Author Topic: Celtics (29-26) at Lakers (34-21) Game #56 4/15/21  (Read 45020 times)

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Re: Celtics (29-26) at Lakers (34-21) Game #56 4/15/21
« Reply #435 on: April 16, 2021, 01:41:33 AM »

Offline colincb

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Stop apologizing for Stevens....it was a Bonehead move to take out the starters with over 9 freaking minutes to go on the road...gave the Lakers the momentum and confidence...you gotta leave the starters in til around 5-6 minutes...especially since the Refs aint gonna call anything--like the foul they didn't call on the Pritchard 3 pointer attempt.
Nah. This is just your anti-Brad bias coming out. Up 27, you pull those starters. That's the right move and a move every coach in the league would have made.

You pull the starters but not your 2nd stringers with 9 minutes to go. Pulling Pritchard who was clicking was a mistake.
Wrong. You empty the bench. As I said, not one other coach in the league would have done anything differently.

That bench could only score 2 points in 5+ minutes. That's all on those players, not Brad.

With 9 mins left though?

That is plenty of time to erase a 20 point lead
Okay let's try a different argument:

I'm pretty sure nobody (and I do mean literally nobody) expected it to go THAT poorly.

I agree with you

It has happened before this season.

Re: Celtics (29-26) at Lakers (34-21) Game #56 4/15/21
« Reply #436 on: April 16, 2021, 01:48:13 AM »

Offline liam

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Stop apologizing for Stevens....it was a Bonehead move to take out the starters with over 9 freaking minutes to go on the road...gave the Lakers the momentum and confidence...you gotta leave the starters in til around 5-6 minutes...especially since the Refs aint gonna call anything--like the foul they didn't call on the Pritchard 3 pointer attempt.
Nah. This is just your anti-Brad bias coming out. Up 27, you pull those starters. That's the right move and a move every coach in the league would have made.

You pull the starters but not your 2nd stringers with 9 minutes to go. Pulling Pritchard who was clicking was a mistake.
Wrong. You empty the bench. As I said, not one other coach in the league would have done anything differently.

That bench could only score 2 points in 5+ minutes. That's all on those players, not Brad.

With 9 mins left though?

That is plenty of time to erase a 20ish point lead

It wasn’t 9 minutes.  It was 7 minutes when Wagner came in, and 5:30 when Waters and Semi replaced Pritchard and Grant.  They were up by 24 when that happened.  I don’t know where this 9 minutes came from.

Yes it was

Thats when the starters were subbed out, completely

Brad could have left Smart in there a little longer for example

end of the day ....the team won.  And hopefully Brad won't try that again. 

Sub in the 3rd stringers including Tacko. But when you know you know the game is out of reach

Dude, you were complaining about Pritchard.  He played until the 5:30 mark.  Stop making up ccrao me cause you think you’re smarter than the coach.

This was an enjoyable win until the Stevens bashing started.  Now I know why I stay out of game threads.  People here can be insufferable, just making up things to complain about.

Pritchard should've stayed in until the end. My main point is you don't let a blow out get down to two possessions before you right the ship. It was enjoyable until it almost slipped away.

Pritchard wasn’t going to play the entire 4th.  And Brad agreed it shouldn’t get to two possessions, that why he subbed everyone back in when it was a 7 point game with 1:50 to go, so I’m not quite sure what you’re arguing.

That was a car crash line up that Brad put out there and maybe you stop if before everyone you put out there is a minus 17 or worse. I thought that it was the Lakers that were out of time outs not Boston. Maybe if you don't just roll out the end of the bench all at once you don't have to put the starters back in. That's my point.

Re: Celtics (29-26) at Lakers (34-21) Game #56 4/15/21
« Reply #437 on: April 16, 2021, 01:48:45 AM »

Offline liam

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Stop apologizing for Stevens....it was a Bonehead move to take out the starters with over 9 freaking minutes to go on the road...gave the Lakers the momentum and confidence...you gotta leave the starters in til around 5-6 minutes...especially since the Refs aint gonna call anything--like the foul they didn't call on the Pritchard 3 pointer attempt.
Nah. This is just your anti-Brad bias coming out. Up 27, you pull those starters. That's the right move and a move every coach in the league would have made.

