Author Topic: Interesting - always Stevens fault went the Celtics lose  (Read 7244 times)

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Re: Interesting - always Stevens fault went the Celtics lose
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2021, 09:47:14 AM »

Offline jambr380

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I can agree with all except ''not enough talent'' in our team.

We keep losing talent year after year. In 2018, we were probably the front runners for the Title (along with GSW); then we lost Kyrie, Horford, Rozier, and Morris and only replaced them with Kemba and Kanter. This past offseason we lost Hayward and we haven't replaced him with anybody.

I get it, Tatum and Brown are getting better, but we don't even have Kemba fully reintegrated back into our line-up, never mind a replacement for Hayward. If we're being honest with ourselves, we are only a very good team right now, not a contender. That could all change if things click (look at MIA last season) or with a big trade; but, as it stands, our ceiling is definitely lower than it was the last two seasons.

I know Hayward is an All-Star level talent, but I don't think we're necessarily worse because of his absence. As long as Tatum and/or Brown are getting the ~14 shots he took per game, I think we're better off. You could make the argument that he's a much better facilitator than those two (and you'd be right)...but Smart, Brown, and Tatum are all getting better in that department. Between now and the end of the year I don't think it will matter much that we lost Hayward.

It's interesting because we have, in theory, 3 guys who are Top 30 players in the NBA. I wonder what other piece we could add that would make us a legitimate contender. Another All-Star wing? An All-Star big (which is very rare)?

Interested in what you think. It really does seem like "develop from within" is our most likely route to success.

Tatum and Brown are fantastic - I wouldn't change a thing there. First and foremost, we need Kemba to be Kemba again, and we probably need to add a Harrison Barnes type player with the TPE. I would try to dump Thompson in order to make that happen so that we can remain under the luxury tax, but understand if people think that's a little harsh. I am a believer in Theis and TL and would be fine with a FA like Dedmon eating up 3rd string C minutes.

Pritchard's development is also going to be somewhat important since Teague appears to be a total dud. I do applaud Ainge with the signings of TT and Teague - in theory they made a lot of sense in terms of need, vet presence, and production - but yikes on both of them so far.

I agree with you on the 'development from within' theory. We signed/traded for several All-Star FAs over the past few years; unfortunately, due to injuries, things didn't quite work out as planned in the short-term. Losing multiple All-Stars with nothing gained in return is always going to hurt a franchise, but Ainge's long-term plan is an amazing Plan B (and it is honestly the original Plan A after the KG/PP trade). We shouldn't necessarily judge this year's team until we see how things pan out, but we do still have a opportunity to succeed.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2021, 12:24:39 PM by jambr380 »

Re: Interesting - always Stevens fault went the Celtics lose
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2021, 12:19:49 PM »

Offline libermaniac

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Many of us complain every year. And, I get it. There are many valid complaints. But this team has managed to make the ECF 3 of the past 4 years. I realize that we are the Celtics, and the goal are rings not ECF runner ups, but we have to agree that that is a moderate degree of success. And, now the two Js are coming into their primes. I’m still optimistic about the future and Brad’s role in leading them there.

Home court advantage probably won’t matter as much this year, so Brad is working his inexperienced bench in more. I think it will pay dividends come playoff time.

Re: Interesting - always Stevens fault went the Celtics lose
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2021, 12:30:57 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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You're totally right.  When the Celts play poorly or lose a game in the last few minutes, I hear all kinds of negative things about the team, especially Brad.  When the Celts are on a winning streak?  Crickets.


My theory on this is that Brad's job is the least transparent one on the team.  Arguably, his job is less transparent than Ainge's, even.

What does Brad say to the guys in timeouts?  What does he have them doing during practice? 

How does Brad communicate to the players what things will earn them playing time and which things will get them yanked?

What does Brad talk to the guys about during film sessions?

We don't know any of that.  We just have no real idea except what the players mention in interviews, and it's hard to know how much of that is even accurate.


Then there's the stuff we can see, but that is hard to really glean or understand unless you're a huge basketball X-and-O junkie (I am not).


What are the ins and outs of Brad's offensive and defensive schemes?

What things do the players do on the court that Brad tells them to do, versus those things the players do against Brad's instructions and game plan?



When it comes to players, we can see what they do on the court.  We see how they respond emotionally to diversity.  We see the decisions they make (or fail to make) in crunch time. 

With the GM, we know the trades he makes.  We know who he signs in free agency.  We don't know about the trades that don't go through or all the free agents that don't sign.  But we know more.



