Author Topic: How To Make A Harrison Barnes Trade Work?  (Read 31314 times)

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Re: How To Make A Harrison Barnes Trade Work?
« Reply #60 on: February 05, 2021, 02:49:59 PM »

Offline Wretch

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I think Barnes is a good fit for the team right now, but I think DA is looking at trading for a player that will be worth resigning.

John Hollinger wrote a piece in the Athletic about how veteran FAs on good teams above the cap get resigned above market value because those teams don't have cap space to sign replacement players.  He used the Morris/Clippers signing as an example.  With Tatum, Brown, Smart, Kemba on the books or probable to be resigned the C's won't have cap space to sign free agents in the near and medium term.  They will have to resign their own players to keep the team competitive.  Do you think Barnes will be worth an above market contract in 2 or 3 years at 30 or 31? I don't. 

I think Gordon is probably a better fit age and contract wise, but I am not sure how he is viewed by the Cs as a scheme/player fit.

Re: How To Make A Harrison Barnes Trade Work?
« Reply #61 on: February 05, 2021, 03:22:52 PM »

Offline colincb

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I think Barnes is a good fit for the team right now, but I think DA is looking at trading for a player that will be worth resigning.

John Hollinger wrote a piece in the Athletic about how veteran FAs on good teams above the cap get resigned above market value because those teams don't have cap space to sign replacement players.  He used the Morris/Clippers signing as an example.  With Tatum, Brown, Smart, Kemba on the books or probable to be resigned the C's won't have cap space to sign free agents in the near and medium term.  They will have to resign their own players to keep the team competitive.  Do you think Barnes will be worth an above market contract in 2 or 3 years at 30 or 31? I don't. 

I think Gordon is probably a better fit age and contract wise, but I am not sure how he is viewed by the Cs as a scheme/player fit.

Barnes is a better player and will be 30 when his contract is up in 2023, not 31. There's no reason to think Barnes won't be re-signable as he's been very durable (unlike Gordon). Plays both forward positions whereas Gordon has been primarily a PF, so he's more versatile too.

Re: How To Make A Harrison Barnes Trade Work?
« Reply #62 on: February 05, 2021, 03:59:16 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Let’s say Sactown asks for Smart as part of any deal.  Is that prohibitive?

IMO yes, right now. 

My willingness to trade Smart hinges on Langford, actually.  If he returns and demonstrates the ability to be a disruptive defender with some secondary playmaking (and can stay on the court), then I would be willing to move on Smart.  But this probably happens in the offseason at the earliest.

Until then, I'm only moving Smart if it's for somebody we can project to be an important long-term piece.  Somebody like Collins would fit, if we could reach an understanding with him on role and contract terms.  I feel like Barnes falls short of that benchmark though.

I agree with a lot of this. I didn't mean to sidetrack the thread with the John Collins talk (I know there is another one out there), but I would say yes to Smart on a Collins deal, but no on Barnes. Collins just has the extra potential that Barnes doesn't while providing the ability to fill either big position and stretch the floor.

All eyes will certainly be on Langford when he returns. I don't know that he'll prove enough before the deadline to move Smart, but if we are unable to come to terms on a Smart extension this offseason and Langford is looking good, then it is very possible Smart could be moved.

Re: How To Make A Harrison Barnes Trade Work?
« Reply #63 on: February 05, 2021, 04:02:23 PM »

Offline footey

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Let’s say Sactown asks for Smart as part of any deal.  Is that prohibitive?

I would but doubt Danny would. I also think Tatum and Brown wouldn't be happy.

Re: How To Make A Harrison Barnes Trade Work?
« Reply #64 on: February 05, 2021, 04:20:30 PM »

Offline Rikibellevie

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Like many I also think he would be the perfect fit to give us a chance today without giving to much about our future. But to make it happen, Sacto have to lose a lot in the next month, as they are now at one match of th playin tournament and only two matches behind the 4th place. They are such a desperatly bad team who rarely goes to PO, that they won't downgrade their team to tank if they have a chance to compete this year (for a 20-25th pick and an average young like Grant or Romeo). And the play in tournament cmay be a real objectiv for them. So unfortunately I think, this trade seem doable but won't really be it.
If we have to give Smart I wouldn't do it at all, we still need more an all defensive gard in PO than a 4th offensive option. If we have at one time to give Smart it will be in a package for a better player.

Re: How To Make A Harrison Barnes Trade Work?
« Reply #65 on: February 05, 2021, 04:23:51 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Speaking of Nesmith and a 1st as the principle of a deal. Would it make more sense to offer that to ATL and see if they bite on a Collins trade? I guess it really depends if they intend on matching any contract offer in RFA, but doing that would actually allow the Cs to keep the entire TPE for this offseason.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Barnes here, but it would pretty much require shedding Thompson in order to do stay under the tax (a pre-requisite as far as I'm concerned). I also consider Collins the best player reasonably available with potential to grow into an All-Star.
I think Boston is going to have to give up Smart as a base for a Collins trade. 

