Last Year to This Year -- What Changed?

[footey]

In today's Celtics Talk Podcast, Chris Forsberg's new side kick is Amina Smith, who was previously working in Chicago, and admittedly has only recently followed the Celtics.

When asked her opinion on the Celtics' problems, she said the Celtics reminded her of a team that is just going through the motions. 

Sometimes it really boils down to this, does it not?  Guys are not playing hard enough on a consistent basis. 

[liam]

I think with a very young team no summer league, training camp or preseason really hurts. The schedule has been brutal. Lot's of players in an out of the line up. Teague was a waste of time. Covid. No Garden crowd. LOOOOOng road trips. Smart being injured and inconsistent. Brown's tendinitis. The best thing from last game is that Brown finally got some much needed rest. That game off Tatum got really helped him. Our whole season so far has been like an extended preseason with no set rotation and the roles changing a lot from game to game. Kemba in and out of the line up constantly. Did I leave anything out?

[timpiker]

Thanks for the great analysis.  I see 2 things.  A LOT of 3's. When they drop, the team is good.  When they don't, the team sucks.  Does the data show this?  And I do think something is wrong in the locker room. 

[liam]

Thanks for the great analysis.  I see 2 things.  A LOT of 3's. When they drop, the team is good.  When they don't, the team sucks.  Does the data show this?  And I do think something is wrong in the locker room.

It's the same problem we've had in past years were Brad just force feeds minutes to "His" players and doesn't sit guys who are stinking it up. I want a good rotation with consistency but there has to be accountability or everyone is left wondering how to get more minutes and if no matter what they do some guys on this team ( cough, cough, Smart... Glad Teague and Theis are gone so they don't take minutes when they are playing poorly) just get force fed minutes no matter how bad they play. Hayward being force fed minutes when he clearly was horrid was demoralizing in the passed and he left anyway. Part of the reason maybe Danny let him go was to get Brad off his Binky. Watching Smart barking at guys while the player he's "Guarding" back cuts him is getting old. Smart should lead more by example. We have smart players they can see when someone is playing bad and still getting 38 minutes a game.

[PhoSita]

Thanks for the great analysis.  I see 2 things.  A LOT of 3's. When they drop, the team is good.  When they don't, the team sucks.  Does the data show this?  And I do think something is wrong in the locker room.

I'm sure the team's record is wildly, overwhelmingly better when they hit a high number of threes versus when they don't.

That said, to my mind the bigger issue is the number of open or relatively open outside shots the opponents are getting and making.

[PhoSita]

In today's Celtics Talk Podcast, Chris Forsberg's new side kick is Amina Smith, who was previously working in Chicago, and admittedly has only recently followed the Celtics.

When asked her opinion on the Celtics' problems, she said the Celtics reminded her of a team that is just going through the motions. 

Sometimes it really boils down to this, does it not?  Guys are not playing hard enough on a consistent basis.

Yeah that's basically my takeaway too, and I feel silly saying that because it seems like such a lazy take.  Like, OK, can you offer anything more than that you think they're not trying hard enough?  But I really can't come up with a better explanation than that.

They're young, they're tired, they didn't get a long enough off-season, the young guys didn't get a summer league, the coach is a guy who probably relies a lot on practices and film sessions and they don't really have time for either, and it all adds up to a team that just isn't feeling it.

[liam]

Thanks for the great analysis.  I see 2 things.  A LOT of 3's. When they drop, the team is good.  When they don't, the team sucks.  Does the data show this?  And I do think something is wrong in the locker room.

I'm sure the team's record is wildly, overwhelmingly better when they hit a high number of threes versus when they don't.

That said, to my mind the bigger issue is the number of open or relatively open outside shots the opponents are getting and making.

Smart also ruins the spacing when he's on the floor. There's a reason you're open Marcus. Also very tired of The Celtics cheating off the corners and give wide open short corner threes every game. Only teams that can't shoot, and there are few in the NBA, don't take massive advantage of this.

[Celtics4ever]

Over reliance on bench players that can't play.   Not getting solid help in the draft.  last year our max contract PG played ok prior to injury.

As for the playing hard, some of our guys could play hard every play like Grant and he still is not that good or productive because of inherent limitations too slow, not enough length.   I know guys think that effort is the end all but sometimes your just not good enough.   That being said you have to be really good to make it to the NBA but I am speaking relative to other NBA talent.  Half a bench of G League level talent.  I hope the new guys can help with their size and Fournier adds the badly needed wing depth.

[gouki88]

Great post.

I understand the offensive decline. A lot of that data was before Kemba aggravated his injury, and was playing like an all NBA point guard. Hayward was playing like an all-star as well.  The pieces to an elite offense have been downgraded.

It’s the defensive decline that is shocking. Other than laziness and lack of focus, I just don’t know how you account for that.

The defence has been what startles me too. How has this happened?

[NKY fan]

 I think people have unrealistic views of the talent level of this team.
Theis who was somewhere in the 3-5 best player on our team range returned laughable haul at the trade deadline and he was on very team friendly contract.

[gouki88]

I think people have unrealistic views of the talent level of this team.
Theis who was somewhere in the 3-5 best player on our team range returned laughable haul at the trade deadline and he was on very team friendly contract.

What is your definition of team friendly? Does it include some point about being an expiring contract in a matter of months?

[PhoSita]

I think people have unrealistic views of the talent level of this team.
Theis who was somewhere in the 3-5 best player on our team range returned laughable haul at the trade deadline and he was on very team friendly contract.

It was a last second trade made to avoid the luxury tax, and the other team knew. Never gonna get a fair value return in that situation.

[colincb]

I think people have unrealistic views of the talent level of this team.
Theis who was somewhere in the 3-5 best player on our team range returned laughable haul at the trade deadline and he was on very team friendly contract.

It was a last second trade made to avoid the luxury tax, and the other team knew. Never gonna get a fair value return in that situation.

Theis was also a FA after the season. You never get near full value for a player who may well end up being a rental.

We got Fournier for two second-rounders. Didn't have much to do with his production.

[NKY fan]

I think people have unrealistic views of the talent level of this team.
Theis who was somewhere in the 3-5 best player on our team range returned laughable haul at the trade deadline and he was on very team friendly contract.

What is your definition of team friendly? Does it include some point about being an expiring contract in a matter of months?

Team friendly means you don't have to a whole lot to match salaries. If you want to bolster your front court for the playoffs it is really easy to execute a trade. Heck Charlotte could have just absorbed him in their cap space and they need bigs bad.

[GreenCoffeeBean]

I think people have unrealistic views of the talent level of this team.
Theis who was somewhere in the 3-5 best player on our team range returned laughable haul at the trade deadline and he was on very team friendly contract.

TP for keeping it real. Not only are we short on talent, but I think the Jay's, and Tatum especially, are learning the hard way what it takes to lead a team day in and day out. Those two have had it easy in terms of being on deep playoff runs early in their career. Now they hopefully know you need to work for it.

On the bright side, we have a very clear path forward for the offseason and next year:

-  Find out what we have in our young players Nesmith, Pritchard, and Langford
- Get rid of Kemba and his awful contract and bring in either the third piece or good veteran depth
- Trade Smart if he can't accept a role where he shoots a lot less