2021 Historical Draft: How Does My Team Look?

[gouki88]

When does voting open up?

Was going to address this today - if people want more time to potentially hammer out a final trade or whatever, that’s more than okay with me.

However, if people want voting to get going right away that’s also okay.

What date range for voting suits everyone?

[Who]

I thought it would be cool to talk about the teams for the week. Say until Friday. Then vote on Friday.

[RPGenerate]

When does voting open up?

Was going to address this today - if people want more time to potentially hammer out a final trade or whatever, that’s more than okay with me.

However, if people want voting to get going right away that’s also okay.

What date range for voting suits everyone?

Maybe have Wednesday be the first day to submit ballots and have Friday be when it closes? Announce the winner on Saturday?

[gouki88]

That sounds good to me, how about we say midnight ET Friday night (or Saturday morning if you want to be technical) as the deadline, with voting opening on Wednesday at 8am? I’ll send out a mass-PM to all the GMs to remind them to vote at the opening of voting and again near the close of voting, if any have forgotten.

Going to make a over-the-top detailed post about my team soon

[nickagneta]

That sounds good to me, how about we say midnight ET Friday night (or Saturday morning if you want to be technical) as the deadline, with voting opening on Wednesday at 8am? I’ll send out a mass-PM to all the GMs to remind them to vote at the opening of voting and again near the close of voting, if any have forgotten.

Going to make a over-the-top detailed post about my team soon

I guess that means that all rosters need to be finalized and submitted somewhere with the seasons selected for each player. Where should team owners post those rosters so they can be properly judged?

[gouki88]

That sounds good to me, how about we say midnight ET Friday night (or Saturday morning if you want to be technical) as the deadline, with voting opening on Wednesday at 8am? I’ll send out a mass-PM to all the GMs to remind them to vote at the opening of voting and again near the close of voting, if any have forgotten.

Going to make a over-the-top detailed post about my team soon

I guess that means that all rosters need to be finalized and submitted somewhere with the seasons selected for each player. Where should team owners post those rosters so they can be properly judged?

I’ll make a dedicated roster thread, I’ve got most of the teams with their player seasons in the OP of this thread, but from what I could see not all GMs have finalised their teams. I’ll get onto that shortly

[nickagneta]

The Suns willing to talk trade before Wednesday's deadline.

[Jvalin]

Yes, I’d take any of the bigs I mentioned above over Embiid, and almost all of them over Jokic (who is a terrible defender, but a unique offensive player)..

A few words on Jokic's defense.

Postup defense
He's a big presence in the paint thanks to his length/strength. Allowed 0.71 PPP when posted up last season, which ranks in the 83.9th percentile.

Pick n Roll defense
Massively underrated PnR defender.

https://twitter.com/HPbasketball/status/1232719743657947137?s=20
''NBA Expert: Nikola Jokic Is The Best Pick And Roll Defender In The League''
https://fadeawayworld.net/2020/02/27/nba-expert-nikola-jokic-is-the-best-pick-and-roll-defender-in-the-league/

Rim protection
I'm just gonna repost Somebody's stats.

''When Jokic is on the floor, the Nuggets allow 3.8 percent fewer shots at the rim than average. That ranks in the 93rd percentile among all NBA players''

• Joel Embiid - 100th percentile (Minus-7.9 percent)
• Bam Adebayo - 98th percentile (Minus-5.5 percent)
• Draymond Green - 95th percentile (Minus-4.7 percent)
• Kristaps Porzingis - 95th percentile (Minus-4.5 percent)
• Nikola Jokic - 93rd percentile (Minus-3.9 percent)

Perimeter defense
This is literally the only weakness in his game. He ain't quick enough to stay in front of explosive players on the perimeter. That being said, the vast majority of Centers in our draft are old school players. I can't think of a single Center that would be a matchup problem for Jokic on the perimeter. Imo, the best 2-way mobile Center in the draft is Bam, but he ain't a 3pt shooter. No need for Jokic to follow him on the perimeter.

