How To Make A Harrison Barnes Trade Work?

[Roy H.]

The luxury tax calculation is more than just team salaries

How do you mean?

Luxury tax is determined by actual payroll.  That includes incentives, bonuses, etc.  However, I don’t believe there is anything other than salary included.

Also, keep in mind that Hoopshype, Sportrac, Keith Smith, etc., are all using estimates.

[Jvalin]

Imo, Barnes is overpaid. If the Kings wanted to dump him, they'd probably have to attach a minor pick to get the job done. If another team wants to trade for him, I guess the Kings can get a minor asset in return. The way I see it, our 2021 first rounder + the TPE may be enough. Problem is, we'd have to dump some salary first cause we are hard capped at the apron. Assuming we want to stay below the tax line, we'd have to dump about 6.5 million in salary. I'm also assuming we'd cut Green whose contract is non-guaranteed till February 27.

[jambr380]

Imo, Barnes is overpaid. If the Kings wanted to dump him, they'd probably have to attach a minor pick to get the job done. If another team wants to trade for him, I guess the Kings can get a minor asset in return. The way I see it, our 2021 first rounder + the TPE may be enough. Problem is, we'd have to dump some salary first cause we are hard capped at the apron. Assuming we want to stay below the tax line, we'd have to dump about 6.5 million in salary. I'm also assuming we'd cut Green whose contract is non-guaranteed till February 27.

I think SAC is in a position of power here, so I definitely don't think they're giving up anything in order to rid themselves of Barnes. He is a bit overpaid, but he is producing well in a role a lot of top teams desire. Thompson is obviously the one to go and maybe we'd need to find a 3rd team for him, but I agree with you that it shouldn't take multiple 1sts or high end young players because of that contract.

Danny is going to play the waiting game of who is available at below market value rather than who he wants, though. It could be a guy that makes Cs fans very happy, like: Barnes, Winslow, Gordon, or Collins. Or it might just be Thad Young or PJ Tucker. With his recent comments, he seemingly will be doing something at the trade deadline, which seems necessary at this point.

[trickybilly]

The goal:  trade for Harrison Barnes while staying under the $132.627 million luxury tax.

Current Celtics salary: $118,253,678

Current Barnes salary: $22,215,909

If my math is correct, that leaves us needing to send out at least $7,842,587 in salary to fit Barnes.

What’s our best option?

The luxury tax is $132.627m, but the apron is $138.928m.

It's the apron the C's need to stay under not the tax level, right?  So that's ~$6m less you have to worry about.

-Edit, forget it, I think I misunderstood.  The goal is to stay under the tax to avoid the repeater tax.  While the C's could go up to the apron, it would be very expensive due to the repeater tax so not something they would want to do even though they could.

https://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-businessmen/ceos/wyc-grousbeck-net-worth/?amp=1

[footey]

What exactly is the Kings’ motivation to trade Barnes? Their record is similar to ours. I assume they’re trying to get better as well. To make the playoffs. Who replaces him in their starting lineup ?

[Vermont Green]

Whatever the exact numbers are, the bottom line is that we would need to clear $8M-$9M in order to bring in Barnes at $22M and stay below the tax threshold.  I don't think you can do it without hurting the team in other areas.  I think there are better options than Barnes out there that we can get and stay within the $13M to $15M range added salary, meaning we stay below the tax threshold.

Remember, you can't combine the TPE with other players.  We can't for example send them Thompson and take back Barnes unless it is separate deals somehow.  They would have to be able to absorb Thompson as a stand alone deal.  Maybe they have some of their own TPE or something, I don't know.

If we had to move $2M or $3M to bring in someone making $15M or $16M, that we can probably do in a separate deal without hurting the team much.  Moving $9M is a lot harder.

[jambr380]

Whatever the exact numbers are, the bottom line is that we would need to clear $8M-$9M in order to bring in Barnes at $22M and stay below the tax threshold.  I don't think you can do it without hurting the team in other areas.  I think there are better options than Barnes out there that we can get and stay within the $13M to $15M range added salary, meaning we stay below the tax threshold.

Remember, you can't combine the TPE with other players. We can't for example send them Thompson and take back Barnes unless it is separate deals somehow.  They would have to be able to absorb Thompson as a stand alone deal.  Maybe they have some of their own TPE or something, I don't know.

If we had to move $2M or $3M to bring in someone making $15M or $16M, that we can probably do in a separate deal without hurting the team much.  Moving $9M is a lot harder.