You pull the starters but not your 2nd stringers with 9 minutes to go. Pulling Pritchard who was clicking was a mistake.
Wrong. You empty the bench. As I said, not one other coach in the league would have done anything differently.

That bench could only score 2 points in 5+ minutes. That's all on those players, not Brad.

With 9 mins left though?

That is plenty of time to erase a 20 point lead
Okay let's try a different argument:

I'm pretty sure nobody (and I do mean literally nobody) expected it to go THAT poorly.

I agree with you

It has happened before this season.

that's why we can't have nice things! ;D

Re: Celtics (29-26) at Lakers (34-21) Game #56 4/15/21
« Reply #438 on: April 16, 2021, 01:50:36 AM »

Offline Sophomore

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Is Brad drunk?

Why would you play that unit with 6 mins left

This was the same thing that happened vs Raptors

They were up 27 and needed to make about 4 buckets in order for it not to become an issue. They couldn't do that. Not Brad's fault.

I disagree

Brad can never do that again

Maybe with 3 mins left in the game

I agree with this ....the starters worked too hard to put those losers in with 9 minutes to go ...bad on CBS
I don't see the big issue as much.

Whether they play an extra 3 mins or have to play with 3 mins to go - at least with 3 mins to go they've had some nice rest?

The issue is you lose a 27 point lead and the game. If Brad didnt sub in some of the starters. Lakers would have won

Its embarrassing and all the hardwork by Brown and starters/PP goes to waste

If he didn’t sub them in Lakers would have won.

But he did sub them in and Boston won.

We went 3-0 on this trip. 9 out of the last 12. The starters look completely different, and we played this game w/out Time Lord or Fournier. I’m fairly sure the bench unit would’ve been able to rebound and score a few buckets if those guys were available.

It’s no fun losing the lead, but big picture we are miles from where we were mid-March.

Re: Celtics (29-26) at Lakers (34-21) Game #56 4/15/21
« Reply #439 on: April 16, 2021, 01:55:22 AM »

Offline libermaniac

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Stop apologizing for Stevens....it was a Bonehead move to take out the starters with over 9 freaking minutes to go on the road...gave the Lakers the momentum and confidence...you gotta leave the starters in til around 5-6 minutes...especially since the Refs aint gonna call anything--like the foul they didn't call on the Pritchard 3 pointer attempt.
Nah. This is just your anti-Brad bias coming out. Up 27, you pull those starters. That's the right move and a move every coach in the league would have made.

You pull the starters but not your 2nd stringers with 9 minutes to go. Pulling Pritchard who was clicking was a mistake.
Wrong. You empty the bench. As I said, not one other coach in the league would have done anything differently.

That bench could only score 2 points in 5+ minutes. That's all on those players, not Brad.

With 9 mins left though?

That is plenty of time to erase a 20ish point lead

It wasn’t 9 minutes.  It was 7 minutes when Wagner came in, and 5:30 when Waters and Semi replaced Pritchard and Grant.  They were up by 24 when that happened.  I don’t know where this 9 minutes came from.

Yes it was

Thats when the starters were subbed out, completely

Brad could have left Smart in there a little longer for example

end of the day ....the team won.  And hopefully Brad won't try that again. 

Sub in the 3rd stringers including Tacko. But when you know you know the game is out of reach

Dude, you were complaining about Pritchard.  He played until the 5:30 mark.  Stop making up ccrao me cause you think you’re smarter than the coach.

This was an enjoyable win until the Stevens bashing started.  Now I know why I stay out of game threads.  People here can be insufferable, just making up things to complain about.

Pritchard should've stayed in until the end. My main point is you don't let a blow out get down to two possessions before you right the ship. It was enjoyable until it almost slipped away.