What compounds all of this is that Brad has a philosophy of remaining mostly calm and blank in public.  He doesn't say very much, and he maintains an even keeled composure.  You don't see him gesticulating, yelling, stamping his feet on the sidelines.  After games, he doesn't tear into his players.  He doesn't even tear into the refs. He doesn't give us much to go on as far as his emotional state, let alone his mental state.


All of that can be unsatisfying for fans who want something to latch onto with the coach.  When the Celts no-show a game, or when a player takes a bad shot in crunch time, or the refs blow a huge call, people want to see Brad losing it. They want accountability.  They want consequences.

Brad isn't Bobby Knight.  For a certain kind of fan, that's a problem. 


So in light of all of that, when things go wrong and there's not an obvious person to blame for a specific mistake or issue, Brad is an easy fall guy.


Why isn't the team playing well?  The coach must not be motivating them.  Why are the guys taking shots that I don't like?  Must be the coach failing to discipline them.  Why isn't the guy I like playing more?  Must be because Brad refuses to give him playing time (as opposed to that player failing to do certain things behind the scenes).


Personally, I like Brad's demeanor.  I don't think he's perfect.  I get frustrated at times that the offensive gameplan isn't more focused on getting the ball into the paint.  It bothers me that the team has never really been any good at generating free throws as long as Brad's been here.  I also think that Brad shoulders some of the blame for the fact that the Celts in the last couple of years have arguably underperformed their talent level somewhat in terms of late game execution.

At the same time, when the team just generally seems to be playing poorly, losing focus, or failing to play in a cohesive way, I don't blame Brad just because I can't point to a specific player who is responsible.  I just feel generally disappointed that the team didn't play up to their potential.  To Brad's credit, he always takes responsibility for when the team doesn't play well.
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Re: Interesting - always Stevens fault went the Celtics lose
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2021, 12:36:51 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Not sure what Brad says

But he does harp on "we have to be better" excessively. His answer to what needs to change/improve

Kyrie told the media last season he was tired of hearing it lol

Re: Interesting - always Stevens fault went the Celtics lose
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2021, 02:03:22 PM »

Offline cltc5

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So is it we have good talent and no coaching or good coaching and no talent?

Re: Interesting - always Stevens fault went the Celtics lose
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2021, 02:25:09 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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So is it we have good talent and no coaching or good coaching and no talent?
Or good coaching and good talent but some messed up circumstances that have led to the current 10-7 record not being as good as it could be.

Kemba missed 11 games. Tatum 5 games. Timelord missed 4 games and was affected by Covid upon his return. A ton of road games. Three games cancelled. The practice facility being shut down.

Re: Interesting - always Stevens fault went the Celtics lose
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2021, 02:36:36 PM »

Offline cltc5

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So is it we have good talent and no coaching or good coaching and no talent?
Or good coaching and good talent but some messed up circumstances that have led to the current 10-7 record not being as good as it could be.

Kemba missed 11 games. Tatum 5 games. Timelord missed 4 games and was affected by Covid upon his return. A ton of road games. Three games cancelled. The practice facility being shut down.

Points taken, that said...
It’s basketball.  Stuff these guys have been doing for years.  It’s more than just a change in routines/schedules/missing players, etc.  we had everyone back for SA and still made the same missteps with the same results.  Round and round we go.  Is global warming the next excuse we’re gonna use.

Re: Interesting - always Stevens fault went the Celtics lose
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2021, 03:28:14 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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So is it we have good talent and no coaching or good coaching and no talent?
Or good coaching and good talent but some messed up circumstances that have led to the current 10-7 record not being as good as it could be.

Kemba missed 11 games. Tatum 5 games. Timelord missed 4 games and was affected by Covid upon his return. A ton of road games. Three games cancelled. The practice facility being shut down.

Points taken, that said...
It’s basketball.  Stuff these guys have been doing for years.  It’s more than just a change in routines/schedules/missing players, etc.  we had everyone back for SA and still made the same missteps with the same results.  Round and round we go.  Is global warming the next excuse we’re gonna use.
So you are saying we should determine a 10-7 record is indicative of the team going forward because we saw some the team lose one game to a decent team on the road? Really?

The team had a terrible last 4 1/2 minutes in the first half of that SA game which was why the team lost, and which, in your opinion, means the team will be like that all year because we either have bad talent or bad coaching but you can't decide which.

Hard to take you seriously with that opinion but, it does fall in place with your usual, over the top, negative hot takes.