Actually, you can. By trading Barnes to us, they create their own sizable TPE (worth Barnes' contract amount this season) that they can easily absorb Thompson into - still giving them ~$13M in TPE to use this offseason if they so desire.

[gouki88]

What exactly is the Kings’ motivation to trade Barnes? Their record is similar to ours. I assume they’re trying to get better as well. To make the playoffs. Who replaces him in their starting lineup ?

Age profile does not fit that of their young talent, and he’s on a long deal worth significant money

[Roy H.]

Whatever the exact numbers are, the bottom line is that we would need to clear $8M-$9M in order to bring in Barnes at $22M and stay below the tax threshold.  I don't think you can do it without hurting the team in other areas.  I think there are better options than Barnes out there that we can get and stay within the $13M to $15M range added salary, meaning we stay below the tax threshold.

Remember, you can't combine the TPE with other players. We can't for example send them Thompson and take back Barnes unless it is separate deals somehow.  They would have to be able to absorb Thompson as a stand alone deal.  Maybe they have some of their own TPE or something, I don't know.

If we had to move $2M or $3M to bring in someone making $15M or $16M, that we can probably do in a separate deal without hurting the team much.  Moving $9M is a lot harder.

Actually, you can. By trading Barnes to us, they create their own sizable TPE (worth Barnes' contract amount this season) that they can easily absorb Thompson into - still giving them ~$13M in TPE to use this offseason if they so desire.

Yeah, the “can’t combine the TPE with players” rule is commonly misunderstood.  The rule is that you cannot aggregate the TPE with player salary to bring back a larger salary in the trade.

Also, something that I did not know until the Paul Pierce trade with Brooklyn: The trade can be broken down separately from each teams point of view.  It’s a weird rule, but one that is on the books.

[footey]

What exactly is the Kings’ motivation to trade Barnes? Their record is similar to ours. I assume they’re trying to get better as well. To make the playoffs. Who replaces him in their starting lineup ?

Age profile does not fit that of their young talent, and he’s on a long deal worth significant money

I didn't realize his contract went out that far. So I guess that's the argument, fair enough.

Buddy Hield is same age, and on a longer bad contract. Would think Kings which prefer to move him than Barnes, especially given how this Haliburton kid is playing for them. Seems they are destined to start Haliburton and Fox as their guards, and don't think Buddy will take kindly to that when it happens.

[td450]

What exactly is the Kings’ motivation to trade Barnes? Their record is similar to ours. I assume they’re trying to get better as well. To make the playoffs. Who replaces him in their starting lineup ?

Agree with this take.

I like Harrison Barnes as a fit too, but he's only going to become available from Sacramento by either overpaying for him, which would likely be counter productive, or, if at the trade deadline, they have another bigger target and need to shed him. He is a good fit for them, they don't have anyone else to replace him, and they won't want to just shed him. He's only slightly overpaid, and his salary steps down each year.

Right now, it might make more sense to look for good players that actually don't make sense for their teams.

[LilRip]

What exactly is the Kings’ motivation to trade Barnes? Their record is similar to ours. I assume they’re trying to get better as well. To make the playoffs. Who replaces him in their starting lineup ?

Age profile does not fit that of their young talent, and he’s on a long deal worth significant money

I didn't realize his contract went out that far. So I guess that's the argument, fair enough.

Buddy Hield is same age, and on a longer bad contract. Would think Kings which prefer to move him than Barnes, especially given how this Haliburton kid is playing for them. Seems they are destined to start Haliburton and Fox as their guards, and don't think Buddy will take kindly to that when it happens.

I think Hield would fit well with us. Tatum, in particular, draws a crowd when he touches the ball. It’s a shame we don’t have enough shooting on the floor (eg Teague, TT, Javonte, etc.) to capitalize

[wdleehi]

I think the Celtics need to look at this as two separate deals.   The Tax Bill is at the end of the season.   It doesn't matter if the Celtics spend a few weeks in tax land.

[Roy H.]

I think the Celtics need to look at this as two separate deals.   The Tax Bill is at the end of the season.   It doesn't matter if the Celtics spend a few weeks in tax land.

True, but risky.

[wdleehi]

I think the Celtics need to look at this as two separate deals.   The Tax Bill is at the end of the season.   It doesn't matter if the Celtics spend a few weeks in tax land.

True, but risky.

True.   


Of course what I really hope for is if they are going in on a player like Barnes, they worry less about the tax and more about maximizing this team.