I challenge anybody to name a Center in our draft that would be a matchup problem for Jokic on the perimeter. At the same time, Jokic would be a matchup problem for every single Center in the draft on the offensive side of the ball.

[Somebody]

Yes, I’d take any of the bigs I mentioned above over Embiid, and almost all of them over Jokic (who is a terrible defender, but a unique offensive player)..

A few words on Jokic's defense.

Postup defense
He's a big presence in the paint thanks to his length/strength. Allowed 0.71 PPP when posted up last season, which ranks in the 83.9th percentile.

Pick n Roll defense
Massively underrated PnR defender.

https://twitter.com/HPbasketball/status/1232719743657947137?s=20
''NBA Expert: Nikola Jokic Is The Best Pick And Roll Defender In The League''
https://fadeawayworld.net/2020/02/27/nba-expert-nikola-jokic-is-the-best-pick-and-roll-defender-in-the-league/

Rim protection
I'm just gonna repost Somebody's stats.

''When Jokic is on the floor, the Nuggets allow 3.8 percent fewer shots at the rim than average. That ranks in the 93rd percentile among all NBA players''

• Joel Embiid - 100th percentile (Minus-7.9 percent)
• Bam Adebayo - 98th percentile (Minus-5.5 percent)
• Draymond Green - 95th percentile (Minus-4.7 percent)
• Kristaps Porzingis - 95th percentile (Minus-4.5 percent)
• Nikola Jokic - 93rd percentile (Minus-3.9 percent)

Perimeter defense
This is his weak spot. He ain't quick enough to stay in front of explosive players on the perimeter. That being said, the vast majority of Centers in our draft are old school players. I can't think of a single Center that would be a matchup problem for Jokic on the perimeter. Imo, the best 2-way mobile Center in the draft is Bam, but he ain't a 3pt shooter. No need for Jokic to follow him on the perimeter.

I challenge anybody to name a Center in our draft that would be a matchup problem for Jokic on the perimeter. At the same time, Jokic would be a matchup problem for literally every single Center in the draft on the offensive side of the ball.

Those numbers regarding his PnR defence are from the RS, they looked terrible against the Jazz in the playoffs. Both sides of the extreme (his RS/Jazz numbers) shouldn't be taken as gospel when evaluating his PnR defence imo: he has his issues in defending the PnR due to his weak lateral agility and explosiveness, but his quick hands, great anticipation and good positioning offset those weaknesses quite a bit. He's really an average to slightly above average defender depending on the matchup - nowhere close to being a terrible one, but he's definitely not elite either.

[Darth_Yoda]

All I know is, Jokic is going to struggle MASSIVELY against a team with speed at the Center spot.

McGinnis and Hawkins will give up size offensively to Jokic but will run him into the ground offensively

[Jvalin]

Yes, I’d take any of the bigs I mentioned above over Embiid, and almost all of them over Jokic (who is a terrible defender, but a unique offensive player)..

A few words on Jokic's defense.

Postup defense
He's a big presence in the paint thanks to his length/strength. Allowed 0.71 PPP when posted up last season, which ranks in the 83.9th percentile.

Pick n Roll defense
Massively underrated PnR defender.

https://twitter.com/HPbasketball/status/1232719743657947137?s=20
''NBA Expert: Nikola Jokic Is The Best Pick And Roll Defender In The League''
https://fadeawayworld.net/2020/02/27/nba-expert-nikola-jokic-is-the-best-pick-and-roll-defender-in-the-league/

Rim protection
I'm just gonna repost Somebody's stats.

''When Jokic is on the floor, the Nuggets allow 3.8 percent fewer shots at the rim than average. That ranks in the 93rd percentile among all NBA players''

• Joel Embiid - 100th percentile (Minus-7.9 percent)
• Bam Adebayo - 98th percentile (Minus-5.5 percent)
• Draymond Green - 95th percentile (Minus-4.7 percent)
• Kristaps Porzingis - 95th percentile (Minus-4.5 percent)
• Nikola Jokic - 93rd percentile (Minus-3.9 percent)

Perimeter defense
This is his weak spot. He ain't quick enough to stay in front of explosive players on the perimeter. That being said, the vast majority of Centers in our draft are old school players. I can't think of a single Center that would be a matchup problem for Jokic on the perimeter. Imo, the best 2-way mobile Center in the draft is Bam, but he ain't a 3pt shooter. No need for Jokic to follow him on the perimeter.

