Kemba over Terry Rozier. Another Ainge blunder

[Erik]

There have been a lot of people who have mocked Danny for not trading Rozier sooner. Lots of memes about how he wouldn't trade him for LeBron for example. He finally trades him for an all-star and he messed up? Results oriented thinking.

[td450]

He's immature, and he's a ballhog who struggles being the fourth or fifth option on the court. He'd consequently take touches away from Brown and Tatum when their development is the most important aspect of the next two seasons.

Rozier was frustrated and thought he had proven he was ready to play. The C's didn't carve out a spot for him.

To be fair to the C's, that next season, Marcus Smart was playing better to start the season.

To be fair to Terry, he was clearly right in the longer run. He's now a far better player than Smart or Walker. To the point where it's embarrassing.

Kemba is not immature per se, but the rest of that statement above fits him somewhat better that it would Rozier. He hardly provides any on-court maturity and leadership. He just either scores or doesn't. He is incapable of adjusting. He makes more errors of awareness than most point guards do.

It is a bit unfair to characterize this as Kemba over Terry Rozier. The blunder was in not trading Kyrie off after the first season, and choosing to try Rozier as a starter. Ainge wasn't even willing to trade Rozier or Smart either. He just refused to choose anything.

[LilRip]

The biggest problem with having scary Terry on your roster is that his expectation of his role exceeds his actual ability. I think he’s plenty talented and if he’s the 4th best player on the team,  that’s probably a really good team. Unfortunately, Rozier wants to play like the 1st or 2nd option and if that’s the case, the team probably hovers at about 0.500.

[td450]

The biggest problem with having scary Terry on your roster is that his expectation of his role exceeds his actual ability. I think he’s plenty talented and if he’s the 4th best player on the team,  that’s probably a really good team. Unfortunately, Rozier wants to play like the 1st or 2nd option and if that’s the case, the team probably hovers at about 0.500.

Doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Rozier didn't freak out when Devonte Graham emerged as a lead scorer in Charlotte. He stayed in his lane and had a nice season. Next year Hayward shows up, and Rozier doesn't freak out. He improves, but doesn't get in Hayward's way. They have young players just like us but theirs are improving more than ours.

It surely must have occurred to you that we are under .500 right now. That Rozier toyed with Walker and Smart last night.

[slamtheking]

it's funny how people can tell who creates a complaint thread (bash Ainge, bash Brad, bash Celtic player X, Trade X player for anyone, etc...) just by the title.  guessed this one right. 

[Moranis]

Rozier had to go.  He was a cancer.  No real getting around that.  That doesn't mean Kemba should have been the target though.  I do think that was a mistake by Ainge as Walker never really made sense for the team.  They didn't need a score first PG, especially one that isn't an elite shooter.  Team needed someone more like Brogdon, who should have been the target that summer.

[td450]

Rozier had to go.  He was a cancer.  No real getting around that.  That doesn't mean Kemba should have been the target though.  I do think that was a mistake by Ainge as Walker never really made sense for the team.  They didn't need a score first PG, especially one that isn't an elite shooter.  Team needed someone more like Brogdon, who should have been the target that summer.

Says the man who wanted to trade for James Harden.

Rozier was pushed down below Kyrie and Marcus Smart into a role akin to what Brad Wanamaker had last year. He's a fairly efficient 20 ppg scorer now. I agree it became unmanageable, but let's not pretend the team didn't put him in a place that threatened his career.

[LilRip]

The biggest problem with having scary Terry on your roster is that his expectation of his role exceeds his actual ability. I think he’s plenty talented and if he’s the 4th best player on the team,  that’s probably a really good team. Unfortunately, Rozier wants to play like the 1st or 2nd option and if that’s the case, the team probably hovers at about 0.500.

Doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Rozier didn't freak out when Devonte Graham emerged as a lead scorer in Charlotte. He stayed in his lane and had a nice season. Next year Hayward shows up, and Rozier doesn't freak out. He improves, but doesn't get in Hayward's way. They have young players just like us but theirs are improving more than ours.

It surely must have occurred to you that we are under .500 right now. That Rozier toyed with Walker and Smart last night.

Maybe we didn’t watch the same game. Smart locked Rozier up after the 1st quarter.

