Danny on T&R: We're Not Good Enough

[Neurotic Guy]

As of right now, I don't think that's groundbreaking stuff or anything.  It's pretty apparent.

What is groundbreaking is that a GM actually said out loud what is obviously true.  I give Danny credit for that.

Yes, but demoralizing from the players' perspective.  It is basically saying that we will need to make trades/cut guys before we can be more competitive.

I agree. Somewhat surprised he put it out there. We aren’t a rebuilding team, we are one that’s been to three of the last 4 ECF. I get our roster is vastly different than it was 4 seasons ago, and hey, maybe it lights a fire under Tatum/Brown. But the other guys, especially the end of bench guys? They have to hear that and think they are on the chopping block to get traded or cut (for a player that gets bought out).

Yes and all other GMs hear that our bench guys aren't very good.   I don't blame DA for stating it, but I think it lends credence to the idea that there is not much value to be returned for guys who don't really contribute very much to an NBA team.

[Roy H.]

The only thing that I do not want to see — and I think this is exactly what will happen — is for management to use our non-contender status as an excuse to not use the TPE or otherwise spend money.

The team should use every dollar available to it under the luxury tax this season to add talent, and should go over the lax line to add talent in the off-season.

[GreenWarrior]

Sadly I'm only using that exception unless it actually makes us a better team, like moves the needle.

Blake griffin doesn't do that... Who I would actually take but not for what it would take.

There's really only marginal help available. We're stuck drafting and grooming young guys. Yay...

[Kuberski33]

Sadly I'm only using that exception unless it actually makes us a better team, like moves the needle.

Blake griffin doesn't do that... Who I would actually take but not for what it would take.

There's really only marginal help available. We're stuck drafting and grooming young guys. Yay...

Yup. None of them will have any trade value until they develop to the point where they give you consistency. So it's either that or move Tatum, Jaylen or Smart - those are basically the options.

[NKY fan]

The only thing that I do not want to see — and I think this is exactly what will happen — is for management to use our non-contender status as an excuse to not use the TPE or otherwise spend money.

The team should use every dollar available to it under the luxury tax this season to add talent, and should go over the lax line to add talent in the off-season.

there is always some excuse lol

[Vermont Green]

The only thing that I do not want to see — and I think this is exactly what will happen — is for management to use our non-contender status as an excuse to not use the TPE or otherwise spend money.

The team should use every dollar available to it under the luxury tax this season to add talent, and should go over the lax line to add talent in the off-season.

I agree that this should not be an excuse and I actually don't think it will be.  For example, if you think you can make a good deal for say Harrison Barnes, that the deal makes the team better, then you do the deal whether you think it makes you the 5th best in the east or the 2nd best.

It can go both ways.  There is risk that you reach to do a deal because you think you are close.  That is no better or worse than not doing a deal because you think you aren't close.  It is not like the Celtics are going to have a fire sale or anything like that.  Or just absorb bad salaries to get draft picks.

I feel confident that Danny will make a deal now or anytime if he thinks it is a good deal.  We fans may agree or disagree with Danny's assessment of the deal but I don't think the standings are going to pressure Danny into a deal he might not otherwise do, nor should they.

[bdm860]

The only thing that I do not want to see — and I think this is exactly what will happen — is for management to use our non-contender status as an excuse to not use the TPE or otherwise spend money.

The team should use every dollar available to it under the luxury tax this season to add talent, and should go over the lax line to add talent in the off-season.

I agree that this should not be an excuse and I actually don't think it will be.  For example, if you think you can make a good deal for say Harrison Barnes, that the deal makes the team better, then you do the deal whether you think it makes you the 5th best in the east or the 2nd best.

It can go both ways.  There is risk that you reach to do a deal because you think you are close.  That is no better or worse than not doing a deal because you think you aren't close.  It is not like the Celtics are going to have a fire sale or anything like that.  Or just absorb bad salaries to get draft picks.

I feel confident that Danny will make a deal now or anytime if he thinks it is a good deal.  We fans may agree or disagree with Danny's assessment of the deal but I don't think the standings are going to pressure Danny into a deal he might not otherwise do, nor should they.