I challenge anybody to name a Center in our draft that would be a matchup problem for Jokic on the perimeter. At the same time, Jokic would be a matchup problem for literally every single Center in the draft on the offensive side of the ball.

Those numbers regarding his PnR defence are from the RS, they looked terrible against the Jazz in the playoffs. Both sides of the extreme (his RS/Jazz numbers) shouldn't be taken as gospel when evaluating his PnR defence imo: he has his issues in defending the PnR due to his weak lateral agility and explosiveness, but his quick hands, great anticipation and good positioning offset those weaknesses quite a bit. He's really an average to slightly above average defender depending on the matchup - nowhere close to being a terrible one, but he's definitely not elite either.

It's very easy to hide him on D, cause he's a very good defender when used in a drop scheme. In fact, only 4% of the plays he defended in the playoffs where PnR plays. I would argue that Jokic is a very good PnR defender, provided that he's used in a drop scheme. We had more or less the same discussion when I drafted him.

There are 3 ways to defend the pick n roll:

1. go under the pick
2. go over the pick
3. switch (This is what the Celtics do whenever Theis is on the court.)

How do the Nuggets defend the PnR?

- Switching is off the table cause Jokic ain't quick enough to stay in front of guards on the perimeter.
- Going under the pick is a great option against ball handlers who are below average 3pt shooters. Obviously, it ain't a viable option against ball handlers who are good shooters.
- That leaves them with the 2nd option: go over the pick. Their guard defender denies the open 3pt shot. At the same time, Jokic drops back to protect the rim in case the opposing ball handler passes the ball to the roller. It's a perfectly viable defensive scheme. In fact, the Nuggets allowed 0.84 PPP when defending the PnR ball handler last season (7th best in the league). Just because the C's switch, it doesn't mean that all teams should do the same thing. Fwiw, the C's allowed 0.86 PPP (8th in the league).

Again, none of this really matters in our league, cause the vast majority of big men are old school players. In our league, Jokic has zero weaknesses. Imo, he's the best Center in the draft. Based on the advanced stats, it's not even close.

VORP by position - Centers (career high in a single season)
1. Nikola Jokic 7.0
2. Moses Malone 5.5

Box Plus/Minus by position - Centers (career high in a single season)
1. Nikola Jokic 9.1
2. Arvydas Sabonis 6.7
(...)
7. Moses Malone 4.5

Obviously, he ain't got the accolades of Moses, but he's only 25 years old. Jokic led a mediocre Nuggets team to the WCF last season (alongside Murray). When all is said and done, I firmly believe he'll be considered a better player than Moses. Imo, he's already a top 2 passing Center of all time. Only passing Center I'd take over Jokic is Arvydas Sabonis in his prime. For the record, I believe that prime Sabonis was a GOAT candidate! Unfortunately, his prime was cut short because of injuries.

[gouki88]

All I know is, Jokic is going to struggle MASSIVELY against a team with speed at the Center spot.

McGinnis and Hawkins will give up size offensively to Jokic but will run him into the ground offensively

I'm not sure how long Jvalin would leave Jokic out there if Hawkins or McGinnis were giving him issues. Jvalin has a number of well-equipped defenders for those guys.

I think they would, to an extent, trouble the Joker, but Jokic has 50lbs on McGinnis and 70lbs on Hawkins, as well as height. Not sure that it breaks in your favour to try and go small on him when he's such a good passer, and now that he's developed those funky post moves.

[Jvalin]

All I know is, Jokic is going to struggle MASSIVELY against a team with speed at the Center spot.

McGinnis and Hawkins will give up size offensively to Jokic but will run him into the ground offensively

Neither of these guys are Centers. It's as if saying that Siakam is more mobile than Jokic. Yeah sure, but Siakam is a PF.

