Theis & Green to Chicago for Mo Wagner & Luke Kornet...Teague to ORL...

[blink]

So I'm confused, we traded $5M Daniel Theis for $2.25M Luke Kornet and $2.2M Moritz Wagner. That is $5M for $4.45M.

With Teague going to Orlando in the Fournier deal, couldn't we have just found a landing spot for Javonte with the cash that we send out? And if we waive Kornet to open up a roster spot, are we still going to be under the tax if we sign a buy-out player?

How is there not even a 2nd rounder coming back to us? We get two useless players for one productive one and they basically make the same money. This deal sucks.

+1, I have no idea what the big plan is in all this mess.  I guess we aren't trying to make the playoffs anymore?

[Smartacus]

Really like this move, Wagner feels like a real forward thinking pickup and it pushed us under the cap. I get people are attached to Theis but Wagner is as close to an approximation of Theis as you're going to find and he is less redundant to Timelord and TT than Theis was. I expect Wagner will be a full rotation player for us within 2 seasons.

Kudos to Danny for getting involved in the Chicago trade. Seems like Chicago wanted Theis but didn't have anything we were interested in so Danny had them go out and pick up Wagner for us. If that's how it went down, that's high level GM'ing from a Vet.

**Note: I do not get the Kornett side of this deal**

[jambr380]

Would we have been better off keeping Theis, and sign-and-trading him in the off-season?  We could have signed Wagner presumably with a part of the MLE.

Yeah I don't get it at all with Theis.  Trading our best center for a not-great center because you aren't going to be able to resign him? 

All these small moves don't add up to any understandable approach to me.  What was our goal at the trade deadline?  It feels like we are taking a step back a bit.  If we are going to do that, then go full in with becoming a seller and ship off some of the other riff raff from our roster as well.

After the Fournier deal, I was worried about Theis getting traded since we needed to get under the tax. I thought a team would take advantage of us because of our situation and only send one or two 2nds. Nope, instead we get similar salary coming back, much worse players, and no picks. Moritz and Kornet - are you kidding me?

[Who]

Really like this move, Wagner feels like a real forward thinking pickup and it pushed us under the cap. I get people are attached to Theis but Wagner is as close to an approximation of Theis as you're going to find and he is less redundant to Timelord and TT than Theis was. I expect Wagner will be a full rotation player for us within 2 seasons.

Without any of Theis' defense which was his best contribution.

Mo Wagner is one of the worst defenders in the league. He is slow immobile cannot cover smaller quicker players, cannot cover the PnR and offers no shot blocking at the rim because he cannot jump.

[Jvalin]

So I'm confused, we traded $5M Daniel Theis for $2.25M Luke Kornet and $2.2M Moritz Wagner. That is $5M for $4.45M.

With Teague going to Orlando in the Fournier deal, couldn't we have just found a landing spot for Javonte with the cash that we send out? And if we waive Kornet to open up a roster spot, are we still going to be under the tax if we sign a buy-out player?

How is there not even a 2nd rounder coming back to us? We get two useless players for one productive one and they basically make the same money. This deal sucks.

+1, I have no idea what the big plan is in all this mess.  I guess we aren't trying to make the playoffs anymore?

We are definitely trying to make the playoffs, otherwise we wouldn't have traded for Fournier.

[Roy H.]

Would we have been better off keeping Theis, and sign-and-trading him in the off-season?  We could have signed Wagner presumably with a part of the MLE.

I guess it's all about avoiding the tax. At the end of the day, we aren't legit contenders regardless.

Imo, we could/should have gotten a better deal for Theis.

We should have waive the green at the beginning of the season, which would have solved most of this particular problem. It’s hard for me to believe that another team wouldn’t have taken green for cash or a token asset.  We should have easily been able to avoid the entire Chicago trade.

I’m not sure how trading Theis for a lesser free agent and a scrub free agent makes us better.

[Sophomore]

Yeah, this deal I really am struggling to get. He’s taller. Is the idea to have one center on our pu pu platter who’s a little taller, for certain matchups? Is this a tryout to be our third string center? If it doesn’t save salary or give us his bird rights, why do it?

[blink]

So I'm confused, we traded $5M Daniel Theis for $2.25M Luke Kornet and $2.2M Moritz Wagner. That is $5M for $4.45M.

With Teague going to Orlando in the Fournier deal, couldn't we have just found a landing spot for Javonte with the cash that we send out? And if we waive Kornet to open up a roster spot, are we still going to be under the tax if we sign a buy-out player?

How is there not even a 2nd rounder coming back to us? We get two useless players for one productive one and they basically make the same money. This deal sucks.

+1, I have no idea what the big plan is in all this mess.  I guess we aren't trying to make the playoffs anymore?

We are definitely trying to make the playoffs, otherwise we wouldn't have traded for Fournier.

Then why deal Theis?  He was our best center for this year.  What we got back seems a poor return.  I know others are higher on Wagner than me.  It just seems like there isn't any overall plan for all these random moves.

[blink]

Would we have been better off keeping Theis, and sign-and-trading him in the off-season?  We could have signed Wagner presumably with a part of the MLE.

I guess it's all about avoiding the tax. At the end of the day, we aren't legit contenders regardless.

Imo, we could/should have gotten a better deal for Theis.