Pritchard wasn’t going to play the entire 4th.  And Brad agreed it shouldn’t get to two possessions, that why he subbed everyone back in when it was a 7 point game with 1:50 to go, so I’m not quite sure what you’re arguing.

That was a car crash line up that Brad put out there and maybe you stop if before everyone you put out there is a minus 17 or worse. I thought that it was the Lakers that were out of time outs not Boston. Maybe if you don't just roll out the end of the bench all at once you don't have to put the starters back in. That's my point.

And, have them run some clock for God’s sake. They were playing it like an exhibition game. I definitely saw it coming. A friend of mine said I was crazy when I complained about them not running some clock when Wagner got the hooking penalty with like 17 seconds left on the shot clock.

Re: Celtics (29-26) at Lakers (34-21) Game #56 4/15/21
« Reply #440 on: April 16, 2021, 02:00:46 AM »

Offline liam

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Is Brad drunk?

Why would you play that unit with 6 mins left

This was the same thing that happened vs Raptors

They were up 27 and needed to make about 4 buckets in order for it not to become an issue. They couldn't do that. Not Brad's fault.

I disagree

Brad can never do that again

Maybe with 3 mins left in the game

I agree with this ....the starters worked too hard to put those losers in with 9 minutes to go ...bad on CBS
I don't see the big issue as much.

Whether they play an extra 3 mins or have to play with 3 mins to go - at least with 3 mins to go they've had some nice rest?

The issue is you lose a 27 point lead and the game. If Brad didnt sub in some of the starters. Lakers would have won

Its embarrassing and all the hardwork by Brown and starters/PP goes to waste

If he didn’t sub them in Lakers would have won.

But he did sub them in and Boston won.

We went 3-0 on this trip. 9 out of the last 12. The starters look completely different, and we played this game w/out Time Lord or Fournier. I’m fairly sure the bench unit would’ve been able to rebound and score a few buckets if those guys were available.

It’s no fun losing the lead, but big picture we are miles from where we were mid-March.

It is a win and a big win. It was a frustrating ending that didn't seem managed well. The team is playing at a much higher level now gearing up for the playoffs. Now in the 5th spot with a good chance to pass Atlanta and maybe give the Bucks a run for their money.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2021, 02:10:05 AM by liam »

Re: Celtics (29-26) at Lakers (34-21) Game #56 4/15/21
« Reply #441 on: April 16, 2021, 02:14:18 AM »

Offline colincb

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A Waters-Edwards backcourt should only be seen in an audition for the Chinese NBL.

Too many turnovers for playoff basketball. Otherwise, we're going to be a tough out if our top 7 are healthy and we clean that up.I'm not afraid of anyone but BKN.

Re: Celtics (29-26) at Lakers (34-21) Game #56 4/15/21
« Reply #442 on: April 16, 2021, 02:22:43 AM »

Offline Celtics Mike

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The collapse of a 27 point lead in the 4th Q certainly helps Brad identify who cannot be trusted to be part of the play off roster.

But I am delighted Celtics have won 5 straight, they are the form team in the NBA

Re: Celtics (29-26) at Lakers (34-21) Game #56 4/15/21
« Reply #443 on: April 16, 2021, 03:31:04 AM »

Offline Ogaju

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Stop apologizing for Stevens....it was a Bonehead move to take out the starters with over 9 freaking minutes to go on the road...gave the Lakers the momentum and confidence...you gotta leave the starters in til around 5-6 minutes...especially since the Refs aint gonna call anything--like the foul they didn't call on the Pritchard 3 pointer attempt.
Nah. This is just your anti-Brad bias coming out. Up 27, you pull those starters. That's the right move and a move every coach in the league would have made.

You pull the starters but not your 2nd stringers with 9 minutes to go. Pulling Pritchard who was clicking was a mistake.
Wrong. You empty the bench. As I said, not one other coach in the league would have done anything differently.

That bench could only score 2 points in 5+ minutes. That's all on those players, not Brad.

With 9 mins left though?

That is plenty of time to erase a 20ish point lead

Yes it is but not if your players played like they even belong on an NBA court.