Assuming you plan to use them at the 5 against Jokic:

Scoring
Jokic is way taller than both of them. He can shoot over them all day long. Btw, he shot 39.3% from 3 on 4 attempts per game during the 2018/19 playoffs.

Alternatively,



Defense
Nothing changes for me. I'll still run my drop scheme. Neither Hawk nor McGinnis are 3pt shooters. No reason for Jokic to follow them on the perimeter. If you plan to run a mid-range heavy offense, that's a recipe for disaster. The mid range shot is hands down the worst shot in basketball. Plus, I got 3 elite help defenders in my starting lineup: Kawhi, DJ and Siakam.

Rebounding
Jokic averaged 13 rebs/game during the 2018/19 playoffs. BBQ chicken vol. 2.

I haven't even talked about his passing skills yet. The guy averaged 8.4 assists and 2.6 t/o during the 2018/19 playoffs! Hawk and McGinnis would be all over the place! Should they focus on cutters? Should they focus on shooters? Should they focus on defending the perimeter? Should they focus on defending the post? Good luck trying to figure out the next move of the Joker!

I'm telling you man, Jokic is unplayable in this draft! Nobody can stop him!

[Darth_Yoda]

All I know is, Jokic is going to struggle MASSIVELY against a team with speed at the Center spot.

McGinnis and Hawkins will give up size offensively to Jokic but will run him into the ground offensively

Neither of these guys are Centers. It's as if saying that Siakam is more mobile than Jokic. Yeah sure, but Siakam is a PF.

Assuming you plan to use them at the 5 against Jokic:

Scoring
Jokic is way taller than both of them. He can shoot over them all day long. Btw, he shot 39.3% from 3 on 4 attempts per game during the 2018/19 playoffs.

Alternatively,



Defense
Nothing changes for me. I'll still run my drop scheme. Neither Hawk nor McGinnis are 3pt shooters. No reason for Jokic to follow them on the perimeter. If you plan to run a mid-range heavy offense, that's a recipe for disaster. The mid range shot is hands down the worst shot in basketball. Plus, I got 3 elite help defenders in my starting lineup: Kawhi, DJ and Siakam.

Rebounding
Jokic averaged 13 rebs/game during the 2018/19 playoffs. BBQ chicken vol. 2.

I haven't even talked about his passing skills yet. The guy averaged 8.4 assists and 2.6 t/o during the 2018/19 playoffs! Hawk and McGinnis would be all over the place! Should they focus on cutters? Should they focus on shooters? Should they focus on defending the perimeter? Should they focus on defending the post? Good luck trying to figure out the next move of the Joker!

I'm telling you man, Jokic is unplayable in this draft! Nobody can stop him!

McGinnis and Hawkins are shooters, So that drop coverage theory is already broken. And even if they werent shooters, Jokic cannot keep up with them on their attack. So he could in theory drop (assuming the boys cannot shoot) but they would still drive past and or into him

Jokic would have to guard them, and he will not keep up.

Denver has the 2nd slowest pace in the NBA, my team can ramp up the speed and tire out Jokic. You will not be setting up a half court defense as you will most likely face a 7 seconds or less offense.

And if for some reason the game does slow down I have the horses to defend Jokic (Ibaka, Capela (outrebounded Jokic in head to head matchups over career)) without too much trouble.

[Somebody]

Yes, I’d take any of the bigs I mentioned above over Embiid, and almost all of them over Jokic (who is a terrible defender, but a unique offensive player)..

A few words on Jokic's defense.

Postup defense
He's a big presence in the paint thanks to his length/strength. Allowed 0.71 PPP when posted up last season, which ranks in the 83.9th percentile.

Pick n Roll defense
Massively underrated PnR defender.

https://twitter.com/HPbasketball/status/1232719743657947137?s=20
''NBA Expert: Nikola Jokic Is The Best Pick And Roll Defender In The League''
https://fadeawayworld.net/2020/02/27/nba-expert-nikola-jokic-is-the-best-pick-and-roll-defender-in-the-league/

Rim protection
I'm just gonna repost Somebody's stats.

