Kemba over Terry Rozier. Another Ainge blunder

[spikelovetheCelts]

Man, the amount of obnoxious know-it-alls on this thread acting like using hindsight suddenly makes them a genius is quite funny to me.

No doubt. What other choice All Star did Danny have at the time To trade Rozier for?. None. Keep writing guys, Danny did good with the cards Kyrie left us. I think Kemba is figuring out how to win with the J's too. We shall see. Nobody knew this Nets deal was coming.

[BoulderMike]

literally nobody thought terry was a better bet at that price at the time the contracts were signed. nobody.

Agreed.  Now that we look back (admittedly, in hindsight), signing Kemba and trading Rozier for him was a mistake.  Rozier is better than Kemba now (although NOT last year) and makes significantly less. I fully admit it ... I was a big fan of the Kemba move when it happened, but clearly it didn't work out as we all hoped. 

I think it is fair to call it an Ainge blunder.

[Big333223]

Really it is amazing how much PG drama there has been on this club since the end of the KG era.

Before KG, as well.  Lots of debates about Banks, Delonte, Telfair, etc.  I don’t remember much griping about Gary Payton, I guess.

Kenny Anderson had a good stint here. People generally liked him.

Yeah, but imagine if Kenny played during the time of our forums, or worse, social media.  He would have been torn down constantly, especially when Chauncey’s career took off.

Great point. TP.

The Celtics have actually had a pretty incredible run on pg's. This was just the third time since '09-10 they didn't have a PG in the all star game (Rondo '10-13, IT '16-17, Kyrie '18-19, Kemba '20).

[GreenCoffeeBean]

Really it is amazing how much PG drama there has been on this club since the end of the KG era.

Before KG, as well.  Lots of debates about Banks, Delonte, Telfair, etc.  I don’t remember much griping about Gary Payton, I guess.

Kenny Anderson had a good stint here. People generally liked him.

Yeah, but imagine if Kenny played during the time of our forums, or worse, social media.  He would have been torn down constantly, especially when Chauncey’s career took off.

Great point. TP.

The Celtics have actually had a pretty incredible run on pg's. This was just the third time since '09-10 they didn't have a PG in the all star game (Rondo '10-13, IT '16-17, Kyrie '18-19, Kemba '20).

More of an indicator of how weak the East has been at that position. Curry, Lillard, Paul, Westbrook, Conley all in the west.

[Big333223]

Really it is amazing how much PG drama there has been on this club since the end of the KG era.

Before KG, as well.  Lots of debates about Banks, Delonte, Telfair, etc.  I don’t remember much griping about Gary Payton, I guess.

Kenny Anderson had a good stint here. People generally liked him.

Yeah, but imagine if Kenny played during the time of our forums, or worse, social media.  He would have been torn down constantly, especially when Chauncey’s career took off.

Great point. TP.

The Celtics have actually had a pretty incredible run on pg's. This was just the third time since '09-10 they didn't have a PG in the all star game (Rondo '10-13, IT '16-17, Kyrie '18-19, Kemba '20).

More of an indicator of how weak the East has been at that position. Curry, Lillard, Paul, Westbrook, Conley all in the west.

I don't think there's any year there where Conley makes an all star team over a Celtic.

[jambr380]

Not enough being made of the fact that we had a Championship-level team last year if Hayward doesn't get hurt. We don't get that with pre-2021 Rozier. Obviously the Hayward injury derails things, but you go for it when you can and we had a real chance with Kemba leading the way.

The hindsight in this thread is absolutely blinding, though. Who cares that Rozier finally reached the level of Kemba coming off injury? With a healthy Ball and Hayward, and who knows what else coming this summer, Rozier is apt to go off the deep end again next season when he isn't getting enough touches. Just as we should have done in 2018, CHA should sell as high as they can on Rozier this offseason.

[perks-a-beast]

Not enough being made of the fact that we had a Championship-level team last year if Hayward doesn't get hurt. We don't get that with pre-2021 Rozier. Obviously the Hayward injury derails things, but you go for it when you can and we had a real chance with Kemba leading the way.

The hindsight in this thread is absolutely blinding, though. Who cares that Rozier finally reached the level of Kemba coming off injury? With a healthy Ball and Hayward, and who knows what else coming this summer, Rozier is apt to go off the deep end again next season when he isn't getting enough touches. Just as we should have done in 2018, CHA should sell as high as they can on Rozier this offseason.

Its true that a many people here don't like the trade only in hindsight, but I actually remember a good amount of fans not liking it initially - mostly because of Kembas age, defensive deficiencies, and the fact that we just got rid of another ball dominant guard in Kyrie who many believed (correctly) was stunting the developement of Tatum and Brown.