We should have waive the green at the beginning of the season, which would have solved most of this particular problem. It’s hard for me to believe that another team wouldn’t have taken green for cash or a token asset.  We should have easily been able to avoid the entire Chicago trade.

I’m not sure how trading Theis for a lesser free agent and a scrub free agent makes us better.

It doesn't, especially if we are trying to actually make the playoffs.  If we are just unloading assets to reboot with a core 4-5 guys go all in with that and then get into the lottery.  These moves don't add up to a coherent strategy.

[jambr380]

If Theis really is going to get $12-15M/yr, how on earth were we only able to get Mo Wagner and Luke Kornet for him? Seems like a misevaluation of valuation.

[Jvalin]

Really like this move, Wagner feels like a real forward thinking pickup and it pushed us under the cap. I get people are attached to Theis but Wagner is as close to an approximation of Theis as you're going to find and he is less redundant to Timelord and TT than Theis was. I expect Wagner will be a full rotation player for us within 2 seasons.

Without any of Theis' defense which was his best contribution.

Mo Wagner is one of the worst defenders in the league. He is slow immobile cannot cover smaller quicker players, cannot cover the PnR and offers no shot blocking at the rim because he cannot jump.

Well, his defensive metrics tell a very different story.

defensive RAPTOR: +4.5
DBPM: +0.9

Problem is, he ain't a switchable defender like Theis. We'll have to use him in a drop scheme, like we do whenever Timelord is on the court. Don't like the fit in our defensive system. That said, he's a great fit on the offensive side of the ball.

[Roy H.]

So I'm confused, we traded $5M Daniel Theis for $2.25M Luke Kornet and $2.2M Moritz Wagner. That is $5M for $4.45M.

With Teague going to Orlando in the Fournier deal, couldn't we have just found a landing spot for Javonte with the cash that we send out? And if we waive Kornet to open up a roster spot, are we still going to be under the tax if we sign a buy-out player?

How is there not even a 2nd rounder coming back to us? We get two useless players for one productive one and they basically make the same money. This deal sucks.

+1, I have no idea what the big plan is in all this mess.  I guess we aren't trying to make the playoffs anymore?

We are definitely trying to make the playoffs, otherwise we wouldn't have traded for Fournier.

Then why deal Theis?  He was our best center for this year.  What we got back seems a poor return.  I know others are higher on Wagner than me.  It just seems like there isn't any overall plan for all these random moves.

I think that there’s a plan.  It’s just not really about this season.  I assume that Danny sees Wagner as a potential long term rotation piece, and Fournier as a key player moving forward.

I believe that Danny could have served both goals. We could have kept Theis, signed and traded him in the off-season, and signed Wagner as a cheap free agent.

[RJ87]

If Theis really is going to get $12-15M/yr, how on earth were we only able to get Mo Wagner and Luke Kornet for him? Seems like a misevaluation of valuation.

The same way Evan Fournier only got 2 2nd rounders... No one wants to give up value for a guy who could walk in free agency.

[Roy H.]

Really like this move, Wagner feels like a real forward thinking pickup and it pushed us under the cap. I get people are attached to Theis but Wagner is as close to an approximation of Theis as you're going to find and he is less redundant to Timelord and TT than Theis was. I expect Wagner will be a full rotation player for us within 2 seasons.

Without any of Theis' defense which was his best contribution.

Mo Wagner is one of the worst defenders in the league. He is slow immobile cannot cover smaller quicker players, cannot cover the PnR and offers no shot blocking at the rim because he cannot jump.

Well, his defensive metrics tell a very different story.

defensive RAPTOR: +4.5
DBPM: +0.9

Problem is, he ain't a switchable defender like Theis. We'd have to use him in a drop scheme, like we do whenever Timelord is on the court. Don't like the fit in our defensive system. That said, he's a great fit on the offensive side of the ball.

I believe that we will have room for a prorated minimum salary, but it’s very slim and we don’t have the official numbers that the Celtics are working with.

[blink]

So I'm confused, we traded $5M Daniel Theis for $2.25M Luke Kornet and $2.2M Moritz Wagner. That is $5M for $4.45M.

With Teague going to Orlando in the Fournier deal, couldn't we have just found a landing spot for Javonte with the cash that we send out? And if we waive Kornet to open up a roster spot, are we still going to be under the tax if we sign a buy-out player?

How is there not even a 2nd rounder coming back to us? We get two useless players for one productive one and they basically make the same money. This deal sucks.

+1, I have no idea what the big plan is in all this mess.  I guess we aren't trying to make the playoffs anymore?

We are definitely trying to make the playoffs, otherwise we wouldn't have traded for Fournier.

Then why deal Theis?  He was our best center for this year.  What we got back seems a poor return.  I know others are higher on Wagner than me.  It just seems like there isn't any overall plan for all these random moves.

I think that there’s a plan.  It’s just not really about this season.  I assume that Danny sees Wagner as a potential long term rotation piece, and Fournier as a key player moving forward.

I believe that Danny could have served both goals. We could have kept Theis, signed and traded him in the off-season, and signed Wagner as a cheap free agent.

So that assumes we are able to resign Fournier?  We've been down that road before...lol

I agree with you on Theis.  No reason to deal him if we didn't have to.