Perk said time to move on from Smart

[jpotter33]

Can we move on from Perk as an analyst?


Anyway, I've said in the past that I think trading Smart will be an unfortunate necessity. He makes more sense on a contender that just needs him to be a defensive playmaker.  The Celts don't have that kind of infrastructure in place, and they're gonna need to cut salary. Smart is an obvious casualty of that, I think.

I am surprised more people haven’t said the bolded. I agree in general with Perk but I also think it was pretty crappy of Perk (a media person) to come out with that type of statement about one of the Celtics that has frankly given his all pretty much the whole time he was here.  What would have Perk said to a former player, say cornbread if he had said something like that about him?  It is just crappy.

We all know Marcus shoots too much and has his faults, but Brad Stevens is the one giving him the green light to shoot all the time, maybe Perk should be asking that Brad be moved as well?  I think the answer is no, but if all Perk can do is throw veteran celtics under the bus, he should find a different career.

TP. Pretty much where I'm at. Perkins is more of an entertainment guy than a reasonable analyst. Don't put much stock in what he says.

And completely agree with you about Brad's role in this, as well. Yes, he does have responsibility himself to have better shot selection and not make dumb plays, but he's also been allowed by Stevens to do this for his entire career with no sense of instilled accountability or offensive discipline. Can't hate the monster you helped create.

I think people are overreacting to a down year for Smart in what's been a disaster of a year for the team. Smart is someone who can really elevate a good team, while also really harming a mediocre to bad team. The problem this year was Smart was always asked to do too much - largely because of the injuries but also because of our weak supporting cast -  which is where he ends up harming the team. When he's put in the right situation like much of his career where he can focus on his defense and being a SECONDARY or THIRD playmaker, that's where he excels and is a star in his role, which is a an First Team All-Defense, DPOY candidate who's one of the better bench players in the league.

Smart's market would be very robust, as any contender would want him on their team, especially on that contract. I think the only reasonable argument to make about moving him is the salary issue. Ultimately, though, I'd prefer to keep him and Fournier and move Kemba for picks and VET bench help. A Smart, Fournier, Brown, Tatum, and Timelord lineup is pretty dang good.

[Indocelts]

Well, those idiotic Smart antics has to stop. If Brad can't discipline him, then either A. Brad has to be fired or B.Smart needs to be traded.
 
I choose B.

[RJ87]

I have brought this up in a few threads. Does Smart + #16 pick get the Celtics into the range to draft Scottie Barnes? Dangerous trade giving up one of the Cs 5 best players and a near lotto pick for a 19year old with a questionable shot but he could be perfect next to Tatum and Brown.

Even if a move like this were possible, getting younger is not going to fix what's wrong with this team.

Except age is not the problem with the team, talent is.  Boston needs talent if it truly wants to compete for a title.

Inexperience and age are definitely a problem with this team. It's not the only problem, but it is a huge problem.

Scottie Barnes isn't exactly a Cade Cunningham, Evan Mobley, LaMelo Ball, Luka Doncic, Jah Morant, Zion Williamson, Trae Young type prospect. It's not like he isn't a project that's going to take years to develop into a star, if he ever does. There's a more than good chance he turns into just another guy.

So not sure adding Barnes changes anything except losing great trade assets that could be used to upgrade the inexperience and lack of production this team has after it's top 6-7 players.

Exactly my thoughts. If we pick up a young guy, it has to be someone who can help and impact the rotation right away. We just can't afford to spend the next few seasons on a Rob Williams/Romeo Langford type of project.

It makes far more sense bring in some vets - ones that fit with the Jays and aren't retreads ala Teague - instead of another draft pick that's 2 or 3 years away from being anything.

[LilRip]

The only reason I’d buy that it’s time to move on from Smart is because his contract is pretty great and we needed to include him to get someone of greater value. Our paths for improvement are within (players getting better) or trades. When it comes to trades, you gotta give up value to get value. We’re not trading JB/JT, those are our franchise guys. But Smart has value.

Smart - for all the times we’ve hated on him - definitely helps the team. He’d help any team! This guy is legit 1st team all defense and he’s currently the best playmaker on this team.

[GreenlyGreeny]

See if the Warriors will give up Dray straight-up for Smart. The remainder of the Hayward TPE would let that fit, right? We need a tough, vocal, championship veteran to lead this crew. Dray is the ticket.