But just for fun, why not both Barnes and Collins (no TPE required)

Boston - Barnes, Collins
Atlanta - Smart, Langford, Edwards, Whiteside, BOS 21 1st, BOS 23 1st (lotto)
Sacramento - Snell, Nesmith, Huerter

Boston post-trade with 2 open roster spots (need a bench SG at least in buy out market or using TPE)
Starters - Walker, Brown, Tatum, Barnes, Collins
Main Rotation - Teague/Pritchard, G. Williams/Ojeleye, R. Williams, Theis, Thompson
Deep Bench - Green, Waters, Fall

Now that is a team that I think could do some real damage in the post-season and it adds only 4.3 million in salary so avoiding the tax while keeping the entire TPE in tact.

SAC says no.

That's a great move for SAC. They get younger, and Huerter is a really good replacement for Barnes.

Barnes is a much better player than Huerter and he's only 28.

https://stathead.com/tiny/uvg5u

TS% of  64% vs 53%, PER 17.2 vs 12.1.
Barnes makes 60 million or so over the next 3 years and will be 31 when his contract ends.  The Kings aren't very good and getting 2 young players still on their rookie contracts and an expiring contract from a decent veteran is in fact a good trade for them.  Saves them a ton of money and they could still use Snell in a trade if they wanted to help a team do a salary dump for other assets.

Except they haven't got a payroll problem at all, and if they want to shed salary, Parker and Bjelica cost just under $14M and are in their final contract year. Cory Joseph makes $12.6M through next year and they don't need him either. Get rid of them and the money is in all the right places.

Harrison Barnes is a mature guy who isn't a bargain, but mostly earns his money. If they had a young star behind him, I could see it but they've got no one who qualifies as a larger wing and until they can convince someone better to play there it makes no sense to go backwards just to have the lowest payroll in the league. They need a considerably better reason than just salary.

The real issue is whether they want to keep Buddy Hield, who makes $2M more than Barnes. Halliburton is going to be a better player. Neither guy is strong enough to be a full time small forward. They would be better off getting rid of Hield.
Trading expiring contracts doesn't do anything for long term flexibility or financial situations.  Barnes and Hield are big drains on their future cap and flexibility and also just aren't good enough to be kept.  They don't have to move either now and can wait till the summer, but I'm not sure the value increases for either in the summer so if the right trade comes along, I think they'd do it.  And I do believe Huerter and Nesmith would be a good package for Barnes and one they would do. 

Barnes isn't overpaid, but he just doesn't move the needle for a an average, at the absolute best, team. 

Atlanta is the team I'm not sure does the trade, but getting Smart, Langford, and two 1st's for Collins and Huerter seems like solid value, so I think they'd at least consider it
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Re: How To Make A Harrison Barnes Trade Work?
« Reply #66 on: February 05, 2021, 05:55:15 PM »

Online Roy H.

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On a side note:  is Barnes really that “overpaid”?

https://hoopshype.com/salaries/players/


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Re: How To Make A Harrison Barnes Trade Work?
« Reply #67 on: February 05, 2021, 08:09:59 PM »

Offline todd_days_41

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No sure if this has been raised yet, but why would the Kings trade Barnes? They’ve won 5 of 6. He’s an excellent fit at the 4 with Fox, Halliburton and Hield at 1-3.

Are folks just hoping “their the kings” will result in a dumb move?

Re: How To Make A Harrison Barnes Trade Work?
« Reply #68 on: February 06, 2021, 11:42:38 AM »

Offline footey

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SAC guy on CelticsBlog podcast thought Nesmith, or Nesmith plus first, would be enough to get Barnes. I'm skeptical, but would sign up for that for sure.

Re: How To Make A Harrison Barnes Trade Work?
« Reply #69 on: February 06, 2021, 11:54:20 AM »

Offline Moranis

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SAC guy on CelticsBlog podcast thought Nesmith, or Nesmith plus first, would be enough to get Barnes. I'm skeptical, but would sign up for that for sure.
Barnes does nothing for Sacramento really.  He is a 4th option on a great team type player and for Sacto he is their #2 player.  The salary savings would be a huge benefit.  it is why I think my Collins and Barnes trade is a real possibility as I do think it makes sense for all 3 teams. 
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Re: How To Make A Harrison Barnes Trade Work?
« Reply #70 on: February 06, 2021, 12:09:12 PM »

Online Phantom255x

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Speaking of Nesmith and a 1st as the principle of a deal. Would it make more sense to offer that to ATL and see if they bite on a Collins trade? I guess it really depends if they intend on matching any contract offer in RFA, but doing that would actually allow the Cs to keep the entire TPE for this offseason.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Barnes here, but it would pretty much require shedding Thompson in order to do stay under the tax (a pre-requisite as far as I'm concerned). I also consider Collins the best player reasonably available with potential to grow into an All-Star.
I think Boston is going to have to give up Smart as a base for a Collins trade. 

