Hayward sign-and-trade completed

[Tr1boy]

How? Signing him did not put the team into lux tax?
Hayward had opted OUT at the point they signed him.

Hard Cap should have nothing to do with his signing or does it just apply to any MLE signing regardless of team payroll. If your team is over the cap and you use more than 1 dollar than the tax payer portion, the BAE or acquire a player in a sign and trade?

Thats dumb if it is.

That wold mean that Charlotte, if they can trade away batum for nothing, and sign and trade for Hayward will be hard capped, even though they are below the salary cap?

Two things going on:

1. When Hayward opted out, the Celtics went below the luxury tax apron (but still above the salary cap). This granted them the non-taxpayer MLE they used to sign Thompson. As far as I know, the Celtics did not become hard-capped for the entire season by signing Thompson. Instead, they seem intent on not going into luxury tax territory this year. That is so that the taxpayer penalties reset for the years they plan to pay it in the future. 

2. When a team S&T's for a player they become hard-capped. That means they cannot go above the apron for the rest of the season.

Hopefully this is clarifying slightly, lol.

I don't understand this part

then what is the benefit of the TPE?

Charlotte will become hard-capped by acquiring Hayward via S&T.

For Boston, the TPE can be used during this season to acquire a player making ~$14 million and under. This allows them to take on salary while still not crossing into the (self-inflicted) restricted luxury tax zone. Conversely, there could be a few day window at the start of next year when they could use it.

Other than saving money by not waiving and stretching Batum.   What would be the benefit of trading the TPE for the Hornets?
Just for a Celtics 2nd round pick? 

I still don't buy it... doing Danny a favor ... but I could be wrong

wouldn't Hornets also lose cap flexibility?   I mean if they are serious about contending for a playoff spot

I can totally see why OKC would do this. To set a record for obtaining the most picks in history

[Jiri Welsch]

Other than saving money by not waiving and stretching Batum.   What would the benefit of trading the TPE for the Hornets?
Just for a Celtics 2nd round pick? 

I still don't buy, doing Danny a favor ... but I could be wrong

wouldn't Hornets also lose cap flexibility?   I mean if they are serious about contending

I can totally see why OKC would do this. To set a record for obtaining the most picks in history

Yeah. I think from Charlotte's perspective, if Boston can help facilitate a trade that lets them unload Batum's contract, that will save them $27 million over three years.

I also don't believe Charlotte is getting close to paying the luxury tax this year, so the hard capped season won't impact them.

[Sketch5]

Hopefully this trade happens soon, so that we can start speculating on potential player acquisitions rather than our (collective) blind spots re: the CBA!

YEah, there must be an other player lined up, I thought we'd be in the 25ish range, 15 makes it a bit harder.

IM not sure what Heild is making this year, but I could see DA going at him, or even Jabarri Parker, just wish he would be healthier. Reddick would be nice, but man he's 36 now, still plays well, but body will break down soon.

My wish list is a wing, and bring back IT, sounds like he's feeling really good now and if he could give us 12-15 off the bench I'd be super happy. Loved that guy.

[lrybrd]

Williams and Redick make under the 15 million that keeps us under the apron. 

[Jvalin]

Probably a pipe dream, but I'd happily take Batum's contract provided that the Hornets throw in PJ Washington.

Boston in: Batum + Washington
Charlotte in: Hayward + Edwards

The Hornets avoid cutting Batum, hence they save $9,043,478 a year for the next 3 seasons. The C's get a very promising 3+D prospect in Washington.


PG: Kemba - Smart - Pritchard - Teague
SG: Brown - Romeo - Smart
SF: Tatum - Nesmith - Batum
PF: Washington - Grant - Semi
C: Thompson - Theis - Timelord

That would put the Celtics over the luxury tax apron, which they are very intentionally trying not to cross this season.

They are realistically only going to be able to acquire a player with a ~$14 million contract. Unless they begin to trade away legitimate rotation players, in which case what's the point.