[tenn_smoothie]

Always loved Marcus and considered him to be the intangible type role player that most title teams need.
But he plays as if he is an integral part of the offense nowadays, which he is not.
Overall dumb player who forces bad shots, bad penetrations and bad passes, some of which is Stevens' fault.

Also, with each season Smart has become more obnoxious to his teammates, constantly yelling at them on the floor.

Celts need a playmaking point guard, a major upgrade inside and shooters, shooters, shooters.

Also need some attitude and mental toughness and a stronger head coach.

Add those assets and you got a title contender.

[Moranis]

I have brought this up in a few threads. Does Smart + #16 pick get the Celtics into the range to draft Scottie Barnes? Dangerous trade giving up one of the Cs 5 best players and a near lotto pick for a 19year old with a questionable shot but he could be perfect next to Tatum and Brown.

Even if a move like this were possible, getting younger is not going to fix what's wrong with this team.

Except age is not the problem with the team, talent is.  Boston needs talent if it truly wants to compete for a title.

Inexperience and age are definitely a problem with this team. It's not the only problem, but it is a huge problem.

Scottie Barnes isn't exactly a Cade Cunningham, Evan Mobley, LaMelo Ball, Luka Doncic, Jah Morant, Zion Williamson, Trae Young type prospect. It's not like he isn't a project that's going to take years to develop into a star, if he ever does. There's a more than good chance he turns into just another guy.

So not sure adding Barnes changes anything except losing great trade assets that could be used to upgrade the inexperience and lack of production this team has after it's top 6-7 players.

Talent is the problem.  Boston just needs more talent.  As we've seen time and time again, when the talent is good enough young teams will make the finals or advance far into the playoffs and if the talent isn't good enough old veteran teams won't even make the playoffs.

[PAOBoston]

I have brought this up in a few threads. Does Smart + #16 pick get the Celtics into the range to draft Scottie Barnes? Dangerous trade giving up one of the Cs 5 best players and a near lotto pick for a 19year old with a questionable shot but he could be perfect next to Tatum and Brown.

Even if a move like this were possible, getting younger is not going to fix what's wrong with this team.

Except age is not the problem with the team, talent is.  Boston needs talent if it truly wants to compete for a title.

Inexperience and age are definitely a problem with this team. It's not the only problem, but it is a huge problem.

Scottie Barnes isn't exactly a Cade Cunningham, Evan Mobley, LaMelo Ball, Luka Doncic, Jah Morant, Zion Williamson, Trae Young type prospect. It's not like he isn't a project that's going to take years to develop into a star, if he ever does. There's a more than good chance he turns into just another guy.

So not sure adding Barnes changes anything except losing great trade assets that could be used to upgrade the inexperience and lack of production this team has after it's top 6-7 players.

Talent is the problem.  Boston just needs more talent.  As we've seen time and time again, when the talent is good enough young teams will make the finals or advance far into the playoffs and if the talent isn't good enough old veteran teams won't even make the playoffs.

One caveat to your statement: talent that fits*

[Who]

This team reminds me some of the K-Love Minnesota Timberwolves. Not a direct comparison in terms of personnel but in terms of being top heavy. They had a pretty decent starting 5 but had zero depth.

PG - Rubio
SG - Kevin Martin
SF - Corey Brewer
PF - K Love
 C - Pekovic

That played pretty good basketball whenever the team had it's starters on the floor but fell apart whenever the bench came in because it was littered with below average bench talent to non NBA level players.

They missed out on the playoffs precisely because of that.


I see this year's Celtics in a similar vein. I see the core of this team as a 50 win group but the lousy bench dragging them down in to the mid 40s.

The good news it that this is easily fixable. I want to repeat that - easily fixable. This team can get back to being a 50+ win team next season.

The bad news is that without Gordon Hayward, this team is not a title contender ... and without finding a way to replace him, this team will not be a title contender in the near future. And that is not easily fixable. So I see this team stuck in that 50 win 4th/5th seed 2nd round and out stage of development. And it is going to take a big change to fix that.

[Moranis]

I have brought this up in a few threads. Does Smart + #16 pick get the Celtics into the range to draft Scottie Barnes? Dangerous trade giving up one of the Cs 5 best players and a near lotto pick for a 19year old with a questionable shot but he could be perfect next to Tatum and Brown.

Even if a move like this were possible, getting younger is not going to fix what's wrong with this team.

Except age is not the problem with the team, talent is.  Boston needs talent if it truly wants to compete for a title.