And is it him staying out of Hayward’s way? Or does Hayward have this awesome ability of being able to deliver what a team needs? When GH was here (contrary to what some might think), he was great. Not max-contract great but he definitely helped others become great. That’s not something we can say about Terry. Matter of fact, when Rozier was here, playing with Kyrie, Brown, Tatum and Hayward, he didn’t say anything either but he often played selfishly and it culminated in the off-season. Or did you miss that interview?

[Moranis]

Rozier had to go.  He was a cancer.  No real getting around that.  That doesn't mean Kemba should have been the target though.  I do think that was a mistake by Ainge as Walker never really made sense for the team.  They didn't need a score first PG, especially one that isn't an elite shooter.  Team needed someone more like Brogdon, who should have been the target that summer.

Says the man who wanted to trade for James Harden.

Rozier was pushed down below Kyrie and Marcus Smart into a role akin to what Brad Wanamaker had last year. He's a fairly efficient 20 ppg scorer now. I agree it became unmanageable, but let's not pretend the team didn't put him in a place that threatened his career.

He played 23 mpg and was a spot starter.  That is pretty good for a back-up PG, which he was as he isn't as good as Irving.  In fact, he was a back-up PG his entire time in Boston.  That isn't threatening his career.  That is a recognition that Thomas and Irving were quite simply just better players than him.  Not surprising either as they weren't on their rookie contract and had been in the league awhile.  I have no issue with Rozier wanting to go to a place to start.  He should want that, but he was a cancer because of his attitude, his mouth, etc.  It was the same reason Thomas needed to go.  His mouth was starting to cause problems, but at least his play supported his mouth until he got hurt.  Rozier's play was never good enough for him to be a lockerroom problem.

[td450]

The biggest problem with having scary Terry on your roster is that his expectation of his role exceeds his actual ability. I think he’s plenty talented and if he’s the 4th best player on the team,  that’s probably a really good team. Unfortunately, Rozier wants to play like the 1st or 2nd option and if that’s the case, the team probably hovers at about 0.500.

Doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Rozier didn't freak out when Devonte Graham emerged as a lead scorer in Charlotte. He stayed in his lane and had a nice season. Next year Hayward shows up, and Rozier doesn't freak out. He improves, but doesn't get in Hayward's way. They have young players just like us but theirs are improving more than ours.

It surely must have occurred to you that we are under .500 right now. That Rozier toyed with Walker and Smart last night.

Maybe we didn’t watch the same game. Smart locked Rozier up after the 1st quarter.

And is it him staying out of Hayward’s way? Or does Hayward have this awesome ability of being able to deliver what a team needs? When GH was here (contrary to what some might think), he was great. Not max-contract great but he definitely helped others become great. That’s not something we can say about Terry. Matter of fact, when Rozier was here, playing with Kyrie, Brown, Tatum and Hayward, he didn’t say anything either but he often played selfishly and it culminated in the off-season. Or did you miss that interview?

Hayward took his awesome ability from here over to there. Decided here wasn't conducive to his awesomeness, but there was. Where Terry was.

We now have Walker and Smart, and everything you are complaining about concerning Rozier (minus a couple of interviews) is happening here with them. I didn't like how Rozier handled things at the end, but the C's did make him odd man out, and he resented it.

He thought he was better, and he eventually backed up that claim.

[Roy H.]

In Boston, Rozier played 5433 minutes.  During that time, he never shot over 40% from the field in any season.  He never had an eFG% above .500. He was quite bad as a shooter, although he did have one good year from 3PT (38%, which he nullified by shooting 41% from 2PT).

To his credit, he worked his butt off to improve his outside chart. Last year his efficiency was still mediocre, but it has been excellent this year.  He’s a better player than he was for sure.

But also keep in mind, he is charlottes shooting guard.  He leads their team in shots per game, even in front of Gordon Hayward.

How would that work here? How effective is the following lineup?

Timelord
Tatum
Brown
Rozier
Smart

With that roster construction, I would rather have Kemba. Rozier never would have had the freedom to chuck up as many shots as he wanted.

[Walker Wiggle]

I'm really getting fatigued by this particular brand of Ainge bashing.

The Celtics front office are calculated risk takers. Sometimes they take the right risks and they don't pay off. In this case, they decided to trade a young, disgruntled PG who most of us wanted Brad Wanamaker to play over in his last season for a multi-time all-star who had hardly ever missed a game to injury in his career to that point.

It went the other way. The iron man all-star turned out to have knee problems, and the young inefficient PG turned into a polished 4th quarter scorer and elite 3-point shooter.