Ugh, you're right. Forgot we got hard capped by signing Thompson.

How? Signing him did not put the team into lux tax?
Hayward had opted OUT at the point they signed him.

Hard Cap should have nothing to do with his signing or does it just apply to any MLE signing regardless of team payroll. If your team is over the cap and you use more than 1 dollar than the tax payer portion, the BAE or acquire a player in a sign and trade?

Thats dumb if it is.

That wold mean that Charlotte, if they can trade away batum for nothing, and sign and trade for Hayward will be hard capped, even though they are below the salary cap?

Here's the quote from the CBA:

''any team that uses its Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception cannot go above the Apron for the remainder of that season. In other words, once a team uses its Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception, it is hard-capped at the Apron''.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q25

Charlotte is hard capped as well, regardless of what happens with Batum.

''Can a free agent be signed and immediately traded?
(...) The team receiving the player cannot be above the "Apron" (see question number 20) at the conclusion of the trade. (...) If a team acquires a player in a sign-and-trade, then the Apron effectively becomes a hard cap for the remainder of that season.''

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q92

[Darth_Yoda]

Probably a pipe dream, but I'd happily take Batum's contract provided that the Hornets throw in PJ Washington.

Boston in: Batum + Washington
Charlotte in: Hayward + Edwards

The Hornets avoid cutting Batum, hence they save $9,043,478 a year for the next 3 seasons. The C's get a very promising 3+D prospect in Washington.


PG: Kemba - Smart - Pritchard - Teague
SG: Brown - Romeo - Smart
SF: Tatum - Nesmith - Batum
PF: Washington - Grant - Semi
C: Thompson - Theis - Timelord

That would put the Celtics over the luxury tax apron, which they are very intentionally trying not to cross this season.

They are realistically only going to be able to acquire a player with a ~$14 million contract. Unless they begin to trade away legitimate rotation players, in which case what's the point.

Ugh, you're right. Forgot we got hard capped by signing Thompson.

How? Signing him did not put the team into lux tax?
Hayward had opted OUT at the point they signed him.

Hard Cap should have nothing to do with his signing or does it just apply to any MLE signing regardless of team payroll. If your team is over the cap and you use more than 1 dollar than the tax payer portion, the BAE or acquire a player in a sign and trade?

Thats dumb if it is.

That wold mean that Charlotte, if they can trade away batum for nothing, and sign and trade for Hayward will be hard capped, even though they are below the salary cap?

Here's the quote from the CBA:

''any team that uses its Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception cannot go above the Apron for the remainder of that season. In other words, once a team uses its Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception, it is hard-capped at the Apron''.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q25

Charlotte is hard capped as well, regardless of what happens with Batum.

''Can a free agent be signed and immediately traded?
(...) The team receiving the player cannot be above the "Apron" (see question number 20) at the conclusion of the trade. (...) If a team acquires a player in a sign-and-trade, then the Apron effectively becomes a hard cap for the remainder of that season.''

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q92

hard capped but below the salary cap. That is a dumb rule

[Jvalin]

Probably a pipe dream, but I'd happily take Batum's contract provided that the Hornets throw in PJ Washington.

Boston in: Batum + Washington
Charlotte in: Hayward + Edwards

The Hornets avoid cutting Batum, hence they save $9,043,478 a year for the next 3 seasons. The C's get a very promising 3+D prospect in Washington.


PG: Kemba - Smart - Pritchard - Teague
SG: Brown - Romeo - Smart
SF: Tatum - Nesmith - Batum
PF: Washington - Grant - Semi
C: Thompson - Theis - Timelord

That would put the Celtics over the luxury tax apron, which they are very intentionally trying not to cross this season.

They are realistically only going to be able to acquire a player with a ~$14 million contract. Unless they begin to trade away legitimate rotation players, in which case what's the point.

Ugh, you're right. Forgot we got hard capped by signing Thompson.

How? Signing him did not put the team into lux tax?
Hayward had opted OUT at the point they signed him.