I'm not worried either.  I'm struggling to think of any time when Danny and the current ownership structure made (or didn't make) moves based primarily on not wanting to spend money.  From '03-'15 the team was always over the cap (I remember this because in 2015 the C's had to renounce a bunch of players like Roshown McLeod, Dana Barros, Mark Bryant, and Grant Long to actually sign players with cap space).

Sure I can think of times when they didn't want to spend money (Horford, James Posey, Antoine Walker's 2nd term, etc.), but that was because they didn't think those players were worth the contracts, not that they weren't willing to spend.

Last time the team was .500ish, they went out and signed Amir Johnson for $12m per year.  As long as the teams not full on tanking, I think they will be willing to spend within reason.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Sadly I'm only using that exception unless it actually makes us a better team, like moves the needle.

Blake griffin doesn't do that... Who I would actually take but not for what it would take.

There's really only marginal help available. We're stuck drafting and grooming young guys. Yay...

Yup. None of them will have any trade value until they develop to the point where they give you consistency. So it's either that or move Tatum, Jaylen or Smart - those are basically the options.

Reading these comments has me wondering how many legitimate options the team has in terms of improving, and I'm no cap guru, so maybe you guys (or others here) can help me out.

Are you saying that, over the next season or two, internal development is the only significant means Boston has of improving (other than the TPE)? In other words, will the Cs not have significant cap space again until quite a while from now, like maybe after Kemba's contract is up?

[GreenWarrior]

Sadly I'm only using that exception unless it actually makes us a better team, like moves the needle.

Blake griffin doesn't do that... Who I would actually take but not for what it would take.

There's really only marginal help available. We're stuck drafting and grooming young guys. Yay...

Yup. None of them will have any trade value until they develop to the point where they give you consistency. So it's either that or move Tatum, Jaylen or Smart - those are basically the options.

Reading these comments has me wondering how many legitimate options the team has in terms of improving, and I'm no cap guru, so maybe you guys (or others here) can help me out.

Are you saying that, over the next season or two, internal development is the only significant means Boston has of improving (other than the TPE)? In other words, will the Cs not have significant cap space again until quite a while from now, like maybe after Kemba's contract is up?

I'm saying even with the TPE the only way this team improves is if romeo langford becomes michael jordan, robert williams becomes bill russell and carson edwards becomes Steph curry.

But we can't trade semi ojeleye... That'll mess up the chemistry.

[hodgy03038]

I heard a soundbite today where Danny is saying he's getting heat for the team needing help via trade and he was saying it can't happen "NOW" because it's too early and we need to wait until closer to the deadline to see who is in it and who is out of it.

Guess what Danny? If you wait until the trade deadline YOU MAY BE OUT OF IT so your logic is ridiculous.

[GreenWarrior]

Who cares, this team will get bounced in the 1st.

[Jiri Welsch]

I heard a soundbite today where Danny is saying he's getting heat for the team needing help via trade and he was saying it can't happen "NOW" because it's too early and we need to wait until closer to the deadline to see who is in it and who is out of it.

Guess what Danny? If you wait until the trade deadline YOU MAY BE OUT OF IT so your logic is ridiculous.

I mean, they’re going to make the playoffs and play in empty or half-filled arenas where the homecourt advantage will be minimal. His logic isn’t really ridiculous.

[GreenlyGreeny]

I’ve waited patiently for a dozen years...how much longer must we wait?

I’m with GreenWarrior. We need to stop being in denial about the disaster Danny has delivered. We need to keep in mind that Rondo has twice as many titles in the 21st century as Danny, so Buford is elite and Danny is not. He’s headed towards being a one-title-and-done GM who got lucky with the KG and Ray trades...

