Harden adds Cs to preferred trade destination list

[libermaniac]

Pass. Not interested in giving up either of Smart or Brown for him, and not sure how a Kemba trade would work, or whether the optics of that are worth it.

I’d prefer exploring a trade for a Draymond, Gordon, or Barnes type with the TPE, probably in that order. I think adding Draymond could put us over the top and give us yet another defensive weapon to throw at the likes of Giannis, Durant, Simmons, Bam, etc.

I’ve never been a big Draymond fan but the more I think about it a lineup of Smart, Tatum, Brown, Draymond and Tristan would be a defensive nightmare for the other team and they would share the ball nicely on offense. TP.

[pearljammer10]

I’m sure Houston has zero interest in Kemba, which is the only trade that makes sense.

Came here to post this as well. I'd only be interested in trading Kemba and future picks along with stuff like Langford, RW3, Edwards. Basically anyone not named Brown, Smart, Tatum, Theis, Thompson, or Teague.

Smart/Teague
Harden/Nesmith
Brown/Semi
Tatum/GWilliams
Theis/Thompson

But it won't happen like that. So. I am not interested in trading for Harden.

[jambr380]

But I only offer Kemba plus picks/youth.

Guy's got 4 years on his contract at an average of $35 million a year and a chronic bad knee.  What team would want to take that on except for one that needs Kemba to get over the top - maybe like the Celtics?

CHA just gave Hayward $30M/yr and they have absolutely zero chance of going anywhere...probably not even the playoffs. For some teams, it is about being somewhat competitive and putting star power on the floor in order to make money.

I don't like the idea of trading Kemba one year after he signed with us, but if Kemba/Smart/picks gets a deal done, then I don't know how you say no to that.

There's an alternate world where we trade Jaylen, Theis, Langford, and Edwards. We would hold on to Smart (our new SF) and Kemba, who was just starting in the A-S game last season. We lose some in the long-term, but hang on to Smart and would be at least as competitive in the short term.

[Jvalin]

For the sake of debate:

BOS trades:  Kemba, Smart, Langford, 2021, 2023, 2025 firsts

HOU trades:  Harden, Tucker, Boogie

(Boogie couldn’t be traded for a couple of more months)

Why would they want Kemba? You said it yourself: ''I’m sure Houston has zero interest in Kemba, which is the only trade that makes sense''. For the sake of debate, it would have to be a 3-way trade.

(click on images to enlarge)




Feel free to add picks and prospects.

[ozgod]

I may be the outlier here but I absolutely don't want him, for the following reasons:

• the cost is going to be high. There's no way they will not want one of the Jays, and we will probably have to throw in Smart and some picks as well. As a frame of reference AD ended up costing the Fakers Ingram, Ball and Hart and three draft picks. Fakers were willing to give all that up because they knew he was going to be a Faker for life and the poster boy after LeBum's retirement. Houston will want more than that for Harden, he's a 3x scoring champion and MVP
• ball-dominant iso-heavy divas don't really fit the Celtics system. We already had one iso heavy diva and it didn't work out too well. If we went Harden I think we would have to change our coach as well as I don't think they will be compatible
• most importantly, I think he wants to end up in Brooklyn in the players-are-coaches-team that Artist and Burner are creating, and he would probably just be a 1.5 year (or even 1 year if he doesn't get traded till the end of the year) rental for us. I think his agent is just putting out there the names of teams that have the assets to afford him. I would hate to lose Smart and Brown for a year and a half of Harden. Sure Kawhi was a 1 year rental that worked out but he only cost the Raptors DeRozan who they were going nowhere with anyway so it was low risk for them
  

Harden's a generational player, but I don't know that his heart would be set on Boston if he did get traded. I feel we would be a transit lounge for him. So he's not our generational player.

Now if they take Kemba as the centerpiece of the trade, then I'd be more willing to consider it. But they won't, so it's moot.

[SHAQATTACK]

his game doesn't fit the current makeup of the celtics .  Cbs doesn't do run and gun likecD Antoni did .  Basically let Harden run wild .   He could be such a fantastic asset if he could find a way to play real team ball

[GreenEnvy]

I may be the outlier here but I absolutely don't want him, for the following reasons:

• the cost is going to be high. There's no way they will not want one of the Jays, and we will probably have to throw in Smart and some picks as well. As a frame of reference AD ended up costing the Fakers Ingram, Ball and Hart and three draft picks. Fakers were willing to give all that up because they knew he was going to be a Faker for life and the poster boy after LeBum's retirement. Houston will want more than that for Harden, he's a 3x scoring champion and MVP
• ball-dominant iso-heavy divas don't really fit the Celtics system. We already had one iso heavy diva and it didn't work out too well. If we went Harden I think we would have to change our coach as well as I don't think they will be compatible
• most importantly, I think he wants to end up in Brooklyn in the players-are-coaches-team that Artist and Burner are creating, and he would probably just be a 1.5 year (or even 1 year if he doesn't get traded till the end of the year) rental for us. I think his agent is just putting out there the names of teams that have the assets to afford him. I would hate to lose Smart and Brown for a year and a half of Harden. Sure Kawhi was a 1 year rental that worked out but he only cost the Raptors DeRozan who they were going nowhere with anyway so it was low risk for them
  

Harden's a generational player, but I don't know that his heart would be set on Boston if he did get traded. I feel we would be a transit lounge for him. So he's not our generational player.

Now if they take Kemba as the centerpiece of the trade, then I'd be more willing to consider it. But they won't, so it's moot.

I am NOT a proponent of trading for Harden, but it’s pretty hard to plan out your departure from an elite franchise like Boston two years in the future. I don’t even think Kyrie did that. To get all the stars to align is difficult, as we all know how LeBron’s buddies want to play... in desirable cities with their friends. Maybe he could finagle something (along with inside knowledge from tampering teams), but that’s difficult to accomplish.

[Somebody]

I may be the outlier here but I absolutely don't want him, for the following reasons:

• the cost is going to be high. There's no way they will not want one of the Jays, and we will probably have to throw in Smart and some picks as well. As a frame of reference AD ended up costing the Fakers Ingram, Ball and Hart and three draft picks. Fakers were willing to give all that up because they knew he was going to be a Faker for life and the poster boy after LeBum's retirement. Houston will want more than that for Harden, he's a 3x scoring champion and MVP

• ball-dominant iso-heavy divas don't really fit the Celtics system. We already had one iso heavy diva and it didn't work out too well. If we went Harden I think we would have to change our coach as well as I don't think they will be compatible

• most importantly, I think he wants to end up in Brooklyn in the players-are-coaches-team that Artist and Burner are creating, and he would probably just be a 1.5 year (or even 1 year if he doesn't get traded till the end of the year) rental for us. I think his agent is just putting out there the names of teams that have the assets to afford him. I would hate to lose Smart and Brown for a year and a half of Harden. Sure Kawhi was a 1 year rental that worked out but he only cost the Raptors DeRozan who they were going nowhere with anyway so it was low risk for them
  

Harden's a generational player, but I don't know that his heart would be set on Boston if he did get traded. I feel we would be a transit lounge for him. So he's not our generational player.

Now if they take Kemba as the centerpiece of the trade, then I'd be more willing to consider it. But they won't, so it's moot.

What system are you watching? We're iso heavy whenever games get tight, and we have an iso heavy player on our team right now in Tatum.

[Jvalin]

I may be the outlier here but I absolutely don't want him, for the following reasons:

• the cost is going to be high. There's no way they will not want one of the Jays, and we will probably have to throw in Smart and some picks as well. As a frame of reference AD ended up costing the Fakers Ingram, Ball and Hart and three draft picks. Fakers were willing to give all that up because they knew he was going to be a Faker for life and the poster boy after LeBum's retirement. Houston will want more than that for Harden, he's a 3x scoring champion and MVP

• ball-dominant iso-heavy divas don't really fit the Celtics system. We already had one iso heavy diva and it didn't work out too well. If we went Harden I think we would have to change our coach as well as I don't think they will be compatible

• most importantly, I think he wants to end up in Brooklyn in the players-are-coaches-team that Artist and Burner are creating, and he would probably just be a 1.5 year (or even 1 year if he doesn't get traded till the end of the year) rental for us. I think his agent is just putting out there the names of teams that have the assets to afford him. I would hate to lose Smart and Brown for a year and a half of Harden. Sure Kawhi was a 1 year rental that worked out but he only cost the Raptors DeRozan who they were going nowhere with anyway so it was low risk for them
  

Harden's a generational player, but I don't know that his heart would be set on Boston if he did get traded. I feel we would be a transit lounge for him. So he's not our generational player.

Now if they take Kemba as the centerpiece of the trade, then I'd be more willing to consider it. But they won't, so it's moot.

What system are you watching? We're iso heavy whenever games get tight, and we have an iso heavy player on our team right now in Tatum.

Harden is way more ISO heavy than Tatum. Here's how Tatum scored his points during the 2019/20 regular season.