Inexperience and age are definitely a problem with this team. It's not the only problem, but it is a huge problem.

Scottie Barnes isn't exactly a Cade Cunningham, Evan Mobley, LaMelo Ball, Luka Doncic, Jah Morant, Zion Williamson, Trae Young type prospect. It's not like he isn't a project that's going to take years to develop into a star, if he ever does. There's a more than good chance he turns into just another guy.

So not sure adding Barnes changes anything except losing great trade assets that could be used to upgrade the inexperience and lack of production this team has after it's top 6-7 players.

Talent is the problem.  Boston just needs more talent.  As we've seen time and time again, when the talent is good enough young teams will make the finals or advance far into the playoffs and if the talent isn't good enough old veteran teams won't even make the playoffs.

One caveat to your statement: talent that fits*

I disagree.  Sure there are exceptions, but the players that are consistently top 5 players in the world, are on teams that advance very far in the playoffs almost without exception.  In fact, most of the time those guys end up losing to another team that has a top 5 player on it.

I think there is a pretty clear top 4 players this year in Giannis, Lebron, Durant, and Kawhi.  There are a handful of guys that could potentially make an argument that they are 5th - Harden, Jokic, Embiid, Davis, and Curry.  It isn't a coincidence that 8 of those 9 players are on the handful of truly legit contenders with Curry being the only exception.  And while Utah and Phoenix are nice stories, I don't think they beat either LA (if healthy) or the top 3 teams from the East.  Denver would have been a heavy favorite against either team with Murray, but without him those are closer series (though I'd still expect Denver to win). 

And this is absolutely historically the exact same thing.  The teams that win, especially over multiple seasons, are the ones that have a top 5 player with very little exception.  There are of course exceptions, but expecting your team to be an exception to that rule is just going to end in disappointment time and time again.  At the end of the day you need true top end talent to truly compete, and this team lacks true top end talent.

[PhoSita]

I have brought this up in a few threads. Does Smart + #16 pick get the Celtics into the range to draft Scottie Barnes? Dangerous trade giving up one of the Cs 5 best players and a near lotto pick for a 19year old with a questionable shot but he could be perfect next to Tatum and Brown.

Even if a move like this were possible, getting younger is not going to fix what's wrong with this team.

Except age is not the problem with the team, talent is.  Boston needs talent if it truly wants to compete for a title.

Inexperience and age are definitely a problem with this team. It's not the only problem, but it is a huge problem.

Scottie Barnes isn't exactly a Cade Cunningham, Evan Mobley, LaMelo Ball, Luka Doncic, Jah Morant, Zion Williamson, Trae Young type prospect. It's not like he isn't a project that's going to take years to develop into a star, if he ever does. There's a more than good chance he turns into just another guy.

So not sure adding Barnes changes anything except losing great trade assets that could be used to upgrade the inexperience and lack of production this team has after it's top 6-7 players.

Talent is the problem.  Boston just needs more talent.  As we've seen time and time again, when the talent is good enough young teams will make the finals or advance far into the playoffs and if the talent isn't good enough old veteran teams won't even make the playoffs.

Guys this is a false dichotomy.


The team needs more talent and experience.

[Moranis]

I have brought this up in a few threads. Does Smart + #16 pick get the Celtics into the range to draft Scottie Barnes? Dangerous trade giving up one of the Cs 5 best players and a near lotto pick for a 19year old with a questionable shot but he could be perfect next to Tatum and Brown.

Even if a move like this were possible, getting younger is not going to fix what's wrong with this team.

Except age is not the problem with the team, talent is.  Boston needs talent if it truly wants to compete for a title.

Inexperience and age are definitely a problem with this team. It's not the only problem, but it is a huge problem.

Scottie Barnes isn't exactly a Cade Cunningham, Evan Mobley, LaMelo Ball, Luka Doncic, Jah Morant, Zion Williamson, Trae Young type prospect. It's not like he isn't a project that's going to take years to develop into a star, if he ever does. There's a more than good chance he turns into just another guy.

So not sure adding Barnes changes anything except losing great trade assets that could be used to upgrade the inexperience and lack of production this team has after it's top 6-7 players.

Talent is the problem.  Boston just needs more talent.  As we've seen time and time again, when the talent is good enough young teams will make the finals or advance far into the playoffs and if the talent isn't good enough old veteran teams won't even make the playoffs.

Guys this is a false dichotomy.