But just for fun, why not both Barnes and Collins (no TPE required)

Boston - Barnes, Collins
Atlanta - Smart, Langford, Edwards, Whiteside, BOS 21 1st, BOS 23 1st (lotto)
Sacramento - Snell, Nesmith, Huerter

Boston post-trade with 2 open roster spots (need a bench SG at least in buy out market or using TPE)
Starters - Walker, Brown, Tatum, Barnes, Collins
Main Rotation - Teague/Pritchard, G. Williams/Ojeleye, R. Williams, Theis, Thompson
Deep Bench - Green, Waters, Fall

Now that is a team that I think could do some real damage in the post-season and it adds only 4.3 million in salary so avoiding the tax while keeping the entire TPE in tact.

Love the idea. But I don't think ATL moves Collins,  and I doubt Boston wants to move Smart too lol.

I mean the fact that Smart's still here after all that's transpired probably shows you how much he means to Ainge and the C's (also based on Smart's contract in today's NBA).

I think a Barnes trade though can be really straightforward. Due to his salary I doubt he'd be in high demand around the league, and so the C's can offer something like 1 of Langford/Nesmith + a future unprotected 1st rounder 
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Re: How To Make A Harrison Barnes Trade Work?
« Reply #71 on: February 06, 2021, 12:28:19 PM »

Offline footey

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I don't think we need Collins.  I like focusing on Barnes. 

Here is a great video about him growing up. His Mom was a huge Michael Jordan fan, and got him hooked on hooping at an early age. He is absolutely beloved in his hometown of Ames, Iowa. Man, I hope we can get this guy. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5tQxwkdoxw


Re: How To Make A Harrison Barnes Trade Work?
« Reply #72 on: February 06, 2021, 12:39:43 PM »

Offline NKY fan

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Easy pass for me if he costs more than Grant and a second rounder . Maybe a first rounder is my max.
I don’t see what he brings that we haven’t tried in the past.
We had Marcus Morris in the past and beside a couple nice games in one playoff run he was more of a distraction and stunting The Js development.
I’m not saying Barnes will have the Morii effect but chances are he won’t add anything more than what Tatum, Brown provide.
Barnes sees himself as a definite starter and he will demand minutes and touches. l don’t see him happy getting inconsistent 15-25 minutes a night in brads game flow management.

Re: How To Make A Harrison Barnes Trade Work?
« Reply #73 on: February 06, 2021, 12:55:26 PM »

Offline footey

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Easy pass for me if he costs more than Grant and a second rounder . Maybe a first rounder is my max.
I don’t see what he brings that we haven’t tried in the past.
We had Marcus Morris in the past and beside a couple nice games in one playoff run he was more of a distraction and stunting The Js development.
I’m not saying Barnes will have the Morii effect but chances are he won’t add anything more than what Tatum, Brown provide.
Barnes sees himself as a definite starter and he will demand minutes and touches. l don’t see him happy getting inconsistent 15-25 minutes a night in brads game flow management.

I see him more as a Gordon Hayward replacement, but slightly younger, and more content playing 3rd fiddle to the two Js.  I don't think Morris is a good comparison.  Barnes has better ball skills than Morris.  Barnes is probably not as good a play maker as Gordon, but he is more athletic, and less injury prone.  You wouldn't give up Nesmith and a 1st for him? I think Nesmith has a future, but  you have to give to get.

Re: How To Make A Harrison Barnes Trade Work?
« Reply #74 on: February 06, 2021, 12:57:30 PM »

Offline NKY fan

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Easy pass for me if he costs more than Grant and a second rounder . Maybe a first rounder is my max.
I don’t see what he brings that we haven’t tried in the past.
We had Marcus Morris in the past and beside a couple nice games in one playoff run he was more of a distraction and stunting The Js development.
I’m not saying Barnes will have the Morii effect but chances are he won’t add anything more than what Tatum, Brown provide.
Barnes sees himself as a definite starter and he will demand minutes and touches. l don’t see him happy getting inconsistent 15-25 minutes a night in brads game flow management.

I see him more as a Gordon Hayward replacement, but slightly younger, and more content playing 3rd fiddle to the two Js.  I don't think Morris is a good comparison.  Barnes has better ball skills than Morris.  Barnes is probably not as good a play maker as Gordon, but he is more athletic, and less injury prone.  You wouldn't give up Nesmith and a 1st for him? I think Nesmith has a future, but  you have to give to get.
He is worth Nesmith and a first (likely even more) but we don’t really need Barnes. That’s my point. But if he costs less than that I don’t see trader Danny passing on Barnes lol