''When Jokic is on the floor, the Nuggets allow 3.8 percent fewer shots at the rim than average. That ranks in the 93rd percentile among all NBA players''

• Joel Embiid - 100th percentile (Minus-7.9 percent)
• Bam Adebayo - 98th percentile (Minus-5.5 percent)
• Draymond Green - 95th percentile (Minus-4.7 percent)
• Kristaps Porzingis - 95th percentile (Minus-4.5 percent)
• Nikola Jokic - 93rd percentile (Minus-3.9 percent)

Perimeter defense
This is his weak spot. He ain't quick enough to stay in front of explosive players on the perimeter. That being said, the vast majority of Centers in our draft are old school players. I can't think of a single Center that would be a matchup problem for Jokic on the perimeter. Imo, the best 2-way mobile Center in the draft is Bam, but he ain't a 3pt shooter. No need for Jokic to follow him on the perimeter.

I challenge anybody to name a Center in our draft that would be a matchup problem for Jokic on the perimeter. At the same time, Jokic would be a matchup problem for literally every single Center in the draft on the offensive side of the ball.

Those numbers regarding his PnR defence are from the RS, they looked terrible against the Jazz in the playoffs. Both sides of the extreme (his RS/Jazz numbers) shouldn't be taken as gospel when evaluating his PnR defence imo: he has his issues in defending the PnR due to his weak lateral agility and explosiveness, but his quick hands, great anticipation and good positioning offset those weaknesses quite a bit. He's really an average to slightly above average defender depending on the matchup - nowhere close to being a terrible one, but he's definitely not elite either.

It's very easy to hide him on D, cause he's a very good defender when used in a drop scheme. In fact, only 4% of the plays he defended in the playoffs where PnR plays. I would argue that Jokic is a very good PnR defender, provided that he's used in a drop scheme. We had more or less the same discussion when I drafted him.

There are 3 ways to defend the pick n roll:

1. go under the pick
2. go over the pick
3. switch (This is what the Celtics do whenever Theis is on the court.)

How do the Nuggets defend the PnR?

- Switching is off the table cause Jokic ain't quick enough to stay in front of guards on the perimeter.
- Going under the pick is a great option against ball handlers who are below average 3pt shooters. Obviously, it ain't a viable option against ball handlers who are good shooters.
- That leaves them with the 2nd option: go over the pick. Their guard defender denies the open 3pt shot. At the same time, Jokic drops back to protect the rim in case the opposing ball handler passes the ball to the roller. It's a perfectly viable defensive scheme. In fact, the Nuggets allowed 0.84 PPP when defending the PnR ball handler last season (7th best in the league). Just because the C's switch, it doesn't mean that all teams should do the same thing. Fwiw, the C's allowed 0.86 PPP (8th in the league).

Again, none of this really matters in our league, cause the vast majority of big men are old school players. In our league, Jokic has zero weaknesses. Imo, he's the best Center in the draft. Based on the advanced stats, it's not even close.

VORP by position - Centers (career high in a single season)
1. Nikola Jokic 7.0
2. Moses Malone 5.5

Box Plus/Minus by position - Centers (career high in a single season)
1. Nikola Jokic 9.1
2. Arvydas Sabonis 6.7
(...)
7. Moses Malone 4.5

Obviously, he ain't got the accolades of Moses, but he's only 25 years old. Jokic led a mediocre Nuggets team to the WCF last season (alongside Murray). When all is said and done, I firmly believe he'll be considered a better player than Moses. Imo, he's already a top 2 passing Center of all time. Only passing Center I'd take over Jokic is Arvydas Sabonis in his prime. For the record, I believe that prime Sabonis was a GOAT candidate! Unfortunately, his prime was cut short because of injuries.

Going over the screen isn't as easy as it sounds though, you'll have to fight through a 7 foot wall and still be a step or two slow if not outright unable to follow the ballhandler if the big sets a really mean screen. Obviously there aren't a ton of perimeter players who can pull up from three efficiently on high volume, but these guys exist and will likely give your defence quite a bit of trouble.