Danny on T&R: We're Not Good Enough

[Ogaju]

As of right now, I don't think that's groundbreaking stuff or anything.  It's pretty apparent.

What is groundbreaking is that a GM actually said out loud what is obviously true.  I give Danny credit for that.

but the experts said......

[Ogaju]

In the entire history of the league there have been something like 3 champions that didn't have a top 5 player on them.  Those are the last Spurs title, the last Pistons title, and the Sonics/Thunder's only title.  That's basically it.  The Spurs had 4 HOFers at varying career points (TD old, Manu old, Parker in prime, Leonard on rise), the Pistons were incredibly deep with 4 or 5 All Star level players including the 3rd best defensive big/rebounder of all time (only Russell and Rodman eclipse Wallace in those), and the Sonics had 2 HOFers the rise (Sikma, DJ), a multiple time future All Star (Williams), veteran depth, and won in basically the weakest season in the sports history (you know right before Bird and Magic entered the league).

Boston doesn't have a top 5 player.  Boston doesn't even have a top 10 player.  Boston has 2 All Star (and possibly All NBA) players, a clearly injury hampered former All Star, and basically nothing else.  This idea permeating this board that this team was going to compete for a title this year was just strange to me.  There is a reason so few teams win titles without top 5 players.  There is a reason teams without top 5 players rarely compete for titles for more than an odd season or two.  In basketball, you quite simply, need a top 5 player to really and truly compete for a title.  If you don't have a top 5 player, then you aren't really going to compete year in and year out.  It just doesn't happen.

It was not about championships. It was whether the team was top 5 in talent in the East going into the season and some would not agree that it was not.

[CelticSooner]

Ainge waited too long to take a risk. The minute Hayward walked the roster was in big trouble. Young players don’t win rings.

[nickagneta]

Get everyone healthy. Re-establish the chemistry of last year's playoff starting five that was so successful. Put others into their defined roles. Establish a set rotation with set 5 man groupings for consistency. Start to give better effort, in order to get better performance on the defensive side of the ball. Hope like hell that the youth develop quickly.

Do all that for the next month plus, until the deadline, then, if a trade(s) comes up that makes sense, make it(them).

Problem is BS and the players arent capable of most of that.

Kemba isn't getting healthier. Chemistry was good enough last year. BS loves to tinker with rotations for data. They don't have 10 total players to go to two units.  Effort isn't there because BS doesn't reward good play or punish bad play, BS picks favorites to play.The youth can't develop without practice and playing time which they aren't getting enough of either one.

Agree with nothing you wrote there except the youth will not develop as much due to lack of practice. I think some of the youth are getting plenty of playing time due to injuries and missed games. Probably too much, in some cases.

[slamtheking]

Get everyone healthy. Re-establish the chemistry of last year's playoff starting five that was so successful. Put others into their defined roles. Establish a set rotation with set 5 man groupings for consistency. Start to give better effort, in order to get better performance on the defensive side of the ball. Hope like hell that the youth develop quickly.

Do all that for the next month plus, until the deadline, then, if a trade(s) comes up that makes sense, make it(them).

Problem is BS and the players arent capable of most of that.

Kemba isn't getting healthier. Chemistry was good enough last year. BS loves to tinker with rotations for data. They don't have 10 total players to go to two units.  Effort isn't there because BS doesn't reward good play or punish bad play, BS picks favorites to play.The youth can't develop without practice and playing time which they aren't getting enough of either one.

Agree with nothing you wrote there except the youth will not develop as much due to lack of practice. I think some of the youth are getting plenty of playing time due to injuries and missed games. Probably too much, in some cases.

agreed.  health will be the primary driver of how much the team improves over its current level of play.

I think Danny realizes that and that's playing a part in his reluctance to make trades that send out young players as trade chips without seeing what they can do with a real offseason of coaching and training camp. 

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

It's only February 18 and we are a .500 team. We can't string 2 wins together against bad teams much less the good ones. I don't know what the delay is because if Danny is waiting until the March 25th trade deadline then it will probably be way too late for anyone to help this year.

I don’t know if there’s a thing out there that’ll get us over the top this year. Help, maybe. But I don’t want help this year if it’s going to prevent greatness next year. I’m sure that’s not your point either... just sayin this ain’t the year for banner 18, in all likelihood. Whatever help is out there will need to be in service of making this team a proper contender in a year or two when we can develop our young bench or otherwise shore it up.

Sadly, I think you are right about this not being their year, and that it might still take a couple of years before they are a really good, legitimately contending team.

I don't blame Danny for not giving Hayward all that money—I think Danny did the right thing there—but I think that maybe Danny wasn't expecting/prepared for Hayward's departure. I mean, I think it's ridiculous that Charlotte offered so much money to a guy who had been injured so much the last 3 seasons, but it's their money to spend, and I don't think Danny saw that coming. Thus he had no Plan B. I think Thompson and Teague seemed like good deals at the time, though maybe semidesperate panic moves on Danny's part, but those two could still contribute something before the season's over.

Regardless, I think this season has so far been a step back for the team; that could change, but it very well might not. I like the idea of adding Harrison Barnes with the TPE, but none of the other options that have been proposed excite me. And adding Barnes may not move the needle a whole lot this season anyway. Besides, I don't want to get my hopes up for "fireworks" that don't happen; I've been down that road too many times.

All of the injuries haven't helped, but anyone who's been a Celtics fan since 2009 should know that "hospital Celtics" is a real and regular thing, and should be expecting lots of injuries. I mean, I'm fully expecting another key player to get injured within a few weeks of Smart's return, if not sooner. Pessimistic? Maybe. But definitely reasonable to expect with this group.