Hard Cap should have nothing to do with his signing or does it just apply to any MLE signing regardless of team payroll. If your team is over the cap and you use more than 1 dollar than the tax payer portion, the BAE or acquire a player in a sign and trade?

Thats dumb if it is.

That wold mean that Charlotte, if they can trade away batum for nothing, and sign and trade for Hayward will be hard capped, even though they are below the salary cap?

Here's the quote from the CBA:

''any team that uses its Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception cannot go above the Apron for the remainder of that season. In other words, once a team uses its Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception, it is hard-capped at the Apron''.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q25

Charlotte is hard capped as well, regardless of what happens with Batum.

''Can a free agent be signed and immediately traded?
(...) The team receiving the player cannot be above the "Apron" (see question number 20) at the conclusion of the trade. (...) If a team acquires a player in a sign-and-trade, then the Apron effectively becomes a hard cap for the remainder of that season.''

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q92

hard capped but below the salary cap. That is a dumb rule

We aren't below the salary cap. We are below the tax line. That's not the same thing.

salary cap: $109,140,000
tax line: $132,627,000
tax apron: $138,928,000

If we were below the salary cap, we could have used only the room exception.

[Darth_Yoda]

Probably a pipe dream, but I'd happily take Batum's contract provided that the Hornets throw in PJ Washington.

Boston in: Batum + Washington
Charlotte in: Hayward + Edwards

The Hornets avoid cutting Batum, hence they save $9,043,478 a year for the next 3 seasons. The C's get a very promising 3+D prospect in Washington.


PG: Kemba - Smart - Pritchard - Teague
SG: Brown - Romeo - Smart
SF: Tatum - Nesmith - Batum
PF: Washington - Grant - Semi
C: Thompson - Theis - Timelord

That would put the Celtics over the luxury tax apron, which they are very intentionally trying not to cross this season.

They are realistically only going to be able to acquire a player with a ~$14 million contract. Unless they begin to trade away legitimate rotation players, in which case what's the point.

Ugh, you're right. Forgot we got hard capped by signing Thompson.

How? Signing him did not put the team into lux tax?
Hayward had opted OUT at the point they signed him.

Hard Cap should have nothing to do with his signing or does it just apply to any MLE signing regardless of team payroll. If your team is over the cap and you use more than 1 dollar than the tax payer portion, the BAE or acquire a player in a sign and trade?

Thats dumb if it is.

That wold mean that Charlotte, if they can trade away batum for nothing, and sign and trade for Hayward will be hard capped, even though they are below the salary cap?

Here's the quote from the CBA:

''any team that uses its Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception cannot go above the Apron for the remainder of that season. In other words, once a team uses its Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception, it is hard-capped at the Apron''.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q25

Charlotte is hard capped as well, regardless of what happens with Batum.

''Can a free agent be signed and immediately traded?
(...) The team receiving the player cannot be above the "Apron" (see question number 20) at the conclusion of the trade. (...) If a team acquires a player in a sign-and-trade, then the Apron effectively becomes a hard cap for the remainder of that season.''

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q92

hard capped but below the salary cap. That is a dumb rule

We aren't below the salary cap. We are below the tax line. That's not the same thing.

salary cap: $109,140,000
tax line: $132,627,000
tax apron: $138,928,000

If we were below the salary cap, we could have used only the room exception.

Charlotte, not us, if they move Batum for nothing and sign Hayward I believe they are about 10 million below the cap. But are hard capped according the the rule of sign and trades.

[Jvalin]

Probably a pipe dream, but I'd happily take Batum's contract provided that the Hornets throw in PJ Washington.

Boston in: Batum + Washington
Charlotte in: Hayward + Edwards

The Hornets avoid cutting Batum, hence they save $9,043,478 a year for the next 3 seasons. The C's get a very promising 3+D prospect in Washington.