Now i commend Kemba who i believe has really tried hard to fit in to the offensive scheme of the team by not being a ball stopper, even to the point of deferring to others. And obviously he has a great attitude. But im one of those people who has never liked his fit with this team. Now that its clear hes not the same player he once was (he's making the max for another two and a half years to not even be a top ten PG in the league) and we are no where close to contending for a title, i'm more than excited for the day the Celtics part ways with him.

And to say we had a championship level team when we wouldnt have had a snow balls chance in hell against LA...c'mon

[GreenCoffeeBean]

Really it is amazing how much PG drama there has been on this club since the end of the KG era.

Before KG, as well.  Lots of debates about Banks, Delonte, Telfair, etc.  I don’t remember much griping about Gary Payton, I guess.

Kenny Anderson had a good stint here. People generally liked him.

Yeah, but imagine if Kenny played during the time of our forums, or worse, social media.  He would have been torn down constantly, especially when Chauncey’s career took off.

Great point. TP.

The Celtics have actually had a pretty incredible run on pg's. This was just the third time since '09-10 they didn't have a PG in the all star game (Rondo '10-13, IT '16-17, Kyrie '18-19, Kemba '20).

More of an indicator of how weak the East has been at that position. Curry, Lillard, Paul, Westbrook, Conley all in the west.

I don't think there's any year there where Conley makes an all star team over a Celtic.

Mike Conley has been the most underrated player in the NBA for the last decade.

[nickagneta]

Kemba the last 21 games per game numbers:

19.2 points, 5 assists, 3.4 rebounds, 1.1 steals, 0.5 charges drawn, shooting splits of 42.3/36.9/95.4 with TS% of 57.1%


Kemba career averages per game numbers:

19.8 points, 5.4 assists, 3.8 rebounds, 1.3 steals, shooting splits of 41.8/36.0/84.0 with TS% of 53.8%

Kemba, after a bad first 10 games this year, in a reduced role, is still putting up numbers that are almost identical to what he has averaged in his career, only shooting better and scoring more efficiently.

His intangibles are much better than what Rozier brings and his mental fit with the team is extraordinarilly better than Rozier.

I am not seeing some great blunder on Ainge's part bringing in Kemba. Kemba, now that he has been healthy for close to two months, is slipping into that third slot great, in my opinion.

And, I don't have an issue with the contract. It was fair market value at the time and is a great asset to use to bring in a different high salary player in a trade if need be.

[jambr380]

And to say we had a championship level team when we wouldnt have had a snow balls chance in hell against LA...c'mon

I'm not saying we would have been favored, but Bam missed 2 1/2 of the first 3 games and the Heat still took LAL to 6 games. In a hypothetical world where Hayward never gets injured in the bubble, we had as much of a chance as anybody to knock of LAL. We were playing at a really high level even without Hayward. And if not for a couple of incredibly lucky breaks for MIA, we would have been there anyway.

[perks-a-beast]

And to say we had a championship level team when we wouldnt have had a snow balls chance in hell against LA...c'mon

I'm not saying we would have been favored, but Bam missed 2 1/2 of the first 3 games and the Heat still took LAL to 6 games. In a hypothetical world where Hayward never gets injured in the bubble, we had as much of a chance as anybody to knock of LAL. We were playing at a really high level even without Hayward. And if not for a couple of incredibly lucky breaks for MIA, we would have been there anyway.

It pains me to say - because I hate the Lakers as much as the next guy - but with the bigs the Celtics had, AD would have eaten them alive and spit out the pieces he didn’t like. No one on last years team had a shot guarding him. Not to
Mention LeBron plays against the Celtics like his life depends on it.

[Yuckabuck33]

And to say we had a championship level team when we wouldnt have had a snow balls chance in hell against LA...c'mon

I'm not saying we would have been favored, but Bam missed 2 1/2 of the first 3 games and the Heat still took LAL to 6 games. In a hypothetical world where Hayward never gets injured in the bubble, we had as much of a chance as anybody to knock of LAL. We were playing at a really high level even without Hayward. And if not for a couple of incredibly lucky breaks for MIA, we would have been there anyway.

It pains me to say - because I hate the Lakers as much as the next guy - but with the bigs the Celtics had, AD would have eaten them alive and spit out the pieces he didn’t like. No one on last years team had a shot guarding him. Not to
Mention LeBron plays against the Celtics like his life depends on it.

Of course we wouldn't have been favored against LA last year- we never are, since what? 1966?

But I am tired of hearing how we had no chance against the Lakers last year. In the regular season, we blew them out in Boston, and only lost by 1 point in overtime in LA. We might still have lost in the Finals, but we matched up well with them, even without a dream big man. Saying we would have lost is not the sure bet that many, including some Celtics fans, think it is.