Pick and Roll ball handler: 25.5%    
ISO: 15.8%
Transition: 14%
Spot up:13.2%
Off screen: 8.9%
Handoff: 6.1%
Post up: 5.5%
Pick and Roll roll man: 2.9%
Putbacks: 2.6%
Cut: 2.5%
Miscellaneous: 3.1%

In comparison, Harden led the league last season in ISO frequency with 45%! Second on the list was Westbrook at 25% and 3rd was Austin Rivers at 22.8%. All 3 were playing for the Rockets. No other player around the league had an ISO FREQ over 18.2%.

If anything, the C's run a pick-and-roll-heavy offense. Fwiw, Harden scored 17.9% of his points out of the pick and roll last season.

[Uncle_Stingfinger]

I just think this is Hardens agent.  Ainge wont give up Brown now that he is on a good deal.

[SparzWizard]

But if you want James Harden, you'll have to deal with his immaturity. He's like a kid that likes to pout a lot when he can't get what he wants. He'll want to make the Celtics HIS team, not Tatum's team.

Though it'd be interesting if he tries to run Brad Stevens out of town lol.

[Somebody]

I may be the outlier here but I absolutely don't want him, for the following reasons:

• the cost is going to be high. There's no way they will not want one of the Jays, and we will probably have to throw in Smart and some picks as well. As a frame of reference AD ended up costing the Fakers Ingram, Ball and Hart and three draft picks. Fakers were willing to give all that up because they knew he was going to be a Faker for life and the poster boy after LeBum's retirement. Houston will want more than that for Harden, he's a 3x scoring champion and MVP

• ball-dominant iso-heavy divas don't really fit the Celtics system. We already had one iso heavy diva and it didn't work out too well. If we went Harden I think we would have to change our coach as well as I don't think they will be compatible

• most importantly, I think he wants to end up in Brooklyn in the players-are-coaches-team that Artist and Burner are creating, and he would probably just be a 1.5 year (or even 1 year if he doesn't get traded till the end of the year) rental for us. I think his agent is just putting out there the names of teams that have the assets to afford him. I would hate to lose Smart and Brown for a year and a half of Harden. Sure Kawhi was a 1 year rental that worked out but he only cost the Raptors DeRozan who they were going nowhere with anyway so it was low risk for them
  

Harden's a generational player, but I don't know that his heart would be set on Boston if he did get traded. I feel we would be a transit lounge for him. So he's not our generational player.

Now if they take Kemba as the centerpiece of the trade, then I'd be more willing to consider it. But they won't, so it's moot.

What system are you watching? We're iso heavy whenever games get tight, and we have an iso heavy player on our team right now in Tatum.

Harden is way more ISO-heavy than Tatum. Here's how Tatum scored his points during the 2019/20 regular season.

Pick and Roll ball handler: 25.5%    
ISO: 15.8%
Transition: 14%
Spot up:13.2%
Off screen: 8.9%
Handoff: 6.1%
Post up: 5.5%
Miscellaneous: 3.1%
Pick and Roll roll man: 2.9%
Putbacks: 2.6%
Cut: 2.5%

In comparison, Harden led the league in ISO frequency with 45%! Second on the list was Westbrook at 25% and 3rd was Austin Rivers at 22.5%. All 3 were playing for the Rockets. No other player around the league had an ISO FREQ over 18.2%.

If anything, the C's run a pick-and-roll-heavy offense. Fwiw, Harden scored 17.9% of his points out of the pick and roll last season.

To be fair the Rockets used to run a similar PnR heavy offence and Harden thrived in it, he would excel in our system but be actually good enough on offence to warrant the isolation possessions we're giving to Tatum when games get tight in crunch time (I get that he was great last night, but some of the shots he created were incredibly poor looks + he didn't draw FTs for easy scores).

Most of our PnRs with Tatum as the ballhandler end up as a semi-isolation possession if he couldn't find an opening created by the action to attack right away. Putting aside the anomaly that is the Rockets and accounting for how Tatum's PnRs end up in pseudo-isolations quite frequently, I stand by what I said. Still think that we should add Harden if it doesn't gut our team (only untouchable is Brown if he has truly made the leap into a fringe All-NBA calibre wing, his contract is an absolute bargain) with how reliant we are on an initiator or two to run the PnR or get us something in isolation to anchor our offence without much off-ball movement from our role players.