PG: Kemba - Smart - Pritchard - Teague
SG: Brown - Romeo - Smart
SF: Tatum - Nesmith - Batum
PF: Washington - Grant - Semi
C: Thompson - Theis - Timelord

That would put the Celtics over the luxury tax apron, which they are very intentionally trying not to cross this season.

They are realistically only going to be able to acquire a player with a ~$14 million contract. Unless they begin to trade away legitimate rotation players, in which case what's the point.

Ugh, you're right. Forgot we got hard capped by signing Thompson.

How? Signing him did not put the team into lux tax?
Hayward had opted OUT at the point they signed him.

Hard Cap should have nothing to do with his signing or does it just apply to any MLE signing regardless of team payroll. If your team is over the cap and you use more than 1 dollar than the tax payer portion, the BAE or acquire a player in a sign and trade?

Thats dumb if it is.

That wold mean that Charlotte, if they can trade away batum for nothing, and sign and trade for Hayward will be hard capped, even though they are below the salary cap?

Here's the quote from the CBA:

''any team that uses its Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception cannot go above the Apron for the remainder of that season. In other words, once a team uses its Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception, it is hard-capped at the Apron''.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q25

Charlotte is hard capped as well, regardless of what happens with Batum.

''Can a free agent be signed and immediately traded?
(...) The team receiving the player cannot be above the "Apron" (see question number 20) at the conclusion of the trade. (...) If a team acquires a player in a sign-and-trade, then the Apron effectively becomes a hard cap for the remainder of that season.''

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q92

hard capped but below the salary cap. That is a dumb rule

We aren't below the salary cap. We are below the tax line. That's not the same thing.

salary cap: $109,140,000
tax line: $132,627,000
tax apron: $138,928,000

If we were below the salary cap, we could have used only the room exception.

Charlotte, not us, if they move Batum for nothing and sign Hayward I believe they are about 10 million below the cap. But are hard capped according the the rule of sign and trades.

I bet the Hornets couldn't care less about the hard cap. They'll end up well below the tax line, never mind the tax apron.

[Darth_Yoda]

Probably a pipe dream, but I'd happily take Batum's contract provided that the Hornets throw in PJ Washington.

Boston in: Batum + Washington
Charlotte in: Hayward + Edwards

The Hornets avoid cutting Batum, hence they save $9,043,478 a year for the next 3 seasons. The C's get a very promising 3+D prospect in Washington.


PG: Kemba - Smart - Pritchard - Teague
SG: Brown - Romeo - Smart
SF: Tatum - Nesmith - Batum
PF: Washington - Grant - Semi
C: Thompson - Theis - Timelord

That would put the Celtics over the luxury tax apron, which they are very intentionally trying not to cross this season.

They are realistically only going to be able to acquire a player with a ~$14 million contract. Unless they begin to trade away legitimate rotation players, in which case what's the point.

Ugh, you're right. Forgot we got hard capped by signing Thompson.

How? Signing him did not put the team into lux tax?
Hayward had opted OUT at the point they signed him.

Hard Cap should have nothing to do with his signing or does it just apply to any MLE signing regardless of team payroll. If your team is over the cap and you use more than 1 dollar than the tax payer portion, the BAE or acquire a player in a sign and trade?

Thats dumb if it is.

That wold mean that Charlotte, if they can trade away batum for nothing, and sign and trade for Hayward will be hard capped, even though they are below the salary cap?

Here's the quote from the CBA:

''any team that uses its Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception cannot go above the Apron for the remainder of that season. In other words, once a team uses its Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception, it is hard-capped at the Apron''.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q25

Charlotte is hard capped as well, regardless of what happens with Batum.

''Can a free agent be signed and immediately traded?
(...) The team receiving the player cannot be above the "Apron" (see question number 20) at the conclusion of the trade. (...) If a team acquires a player in a sign-and-trade, then the Apron effectively becomes a hard cap for the remainder of that season.''