[RodyTur10]

Man, the amount of obnoxious know-it-alls on this thread acting like using hindsight suddenly makes them a genius is quite funny to me.

I'm not just using hindsight. And I'm not a know-it-all either. I admit for example, that I was wrong on feeling bad about trading the #1 pick (Fultz) for #3 (Tatum).

But on-topic to the Walker-signing. Until then Ainge was basically betting on two baskets. Trying to compete now (Irving, Horford, Hayward, Morris, Baynes, Smart, Theis) and betting on the future (Tatum, Brown, Rozier, R.Williams, Ojeleye + lots of incoming picks). When Irving made it clear he was leaving (by going silent) and we couldn't trade for Davis, that was the turning point for me.

I knew our core wasn't good enough to win a championship and that it was time to build around Tatum and Brown. I wanted to sign players (mostly bigs) to complement Tatum and Brown. I was willing to take a step back to make two steps forward in the future (my targets were Randle and Bryant(?)). When the news came that we signed Walker I wasn't thrilled. I understood that it was an opportunistic (or panic) move to comfortably keep the team in the playoffs and keep the pressure from the young guys. It was a bit of waste i.m.o. and I was hoping his contract wouldn't be too much of a burden at the end.

Rozier was a back-up PG and I had no hard feelings against his desire to leave. It was basically a given that he was going to look for a new opportunity elsewhere in the offseason. If we had known that Irving wasn't going to resign whatsoever earlier thrn maybe we could have contemplated about the price at which we would be willing to resign Rozier, but that wasn't an issue at that moment.

For me it hasn't been a huge surprise that Brown and Tatum are All Stars now. Their development has gone even faster perhaps than expected, but Brown having a down year as a 13PPG bench player was fully a result of a the circumstances around the team at that time. I was a believer in Brown and I was happy with his extension from the beginning even though many NBA followers doubted whether he was worthy of that contract.

Just like Brown and Tatum (post-draft), I'm also a firm believer in the potential of Robert Williams. People may call me nuts, but I think he has some special skills. I have him as the X-factor for whether the Celtics can become a perennial contender. Timelord can be better than Capela and become a borderline All Star and maybe that isn't even out of the question. Always Mitchell Robinson as his superior comparison in the media or fora, but I have been saying
that the only thing that's holding back Timelord is playing time to show he's the better player.

Coming back to Walker. I sure hope that his trading value is positive as some posters argue. If there are teams lining up to pick up Walker then our off-season becomes a lot easier. I fear that picks will be needed to get rid of his contract.

[gouki88]

Really it is amazing how much PG drama there has been on this club since the end of the KG era.

Before KG, as well.  Lots of debates about Banks, Delonte, Telfair, etc.  I don’t remember much griping about Gary Payton, I guess.

Kenny Anderson had a good stint here. People generally liked him.

Yeah, but imagine if Kenny played during the time of our forums, or worse, social media.  He would have been torn down constantly, especially when Chauncey’s career took off.

Great point. TP.

The Celtics have actually had a pretty incredible run on pg's. This was just the third time since '09-10 they didn't have a PG in the all star game (Rondo '10-13, IT '16-17, Kyrie '18-19, Kemba '20).

More of an indicator of how weak the East has been at that position. Curry, Lillard, Paul, Westbrook, Conley all in the west.

I don't think there's any year there where Conley makes an all star team over a Celtic.

Mike Conley has been the most underrated player in the NBA for the last decade.

Not really. Conley is and has been a fine player, but he’s not elite at any one thing and I don’t think has ever been the best player on his team. Tough to make an All-Star case given that, and he shouldn’t have been one this year

[jambr380]

Man, the amount of obnoxious know-it-alls on this thread acting like using hindsight suddenly makes them a genius is quite funny to me.

I knew our core wasn't good enough to win a championship and that it was time to build around Tatum and Brown. I wanted to sign players (mostly bigs) to complement Tatum and Brown. I was willing to take a step back to make two steps forward in the future (my targets were Randle and Bryant(?)). When the news came that we signed Walker I wasn't thrilled. I understood that it was an opportunistic (or panic) move to comfortably keep the team in the playoffs and keep the pressure from the young guys. It was a bit of waste i.m.o. and I was hoping his contract wouldn't be too much of a burden at the end.

That's just the thing I was trying to argue above, though. If not for the unfortunate Hayward injury, we would have been in the Finals w/ as good of a chance as any to knock off the Lakers.  Going into the season, it may not have looked to fans like we had a Championship contender, but Danny was right to sign the best FA possible and give it a go. Unfortunately Hayward's entire tenure with the Cs was marred by injuries/recovery.