The team needs more talent and experience.

There is nothing false about that.  Talent is what wins and it always has.  The Warriors first title run their 3 best players were 26, 24, and 24.  They had another starter that was 22.  They of course had some veterans, none of which had title experience, but every team has veterans.  The Thunder basically made the Finals with the entire roster on rookie contracts (just about anyway).  Lebron made his first finals appearance at 22. 

Either the players are good enough or they aren't.  And that is really the bottom line. 

[W8ting2McHale]

I have brought this up in a few threads. Does Smart + #16 pick get the Celtics into the range to draft Scottie Barnes? Dangerous trade giving up one of the Cs 5 best players and a near lotto pick for a 19year old with a questionable shot but he could be perfect next to Tatum and Brown.

Even if a move like this were possible, getting younger is not going to fix what's wrong with this team.

Except age is not the problem with the team, talent is.  Boston needs talent if it truly wants to compete for a title.

Inexperience and age are definitely a problem with this team. It's not the only problem, but it is a huge problem.

Scottie Barnes isn't exactly a Cade Cunningham, Evan Mobley, LaMelo Ball, Luka Doncic, Jah Morant, Zion Williamson, Trae Young type prospect. It's not like he isn't a project that's going to take years to develop into a star, if he ever does. There's a more than good chance he turns into just another guy.

So not sure adding Barnes changes anything except losing great trade assets that could be used to upgrade the inexperience and lack of production this team has after it's top 6-7 players.

Talent is the problem.  Boston just needs more talent.  As we've seen time and time again, when the talent is good enough young teams will make the finals or advance far into the playoffs and if the talent isn't good enough old veteran teams won't even make the playoffs.

Guys this is a false dichotomy.


The team needs more talent and experience.

We’ve got young Kobe, now we just need Shaq.

[PhoSita]

There is nothing false about that.  Talent is what wins and it always has.  The Warriors first title run their 3 best players were 26, 24, and 24.  They had another starter that was 22.  They of course had some veterans, none of which had title experience, but every team has veterans.  The Thunder basically made the Finals with the entire roster on rookie contracts (just about anyway).  Lebron made his first finals appearance at 22. 

You skip over the fact that the Thunder made the Finals when they were young ... and got smoked.

LeBron made the Finals at age 22 ... and got swept.

Talent is a necessary ingredient for winning, but it's also very hard to win playoff series when your team is very inexperienced!  The teams that win the title are almost invariably stocked with veteran players, whether it's the main guys or the players around them.

The Warriors, as you concede, may have had a young core, but they also had key veteran role players.  Iguodala, Livingston, Bogut, David Lee, Barbosa, Mo Speights ... these guys had been in the league for a long time and collectively seen a lot of playoff games.

Then of course you have their coach who won titles with multiple teams as a player.

That's what we're saying here ... the Celtics need more talent on the roster, yes.  But also, particularly because their leading scorers are so young, they need an experienced, veteran, disciplined supporting cast.

[nickagneta]

There is nothing false about that.  Talent is what wins and it always has.  The Warriors first title run their 3 best players were 26, 24, and 24.  They had another starter that was 22.  They of course had some veterans, none of which had title experience, but every team has veterans.  The Thunder basically made the Finals with the entire roster on rookie contracts (just about anyway).  Lebron made his first finals appearance at 22. 

You skip over the fact that the Thunder made the Finals when they were young ... and got smoked.

LeBron made the Finals at age 22 ... and got swept.

Talent is a necessary ingredient for winning, but it's also very hard to win playoff series when your team is very inexperienced!  The teams that win the title are almost invariably stocked with veteran players, whether it's the main guys or the players around them.

The Warriors, as you concede, may have had a young core, but they also had key veteran role players.  Iguodala, Livingston, Bogut, David Lee, Barbosa, Mo Speights ... these guys had been in the league for a long time and collectively seen a lot of playoff games.

Then of course you have their coach who won titles with multiple teams as a player.

That's what we're saying here ... the Celtics need more talent on the roster, yes.  But also, particularly because their leading scorers are so young, they need an experienced, veteran, disciplined supporting cast.

But the Celtics don't have a top 5 player and never will because Brown and Tatum never will be....blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

You know who no one thought was going to be a top 5 player in the league until he launched himself into that stratosphere in his 6th year?.....Steph Curry. You know who after 4 years had a better resume than Steph did after 4 years in the league, Tatum and Brown.

Funny that