More to the point: Can anyone show any evidence whatsoever that at the time of the trade, they thought it was a bad move?

[Moranis]

The biggest problem with having scary Terry on your roster is that his expectation of his role exceeds his actual ability. I think he’s plenty talented and if he’s the 4th best player on the team,  that’s probably a really good team. Unfortunately, Rozier wants to play like the 1st or 2nd option and if that’s the case, the team probably hovers at about 0.500.

Doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Rozier didn't freak out when Devonte Graham emerged as a lead scorer in Charlotte. He stayed in his lane and had a nice season. Next year Hayward shows up, and Rozier doesn't freak out. He improves, but doesn't get in Hayward's way. They have young players just like us but theirs are improving more than ours.

It surely must have occurred to you that we are under .500 right now. That Rozier toyed with Walker and Smart last night.

Maybe we didn’t watch the same game. Smart locked Rozier up after the 1st quarter.

And is it him staying out of Hayward’s way? Or does Hayward have this awesome ability of being able to deliver what a team needs? When GH was here (contrary to what some might think), he was great. Not max-contract great but he definitely helped others become great. That’s not something we can say about Terry. Matter of fact, when Rozier was here, playing with Kyrie, Brown, Tatum and Hayward, he didn’t say anything either but he often played selfishly and it culminated in the off-season. Or did you miss that interview?

Hayward took his awesome ability from here over to there. Decided here wasn't conducive to his awesomeness, but there was. Where Terry was.

We now have Walker and Smart, and everything you are complaining about concerning Rozier (minus a couple of interviews) is happening here with them. I didn't like how Rozier handled things at the end, but the C's did make him odd man out, and he resented it.

He thought he was better, and he eventually backed up that claim.

Rozier wasn't the odd man out.  He was the back-up PG because there was a better player in front of him. 

[KG Living Legend]

In Boston, Rozier played 5433 minutes.  During that time, he never shot over 40% from the field in any season.  He never had an eFG% above .500. He was quite bad as a shooter, although he did have one good year from 3PT (38%, which he nullified by shooting 41% from 2PT).

To his credit, he worked his butt off to improve his outside chart. Last year his efficiency was still mediocre, but it has been excellent this year.  He’s a better player than he was for sure.

But also keep in mind, he is charlottes shooting guard.  He leads their team in shots per game, even in front of Gordon Hayward.

How would that work here? How effective is the following lineup?

Timelord
Tatum
Brown
Rozier
Smart

With that roster construction, I would rather have Kemba. Rozier never would have had the freedom to chuck up as many shots as he wanted.

 Except.  Danny has an obsession with midget PGs. Thomas 5'7" Tremont Waters 5'9" carsen Edward's  5' 10" and now another sub 6 foot PG in Kemba who he paid 140 million dollars to.

 Does anyone like this philosophy a midget PGs? Kemba was torched in the heat series cause he's just too small. 

 I was all for drafting Haliburton pre-draft. That's the kind of PG I'm always looking for. Great size, guard multiple positions. Great floor leader. 

 Prichard is solid. So I give him a point there. Haliburton would have made a world of difference on this team and I knew it.

 I would have traded 4 firsts to get him. All 3 picks this year plus a future pick if needed. 

[td450]

I'm really getting fatigued by this particular brand of Ainge bashing.

The Celtics front office are calculated risk takers. Sometimes they take the right risks and they don't pay off. In this case, they decided to trade a young, disgruntled PG who most of us wanted Brad Wanamaker to play over in his last season for a multi-time all-star who had hardly ever missed a game to injury in his career to that point.

It went the other way. The iron man all-star turned out to have knee problems, and the young inefficient PG turned into a polished 4th quarter scorer and elite 3-point shooter.

More to the point: Can anyone show any evidence whatsoever that at the time of the trade, they thought it was a bad move?

At the point of the trade, it was necessary. The criticism I've made was that we should never have gotten there.

A number of posters questioned Kyrie's maturity to handle the role we found himself in with Boston. I was one of them. It already seemed pretty obvious to me that we got lucky getting out from under the IT situation, but it wasn't a long term solution. I also argued at the time that we needed to decide on Smart or Rozier, and that not deciding was a mistake.

Its just not accurate to claim those questions weren't argued by many posters here. It was.

We are where we are because Ainge has inexplicably become overly risk averse ever since grabbing Tatum in a brilliant move. Ever since, he has been indecisive.