Re: Celtics (29-26) at Lakers (34-21) Game #56 4/15/21
« Reply #444 on: April 16, 2021, 03:50:24 AM »

Offline Somebody

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My issue with Brad is that he didn't pull the third stringers out of the game fast enough - he allowed the Lakers to cut the lead to single digits before subbing our starters back into the game.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: Celtics (29-26) at Lakers (34-21) Game #56 4/15/21
« Reply #445 on: April 16, 2021, 04:35:28 AM »

Offline ozgod

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My issue with Brad is that he didn't pull the third stringers out of the game fast enough - he allowed the Lakers to cut the lead to single digits before subbing our starters back into the game.

Brad is a player's coach first and foremost. Doubtless he subbed in those young men to give them an opportunity to earn some playing time, or to try and showcase themselves to stay in the NBA next year. Also he probably wanted to reward his starters and rotation players by sitting them early at the end of a 3 game road trip, and reward those end of bench guys who probably work hard in practice but never see the court. What he didn't expect was for them to implode with consecutive turnovers, fouls and poor decision making.

Here's the timeline for the subs. At the time the Fakers had this team on the floor: Cacok (2.4ppg), McKinnie (3ppg), Antetokounmpo (0.8ppg), Horton-Tucker (8.7ppg), McLemore (10.6ppg)

  • 7:01 - Wagner checks in for Kornet, score is Celtics lead 113-86 (27 point lead)
  • 6:16 - Nesmith checks in for GWill, score is 113-89 (24 point lead)
  • 5:33 - Waters checks in for Pritchard, Ojeleye checks in for Langford, score is 113-89 (24 point lead)

Between 5:33 and 1:50 (3:37) Wagner, Nesmith, Waters, Ojeleye, and Edwards gave up 17 points, turned the ball over 5 times (3 to Wagner with offensive foul, traveling and bad pass), 1 to Edwards (traveling), 1 to Waters (bad pass), committed 4 fouls, and shot 1-5. And this was with Brad calling (others would call it wasting) a timeout with 3:29 to go with the score 115-102.

Finally Brad had enough after the Fakers scored 6 more points in the 1:41 after his timeout and he put his Big 3 back in along with GWill and Kornet. Clearly to try and make a point.
  • 1:50 - Kornet checks in for Edwards, GWill checks in for Wagner, Jaylen checks in for Nesmith, Smart checks in for Waters, Tatum checks in for Ojeleye, score is 115-108 (7 point lead)

So looking at the sequence of events above, I'm not sure on what planet Brad takes the blame over and above the players who were on the court from the 7:01 mark to the 1:50 mark. The lead was nearly 30 points against the Fakers 3rd string. Cacok, McKinnie, the baby Antetokoumnpo, these guys play like 5 mins a game. And Horton Tucker and McLemore are hardly LeBum and AD. They're not even Kuzma and KCP. Vogel had raised the white flag long ago. So we're going to blame Brad for not leaving starters or rotation players in against these guys? He's trying to preserve players for the playoffs. Imagine the outrage if someone gets injured, whether it's a starter or a key player like Pritchard or Langford. The outrage would be far, far greater than the stick Brad is taking right now for putting in guys who he wants to try to give some playing time that would ordinarily never see the court, some opportunity in case we DO get injuries and these guys have to play more minutes than they are right now.

I know Brad gets a lot of hate and criticism here, more so because the team has performed poorly this season. But honestly, we have many other, more valid things to blame him on than this. He didn't do anything that 99% of other coaches wouldn't do: sub in reserves during a blowout to give them some PT and an opportunity to earn more PT; call a timeout to compose those guys, who were probably panicking because they haven't been in a garbage time situation where the other team (of 3rd stringers too) make a run; give them an opportunity to dig themselves out of the hole they created and hopefully avoid having to send his starters back out there and increase the risk of them getting injured; and finally making the decision to send them back out there to preserve the victory.