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q92

hard capped but below the salary cap. That is a dumb rule

We aren't below the salary cap. We are below the tax line. That's not the same thing.

salary cap: $109,140,000
tax line: $132,627,000
tax apron: $138,928,000

If we were below the salary cap, we could have used only the room exception.

Charlotte, not us, if they move Batum for nothing and sign Hayward I believe they are about 10 million below the cap. But are hard capped according the the rule of sign and trades.

I bet the Hornets couldn't care less about the hard cap. They'll end up well below the tax line, never mind the tax apron.

Not saying they care about it, saying that its a foolish rule if a team below the cap gets hard capped because they made a sign and trade.

There should be more rules to the triggering of it. That is all.

Hypothetically a team could be 40 million below the salary cap and be hard capped. Seems silly to me.

[Darth_Yoda]

Suppose the Charlotte deal falls through after all of this?

That would be lol worthy.

[Vermont Green]

The second thing is more a question than a statement. Although you can use the TPE for more than 1 player I think it has to be in the same trade, I don't think you can use 15 of the 30 million at the deadline and another 15 million in a separate deal this off season (correct me if i'm wrong).

I don't know this for sure either but below is an example where Dallas appears to have used parts of the exception in two different trades.  They obtained the TPE when Harrison Barnes went out in Feb 2019, used part of it in July 2019 on Delon Wright, and were listed as retaining the balance which expired Feb 2020.  I am not sure if they actually ended up using the balance but this implies that you can use parts of it in more than one transaction.

I am assuming (but could be wrong) that the Celtics could use it in the same way.  If they get a $28M exception, use some of it at the trade deadline and some of it in the off season for next season.  Next season, with Tatum's deal kicking in, they will be in the Tax range no matter what I believe.

Dallas Mavericks: $11,825,694 (expires 2/7/20): Initially worth $21MM+, this Harrison Barnes trade exception was nearly cut in half when Dallas used it to acquire Delon Wright. It’s still valuable enough to potentially come in handy before the 2020 trade deadline though. The Mavericks are far enough below the luxury tax line to acquire a salary worth $11.8MM and still stay out of tax territory.

[pearljammer10]

The second thing is more a question than a statement. Although you can use the TPE for more than 1 player I think it has to be in the same trade, I don't think you can use 15 of the 30 million at the deadline and another 15 million in a separate deal this off season (correct me if i'm wrong).

I don't know this for sure either but below is an example where Dallas appears to have used parts of the exception in two different trades.  They obtained the TPE when Harrison Barnes went out in Feb 2019, used part of it in July 2019 on Delon Wright, and were listed as retaining the balance which expired Feb 2020.  I am not sure if they actually ended up using the balance but this implies that you can use parts of it in more than one transaction.

I am assuming (but could be wrong) that the Celtics could use it in the same way.  If they get a $28M exception, use some of it at the trade deadline and some of it in the off season for next season.  Next season, with Tatum's deal kicking in, they will be in the Tax range no matter what I believe.

Dallas Mavericks: $11,825,694 (expires 2/7/20): Initially worth $21MM+, this Harrison Barnes trade exception was nearly cut in half when Dallas used it to acquire Delon Wright. It’s still valuable enough to potentially come in handy before the 2020 trade deadline though. The Mavericks are far enough below the luxury tax line to acquire a salary worth $11.8MM and still stay out of tax territory.

The C's would be able to use the 28 million dollar TPE in pieces, correct. We just have to use it within a year. So we could technically trade an asset for a player in the 14 million ish range this year, and then use the other 14 million or whatever it ends up being on another player next offseason.

[pearljammer10]

Suppose the Charlotte deal falls through after all of this?

That would be lol worthy.

It won't. Charlotte would just waive and stretch Batum and then sign Hayward.

Hayward to Charlotte will happen whether the sign and trade portion falls through or not.

[Tr1boy]

At this rate, I don't think anything is going to happen

The third team probably wants to extract everything possible under the sun

Cash, three 2nd round picks (2 from Hornets and 1 from Celtics (2021 memphis))

They are squabbling, leading to nowhere