Danny made too many recent mistakes along the way, which is why Kyrie, Horford and Hayward walked without us getting anything other than a TPE for Hayward, which may or may not make a difference. Ever since we plummeted from 8-3, basically when Kemba got back (which is why on days we lose back-to-back I want him gone for any veteran(s) available), I’ve racked my brain trying to think of a way to improve this team. The options are very limited and it’s not going to be easy. There are few avenues and no guarantee that the moves will get us a title, let alone a dynasty. It’s a good thing we have the Hayward TPE, but do you know what would be better? Having Hayward’s 22.3 PPG/5.5 RPG/3.8 APG and solid defense. Why in the world we did not throw a max at him is beyond me. How Stevens’ golden boy felt the need to leave is surely something to do with Danny’s management of the whole situation...

In any case, we are now faced with hoping that Collins, Barnes or Vucevic is available for a reasonable price and will be pleased and productive as our third option (and the latter two are 30ish, so scant chance of a dynasty with them). Even when GSW dominated, Barnes was the fourth option behind Green. That is a huge drop from the days of acquiring prime Horford, prime Hayward and prime Kyrie. Keep in mind that one of a GM’s primary responsibilities is keeping our players pleased in a league with perhaps the strongest sports union in the history of the world (this league is now ruled by players, not GMs who think they’re big shots who can bully injured players into playing such that their career becomes jeopardized, and then trade them after they’ve been manipulated/used). What’s done is done, of course, but if we had merely kept Kyrie and Hayward pleased, we would not be in this situation. Instead, we’d be a loaded roster with Kyrie, Tatum, Brown, Hayward and Smart leading the way. We would be on our way to a Lakers V. Celtics NBA Finals with the epic narrative of LeBron versus his Cleveland brother Kyrie.

Alas, the only way to have a chance of a dynasty now:

- Do what it takes to bring in Collins and hope that Tatum, Brown, and Collins become two-way all-NBAers. It’s difficult to see all three pulling it off, but that’s what we need to create a dynasty here (or Collins becomes an offensive all-star and both Tatum and Brown become HOFers)...

Or...

- Before Tatum and Brown hit the end of their current contract, draft so well in the teens and twenties that we somehow find an all-star like John Stockton (16th overall), Dennis Rodman (27th overall), Tony Parker (28th overall) or DJ (29th overall)...maybe we’ve already done this with Pritchard, I certainly like to delude myself into thinking so, but only time will tell...

Related note:

Forget about second rounders, which are the most overrated thing on this forum (with the exception of Danny, of course, but I can understand that one being a Danny ditto as recently as 2018). The all-time best player drafted in the second round is George Gervin (40th overall), and the all-time best big is Nikola Jokic (41st overall). There are literally hundreds of nobodies and only one Gervin and one Jokic, so to try to win a prize in the second round, particularly in the bottom 2/3rds of the second, is utterly foolish. We need to trade with sucker (or cheap) teams that overvalue these picks by getting solid rotational players/aging vets for them because we’re not going to have free agency as an option given our cap situation (not to mention the reputation of Danny).

There’s hope, but this a world apart from when we had Kyrie, Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Horford and hoped to add AD or Kawhi...

I’ve waited patiently for a dozen years...how much longer must we wait?

[tarheelsxxiii]

https://twitter.com/Toucherandrich/status/1362405762052595720

Danny Ainge just told us that he thinks the Celtics as constituted right now are not good enough to win a championship. #Celtics

Really ?  When did this dawn on him ?

He's failed to get us a legitimate Center for nearly a decade.  At this point, I think the players should be complaining to the media about management, not vice versa.

TP, this made me laugh and sadly I can’t say I totally disagree.

#TPtar

[Jvalin]

I heard a soundbite today where Danny is saying he's getting heat for the team needing help via trade and he was saying it can't happen "NOW" because it's too early and we need to wait until closer to the deadline to see who is in it and who is out of it.

Guess what Danny? If you wait until the trade deadline YOU MAY BE OUT OF IT so your logic is ridiculous.

His logic is perfectly sound. Most deals happen at the trade deadline for a reason. Teams are unwilling to lower their asking price prior to the deadline unless they are desperate to make a trade. It's when they run out of time at the deadline that they finally compromise regarding their asking price. To put it another way, trade negotiations are like the game of chicken. Whomever backs down first loses the game. If we make a deal right now, we'll probably get fleeced. At the very least, chances are we'll get a better deal at the deadline.