Hindsight is 20/20 and it probably felt different to us who were watching the Fakers catch up in real time but if you look at the sequence of events above, in my humble opinion there has to be some personal responsibility, and it rests with the 5 guys who were on the court and who ended up with +/- of -17 and -20 when everyone else was a +11 to +20 and Jaylen being a +36. And to me it's not even so much that they don't have the ability, sure they're end of bench guys but they're playing other end of bench guys. They came in thinking it was going to be Gino time cakewalk and they got a rude surprise, and Brad gave them every opportunity to get themselves out of it before he had to step in to preserve the win.

In any case, way too much time has been taken hashing this unsavory end to the game (including by me  :police: ) it's a shame it's taken away from what has been a great road trip and a solid run by the team. We have our two stars firing on all cylinders and the rest of the team, end of benchers aside, seems to be heading in the right direction. And this has all happened without Fournier, so there's only more upside to go.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D


Re: Celtics (29-26) at Lakers (34-21) Game #56 4/15/21
« Reply #446 on: April 16, 2021, 04:57:00 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

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Stop apologizing for Stevens....it was a Bonehead move to take out the starters with over 9 freaking minutes to go on the road...gave the Lakers the momentum and confidence...you gotta leave the starters in til around 5-6 minutes...especially since the Refs aint gonna call anything--like the foul they didn't call on the Pritchard 3 pointer attempt.
Nah. This is just your anti-Brad bias coming out. Up 27, you pull those starters. That's the right move and a move every coach in the league would have made.

You pull the starters but not your 2nd stringers with 9 minutes to go. Pulling Pritchard who was clicking was a mistake.
Wrong. You empty the bench. As I said, not one other coach in the league would have done anything differently.

That bench could only score 2 points in 5+ minutes. That's all on those players, not Brad.

With 9 mins left though?

That is plenty of time to erase a 20ish point lead

Against starters maybe. Not against scrubs.

If someone got injured im 100% sure all of you people will be blaming Brad for playing his starters with a 20 pt lead.

Re: Celtics (29-26) at Lakers (34-21) Game #56 4/15/21
« Reply #447 on: April 16, 2021, 06:28:23 AM »

Offline Birdman

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We all know Celtics got the worst bench in NBA, so the starters got to play extra minutes which will be their downfall in playoffs..it’s ashamed..but hope Fournier comes back
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin

Re: Celtics (29-26) at Lakers (34-21) Game #56 4/15/21
« Reply #448 on: April 16, 2021, 06:44:49 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Is Brad drunk?

Why would you play that unit with 6 mins left

This was the same thing that happened vs Raptors

They were up 27 and needed to make about 4 buckets in order for it not to become an issue. They couldn't do that. Not Brad's fault.

I disagree

Brad can never do that again

Maybe with 3 mins left in the game

I agree with this ....the starters worked too hard to put those losers in with 9 minutes to go ...bad on CBS
I don't see the big issue as much.

Whether they play an extra 3 mins or have to play with 3 mins to go - at least with 3 mins to go they've had some nice rest?

The issue is you lose a 27 point lead and the game. If Brad didnt sub in some of the starters. Lakers would have won

Its embarrassing and all the hardwork by Brown and starters/PP goes to waste

If he didn’t sub them in Lakers would have won.

But he did sub them in and Boston won.

We went 3-0 on this trip. 9 out of the last 12. The starters look completely different, and we played this game w/out Time Lord or Fournier. I’m fairly sure the bench unit would’ve been able to rebound and score a few buckets if those guys were available.

It’s no fun losing the lead, but big picture we are miles from where we were mid-March.
Bingo. We've looked a heap better, even while having some disruption with Fournier, Kemba and TL missing games. We've really turned it around over the last month or so.
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Re: Celtics (29-26) at Lakers (34-21) Game #56 4/15/21
« Reply #449 on: April 16, 2021, 06:45:16 AM »

Offline gouki88

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We all know Celtics got the worst bench in NBA, so the starters got to play extra minutes which will be their downfall in playoffs..it’s ashamed..but hope Fournier comes back
I don't think a bench of Fournier/Smart, Pritchard, Thompson and Langford is a bad playoff bench
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)