.  Pierce style. Dont be afraid of contact.

[Somebody]

I just don't see anything that backs this up. Or rather, anything that can't be remedied by a good offensive philosophy. I think it's much more a function of our offence that we often have one on one isolation with wings in the corner than it is those two not having chemistry.

I saw no chemistry whatsoever between the two in the first and potentially only season where they were the top two players by a wide margin. It just doesn’t feel like it’s working. The offense never moved like this in prior years, and the defense took a dive as guys seemed more focus on offensive stats. It feels like maybe Jaylen wants this to be his team, but it’s clearly Tatum’s and he’s being nice about it. It feels like Durant/Westbrook back in the day, frankly. We’d hum better with Tatum/Hayward as our top two than we did with Tatum/Brown. Really believe Tatum/Beal may be our way out of this mess.

The chemistry between them is non-existent

None

But at least they are chummy

I read somewhere that Brown gave feedback to Ainge to take Tatum in the draft. 

Both Jays are not natural passers. They are learning. But love to score ... they need learn how to make the extra passes vs take over balance.  Thats the next step

Both can learn the bounce pass through traffic. Touch passes.  Would also love to see Tatum incorporate C&S... rarely in ready position to do it.  For both Brown and Tatum... drive, upfake and draw fouls.  Pierce style. Dont be afraid of contact.

I would like to see more Jordan for Jaylen - I think he can really emulate Jordan's hybrid on/off-ball game.

[blink]

seems like over-reaction to me.  when exactly did Chuck and Shaq say that, and why should we care anyway?

I mean, I don't really see how this 'lack of chemistry' is really hurting their games at all?  In fact having another all star player takes the pressure off the other guy.  I don't want to do an autopsy of the season here, but there were a lot of injuries, covid missed games, practically no off season for a team that went deep in the playoffs last year.   In my opinion, little to none of the teams problems stem from the lack of chemistry between Brown and Tatum. 

this season:
Tatum - 26 / 7 / 4 All star
Brown - 25 / 6 / 3 All star

I think they need to improve as facilitators, and they more help.  Kemba isn't the guy.  DA needs to figure that part out.

[Kiorrik]

I just don't see anything that backs this up. Or rather, anything that can't be remedied by a good offensive philosophy. I think it's much more a function of our offence that we often have one on one isolation with wings in the corner than it is those two not having chemistry.

I saw no chemistry whatsoever between the two in the first and potentially only season where they were the top two players by a wide margin. It just doesn’t feel like it’s working. The offense never moved like this in prior years, and the defense took a dive as guys seemed more focus on offensive stats. It feels like maybe Jaylen wants this to be his team, but it’s clearly Tatum’s and he’s being nice about it. It feels like Durant/Westbrook back in the day, frankly. We’d hum better with Tatum/Hayward as our top two than we did with Tatum/Brown. Really believe Tatum/Beal may be our way out of this mess.

The chemistry between them is non-existent

None

But at least they are chummy

I read somewhere that Brown gave feedback to Ainge to take Tatum in the draft. 

Both Jays are not natural passers. They are learning. But love to score ... they need learn how to make the extra passes vs take over balance.  Thats the next step

Both can learn the bounce pass through traffic. Touch passes.  Would also love to see Tatum incorporate C&S... rarely in ready position to do it.  For both Brown and Tatum... drive, upfake and draw fouls.  Pierce style. Dont be afraid of contact.

I would like to see more Jordan for Jaylen - I think he can really emulate Jordan's hybrid on/off-ball game.

Part of good passing (even for natural passers) is having teammates that cut at the right time.

And part of that is about hiring folks that know instinctively when to cut, coaching current folks to cut and, well, chemistry that can develop over time.

This is a huge part of why I wanna see this very cast return next season. I reckon with a year's worth of playing and practicing together, they'll do just fine!

[Tr1boy]

I just don't see anything that backs this up. Or rather, anything that can't be remedied by a good offensive philosophy. I think it's much more a function of our offence that we often have one on one isolation with wings in the corner than it is those two not having chemistry.

I saw no chemistry whatsoever between the two in the first and potentially only season where they were the top two players by a wide margin. It just doesn’t feel like it’s working. The offense never moved like this in prior years, and the defense took a dive as guys seemed more focus on offensive stats. It feels like maybe Jaylen wants this to be his team, but it’s clearly Tatum’s and he’s being nice about it. It feels like Durant/Westbrook back in the day, frankly. We’d hum better with Tatum/Hayward as our top two than we did with Tatum/Brown. Really believe Tatum/Beal may be our way out of this mess.

The chemistry between them is non-existent

None

But at least they are chummy

I read somewhere that Brown gave feedback to Ainge to take Tatum in the draft. 