Re: Interesting - always Stevens fault went the Celtics lose
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2021, 11:14:40 PM »

Offline cltc5

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So is it we have good talent and no coaching or good coaching and no talent?
Or good coaching and good talent but some messed up circumstances that have led to the current 10-7 record not being as good as it could be.

Kemba missed 11 games. Tatum 5 games. Timelord missed 4 games and was affected by Covid upon his return. A ton of road games. Three games cancelled. The practice facility being shut down.

Points taken, that said...
It’s basketball.  Stuff these guys have been doing for years.  It’s more than just a change in routines/schedules/missing players, etc.  we had everyone back for SA and still made the same missteps with the same results.  Round and round we go.  Is global warming the next excuse we’re gonna use.
So you are saying we should determine a 10-7 record is indicative of the team going forward because we saw some the team lose one game to a decent team on the road? Really?

The team had a terrible last 4 1/2 minutes in the first half of that SA game which was why the team lost, and which, in your opinion, means the team will be like that all year because we either have bad talent or bad coaching but you can't decide which.

Hard to take you seriously with that opinion but, it does fall in place with your usual, over the top, negative hot takes.
Nice to see you take the high road and throw in some digs.  Typical of someone that’s uncomfortable with reality.  This is not an assessment of this years team, it’s a characteristic of the last 5 years...it’s always an issue with talent or always an issue with coaching.  This has become a team that can’t seem to get out of its own way.  For the record I’ll lean more towards coaching because I think the talent has been there.

Re: Interesting - always Stevens fault went the Celtics lose
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2021, 02:17:55 AM »

Offline SparzWizard

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Not sure what Brad says

But he does harp on "we have to be better" excessively. His answer to what needs to change/improve

Kyrie told the media last season he was tired of hearing it lol

I'm tired of hearing it too lol


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Re: Interesting - always Stevens fault went the Celtics lose
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2021, 07:55:10 PM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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I'm pretty sure I can go on record as seeing a problem with stevens weather we're winning or losing. Which was swiftly met with "we're winning and you're complaining?!?!?"

There is a thing known as fool's gold and it's my belief that stevens' offensive philosophy is everything wrong with this team.

This is a "take n make" league correct? Well the reg.season and playoffs are 2 different animals. There's just some things that don't carry over to the playoffs.

I've been watching nba basketball for over 30 yrs. and just simple experience has shown me this style rarely wins.

 We take too many jump shots, we take too many difficult jump shots, we pass up easy 2's for difficult 3's. If it's the players then the coach should set them straight, if it's the coach encouraging bad shots then he needs to go.

Everybody wants to be He Golden State, the biggest misconception when it comes to their style is that they just chuck 3's. Nope they get easy 2's so that it opens up they're 3pt shooting. Plus thompson and curry we're other worldly.... Not many teams have a thompson and curry, we have neither.

So in my experience if you take bad shots, regardless of how talented the player(s) eventually it catches up with you.

And that's what happens to this team and it's what has gotten this team eliminated every season - team goes on and we respond with chucking shots and we're done.

I think brad is a good coach for a team on the rise with young players. He has yet to prove he can coach that nba ego.

I personally believe to be a great nba coach it's more about being able to pretty much be a psychiatrist to handle the narcissism of these elite ego's.

Perfect example, under del harris the lakers we're ready to blow up kobe and shaq, under Phil jackson they were champions - same players different coaches.

I do think we have plateaued with stevens.

Re: Interesting - always Stevens fault went the Celtics lose
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2021, 08:14:33 PM »

Offline BASS_THUMPER

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cripes, what a time for them to go cold



Welp..


blame Brad..






*sippin*


you kinda late on this....



*sippin*

Re: Interesting - always Stevens fault went the Celtics lose
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2021, 08:26:03 PM »

Offline BASS_THUMPER

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Let's not Blame Brad!!



*sippin*


Holy hell brad come on!


he is missing shots..and a few turn overs

*sippin*



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Re: Interesting - always Stevens fault went the Celtics lose
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2021, 08:35:34 PM »

Offline BASS_THUMPER

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Re: Interesting - always Stevens fault went the Celtics lose
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2021, 08:35:40 PM »

Offline LilRip

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Well, CBS does deserve his share of the blame for the Spurs loss. Rotating 10-12 guys in the first half? Sounds like a recipe for disaster.

That said, he deserves some credit too for getting the C’s back in the game. The zone was brilliant. Getting Tatum post ups was great too. In the end, it came down to one possession and the Spurs absolutely won the game. With lesser talent, they played more cohesively and Derozan came up big when he needed to (and Smart did not)
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