[Jvalin]

I may be the outlier here but I absolutely don't want him, for the following reasons:

• the cost is going to be high. There's no way they will not want one of the Jays, and we will probably have to throw in Smart and some picks as well. As a frame of reference AD ended up costing the Fakers Ingram, Ball and Hart and three draft picks. Fakers were willing to give all that up because they knew he was going to be a Faker for life and the poster boy after LeBum's retirement. Houston will want more than that for Harden, he's a 3x scoring champion and MVP

• ball-dominant iso-heavy divas don't really fit the Celtics system. We already had one iso heavy diva and it didn't work out too well. If we went Harden I think we would have to change our coach as well as I don't think they will be compatible

• most importantly, I think he wants to end up in Brooklyn in the players-are-coaches-team that Artist and Burner are creating, and he would probably just be a 1.5 year (or even 1 year if he doesn't get traded till the end of the year) rental for us. I think his agent is just putting out there the names of teams that have the assets to afford him. I would hate to lose Smart and Brown for a year and a half of Harden. Sure Kawhi was a 1 year rental that worked out but he only cost the Raptors DeRozan who they were going nowhere with anyway so it was low risk for them
  

Harden's a generational player, but I don't know that his heart would be set on Boston if he did get traded. I feel we would be a transit lounge for him. So he's not our generational player.

Now if they take Kemba as the centerpiece of the trade, then I'd be more willing to consider it. But they won't, so it's moot.

What system are you watching? We're iso heavy whenever games get tight, and we have an iso heavy player on our team right now in Tatum.

Harden is way more ISO-heavy than Tatum. Here's how Tatum scored his points during the 2019/20 regular season.

Pick and Roll ball handler: 25.5%    
ISO: 15.8%
Transition: 14%
Spot up:13.2%
Off screen: 8.9%
Handoff: 6.1%
Post up: 5.5%
Miscellaneous: 3.1%
Pick and Roll roll man: 2.9%
Putbacks: 2.6%
Cut: 2.5%

In comparison, Harden led the league in ISO frequency with 45%! Second on the list was Westbrook at 25% and 3rd was Austin Rivers at 22.5%. All 3 were playing for the Rockets. No other player around the league had an ISO FREQ over 18.2%.

If anything, the C's run a pick-and-roll-heavy offense. Fwiw, Harden scored 17.9% of his points out of the pick and roll last season.

To be fair the Rockets used to run a similar PnR heavy offence and Harden thrived in it, he would excel in our system but be actually good enough on offence to warrant the isolation possessions we're giving to Tatum when games get tight in crunch time (I get that he was great last night, but some of the shots he created were incredibly poor looks + he didn't draw FTs for easy scores).

Most of our PnRs with Tatum as the ballhandler end up as a semi-isolation possession if he couldn't find an opening created by the action to attack right away. Putting aside the anomaly that is the Rockets and accounting for how Tatum's PnRs end up in pseudo-isolations quite frequently, I stand by what I said. Still think that we should add Harden if it doesn't gut our team (only untouchable is Brown if he has truly made the leap into a fringe All-NBA calibre wing, his contract is an absolute bargain) with how reliant we are on an initiator or two to run the PnR or get us something in isolation to anchor our offence without much off-ball movement from our role players.

Some of his PnR plays look like ISO plays, but they aren't. In fact, he's coming off the ball screen (mostly set by Theis) and then he's attacking the switch.

only untouchable is Brown

I wouldn't trade Tatum for Harden. I believe we already had a similar conversation a few days ago.

The way I see it, I'd only trade for Harden if we somehow dump Kemba (probably to a 3rd team) and keep Tatum and Brown. Don't think the Rockets would do such a deal, hence I wouldn't trade for Harden.

[colincb]

- Based on my tinkering with the trade machine, there appears to be no viable two-team trade for Harden where Smart is the headliner simply because of matching salaries.

- A Kemba headlined trade for Harden is not viable either at the current time. Works in the trade machine, but HOU is not taking a 3 year, $108 MM contract on a player who will turn 31 this season and whose knees are highly questionable. It's currently a bad contract until proven otherwise.

- The only viable two-team trade has to be headlined by Brown. Don't like that trade? Fine, that's certainly a defendable position, but it's the only trade that HOU might entertain.

- If there was a BOS interest in Harden trade for Brown, I think the Cs could do better than the Hollinger trade idea (JB + Smart + three 1sts) because of leverage. Other trading partners have ruled themselves out or really don't have the ammo (BKN and POR for instance).  I don't think I'd do a deal with Brown and Smart in it anyhow because the resulting backcourt would be very poor defensively.

- A McCollum headlined trade with POR would be easy to reject. He's a high usage shooter with a TS% that ranks below the NBA median both last year (and for his career) as well as a below-average defender. Also, you also almost have to have Collins (vs Kantar) in the deal for matching salary purposes, and he played 11 games last season and has another injury this season that will keep him out for a least a month. He hasn't lived up to his draft position and his stats suck. Not a compelling package unless HOU is desperate and I don't think they're that desperate.

[Vegas Green]

Why are a lot of people selling Kemba as broken goods?  How do we know he won't come back just as good pre injury?