Both Jays are not natural passers. They are learning. But love to score ... they need learn how to make the extra passes vs take over balance.  Thats the next step

Both can learn the bounce pass through traffic. Touch passes.  Would also love to see Tatum incorporate C&S... rarely in ready position to do it.  For both Brown and Tatum... drive, upfake and draw fouls.  Pierce style. Dont be afraid of contact.

I would like to see more Jordan for Jaylen - I think he can really emulate Jordan's hybrid on/off-ball game.

Part of good passing (even for natural passers) is having teammates that cut at the right time.

And part of that is about hiring folks that know instinctively when to cut, coaching current folks to cut and, well, chemistry that can develop over time.

This is a huge part of why I wanna see this very cast return next season. I reckon with a year's worth of playing and practicing together, they'll do just fine!

Optimism ... nothing wrong with it

But I mean... you wouldnt make any changes at all... pretty much bring back the same group?

[Somebody]

I just don't see anything that backs this up. Or rather, anything that can't be remedied by a good offensive philosophy. I think it's much more a function of our offence that we often have one on one isolation with wings in the corner than it is those two not having chemistry.

I saw no chemistry whatsoever between the two in the first and potentially only season where they were the top two players by a wide margin. It just doesn’t feel like it’s working. The offense never moved like this in prior years, and the defense took a dive as guys seemed more focus on offensive stats. It feels like maybe Jaylen wants this to be his team, but it’s clearly Tatum’s and he’s being nice about it. It feels like Durant/Westbrook back in the day, frankly. We’d hum better with Tatum/Hayward as our top two than we did with Tatum/Brown. Really believe Tatum/Beal may be our way out of this mess.

The chemistry between them is non-existent

None

But at least they are chummy

I read somewhere that Brown gave feedback to Ainge to take Tatum in the draft. 

Both Jays are not natural passers. They are learning. But love to score ... they need learn how to make the extra passes vs take over balance.  Thats the next step

Both can learn the bounce pass through traffic. Touch passes.  Would also love to see Tatum incorporate C&S... rarely in ready position to do it.  For both Brown and Tatum... drive, upfake and draw fouls.  Pierce style. Dont be afraid of contact.

I would like to see more Jordan for Jaylen - I think he can really emulate Jordan's hybrid on/off-ball game.

Part of good passing (even for natural passers) is having teammates that cut at the right time.

And part of that is about hiring folks that know instinctively when to cut, coaching current folks to cut and, well, chemistry that can develop over time.

This is a huge part of why I wanna see this very cast return next season. I reckon with a year's worth of playing and practicing together, they'll do just fine!

Hopefully the lad who trains us next season will be one who can have our players practice playing like this

[Kiorrik]

I just don't see anything that backs this up. Or rather, anything that can't be remedied by a good offensive philosophy. I think it's much more a function of our offence that we often have one on one isolation with wings in the corner than it is those two not having chemistry.

I saw no chemistry whatsoever between the two in the first and potentially only season where they were the top two players by a wide margin. It just doesn’t feel like it’s working. The offense never moved like this in prior years, and the defense took a dive as guys seemed more focus on offensive stats. It feels like maybe Jaylen wants this to be his team, but it’s clearly Tatum’s and he’s being nice about it. It feels like Durant/Westbrook back in the day, frankly. We’d hum better with Tatum/Hayward as our top two than we did with Tatum/Brown. Really believe Tatum/Beal may be our way out of this mess.

The chemistry between them is non-existent

None

But at least they are chummy

I read somewhere that Brown gave feedback to Ainge to take Tatum in the draft. 

Both Jays are not natural passers. They are learning. But love to score ... they need learn how to make the extra passes vs take over balance.  Thats the next step

Both can learn the bounce pass through traffic. Touch passes.  Would also love to see Tatum incorporate C&S... rarely in ready position to do it.  For both Brown and Tatum... drive, upfake and draw fouls.  Pierce style. Dont be afraid of contact.

I would like to see more Jordan for Jaylen - I think he can really emulate Jordan's hybrid on/off-ball game.

Part of good passing (even for natural passers) is having teammates that cut at the right time.

And part of that is about hiring folks that know instinctively when to cut, coaching current folks to cut and, well, chemistry that can develop over time.

This is a huge part of why I wanna see this very cast return next season. I reckon with a year's worth of playing and practicing together, they'll do just fine!

Optimism ... nothing wrong with it

But I mean... you wouldnt make any changes at all... pretty much bring back the same group?

I'm not going to pretend I know our cap/trade situations

However, I'd never trade Brown/Tatum. And I'd try not to trade Kemba, Smart, Fournier, Pritchard. And I'd love to keep TT/Nesmith but would trade them way more easily. Rob I'd love to trade because I think he's super valuable, but can't stay healthy. So in a way, I value him more than TT/Nesmith, but I'd also want something more durable. Everyone else, trade away!