TL;DR ... Danny was caught off-guard by Charlotte's massive offer to Hayward and didn't have a Plan B, and (as I see it) he seems content for this season to be yet another developmental/bridge year, like he's waiting to see if any of Rob/Grant/Pritchard/Nesmith/Romeo/Ojeleye/Edwards/Green/Waters can become a solid rotational piece over the next season or two, and maybe then he'll make a big push for a title team built around the Jays (as long as they're still happy here).

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I completely agree with Ainge that the best way to improve this team is to get better from the inside out.

Get everyone healthy. Re-establish the chemistry of last year's playoff starting five that was so successful. Put others into their defined roles. Establish a set rotation with set 5 man groupings for consistency. Start to give better effort, in order to get better performance on the defensive side of the ball. Hope like hell that the youth develop quickly.

Do all that for the next month plus, until the deadline, then, if a trade(s) comes up that makes sense, make it(them).

A great idea in theory, nick, but I'm not sure it's possible with this group. I really mean that. The Celtics have had tons of bad injury luck since KG got hurt in 2009. All teams deal with injuries, but they don't all have them to the same degree, and Boston has been absolutely snakebit since '09.

[86MaxwellSmart]

I completely agree with Ainge that the best way to improve this team is to get better from the inside out.

Get everyone healthy. Re-establish the chemistry of last year's playoff starting five that was so successful. Put others into their defined roles. Establish a set rotation with set 5 man groupings for consistency. Start to give better effort, in order to get better performance on the defensive side of the ball. Hope like hell that the youth develop quickly.

Do all that for the next month plus, until the deadline, then, if a trade(s) comes up that makes sense, make it(them).

A great idea in theory, nick, but I'm not sure it's possible with this group. I really mean that. The Celtics have had tons of bad injury luck since KG got hurt in 2009. All teams deal with injuries, but they don't all have them to the same degree, and Boston has been absolutely snakebit since '09.

Cause we fired the original mascot "Lucky"...12 days later KG hurt his knee---you don't fire people named "Lucky"

[Phantom255x]

We're not good enough to beat Milwaukee, Philly or Brooklyn in a playoff series. We may win a first round series against a favorable opponent, but then get handily beaten in 4 or 5 to any of PHI/BKN/MIL.

[Donoghus]

I completely agree with Ainge that the best way to improve this team is to get better from the inside out.

Get everyone healthy. Re-establish the chemistry of last year's playoff starting five that was so successful. Put others into their defined roles. Establish a set rotation with set 5 man groupings for consistency. Start to give better effort, in order to get better performance on the defensive side of the ball. Hope like hell that the youth develop quickly.

Do all that for the next month plus, until the deadline, then, if a trade(s) comes up that makes sense, make it(them).

A great idea in theory, nick, but I'm not sure it's possible with this group. I really mean that. The Celtics have had tons of bad injury luck since KG got hurt in 2009. All teams deal with injuries, but they don't all have them to the same degree, and Boston has been absolutely snakebit since '09.

Cause we fired the original mascot "Lucky"...12 days later KG hurt his knee---you don't fire people named "Lucky"

From what I remember, that guy was letting his "success" go to his head and he was making some ridiculous demands from the organization so they just said the heck with that. 

[liam]

Ainge waited too long to take a risk. The minute Hayward walked the roster was in big trouble. Young players don’t win rings.

Danny keeps doing nothing and complains the team isn't ready. Put the pieces around your two young stars and go for it. That's what Philly is doing.

[hpantazo]

Ainge waited too long to take a risk. The minute Hayward walked the roster was in big trouble. Young players don’t win rings.

Danny keeps doing nothing and complains the team isn't ready. Put the pieces around your two young stars and go for it. That's what Philly is doing.

We’ve been missing 2-3 starters almost every game this season. We were missing 3 starters last night in Kemba, Smart and Theis. Tatum and Brown also missed time already this season. What exactly do people expect? It’s not a matter of adding a few vets off the bench. It’s getting our core guys all together and giving them time to practice and play together. These guys have barely practiced with Thompson, Teague , Pritchard, Nesmith and Langford. The short training camp and preseason didn’t help either.

I think Stevens’ teams also rely much more on practice time than most teams

[Phantom255x]

I feel like Danny is fixated on acquiring a 3rd star (like KAT) when really, all this team really needs IMO is real, legit role players to supplement Jaylen, Tatum, Kemba and Smart. Or even if Kemba isn't here long term, Jaylen/Tatum/Smart to go along with legit role players.

Problem is, almost all our role players are garbage and a handful of them wouldn't even make the roster on other teams. Pritchard, Timelord and maybe Nesmith are the only ones worth it and they are still developing.

This isn't just a "now" problem, it's been the case for many years now. The C's contend but Danny does nada at the trade deadline while other teams do. Not even for bench help, and then it costs us in a playoff series.

[Birdman]

His fault for putting this team together

[liam]

I feel like Danny is fixated on acquiring a 3rd star (like KAT) when really, all this team really needs IMO is real, legit role players to supplement Jaylen, Tatum, Kemba and Smart. Or even if Kemba isn't here long term, Jaylen/Tatum/Smart to go along with legit role players.

Problem is, almost all our role players are garbage and a handful of them wouldn't even make the roster on other teams. Pritchard, Timelord and maybe Nesmith are the only ones worth it and they are still developing.

This isn't just a "now" problem, it's been the case for many years now. The C's contend but Danny does nada at the trade deadline while other teams do. Not even for bench help, and then it costs us in a playoff series.

This is how I see it too. Every player on a contending team should be able to play. I also think that Danny should've said that he's not good enough. He put this team together.