Hayward sign-and-trade completed

[NKY fan]

I wonder if the hold up on the S&T is because Danny wants to see what Davis and Giannis do with their contracts first.
Maybe the S&T becomes much bigger if Davis signs a 1+1 deal and Giannis doesn’t extend for the super max ... meaning both of them become free agents next summer...

I don’t follow.

Danny doesn’t really have leverage because Char can just waive and stretch Batum and sign Hayward out right. How would waiting to see what Giannis and Davis do impact this sign and trade?

Well I am sure Jordan doesn’t want to waste $27 M for batums stretch.. he’s probably holding for the best solution without having use the stretch provision on Batum

[Vermont Green]

The Knicks drafted Quickley so now have 4 young PGs on the roster (Ntilikina, Smith, Payton also).  You could certainly see them wanting to move one of these before adding Rozier.  They also have 4 SG and 4 SF on the roster and under contract.  They may actually be forced to open up a roster spot before taking on Rozier.

I don't mind taking something from the Knicks to allow us to get the TPE.  We can cut Javonte Green as his contract is not guaranteed (not sure of deadlines for that), or maybe move him to Charlotte and they can cut him (that would help our TPE a little).

The player we get from the Knicks will cost more than Javonte Green but would probably be a more useful player.

[todd_days_41]

Good article by Brian Robb on why the Cs didn’t want Turner for Hayward.

https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2020/11/28/nba-notebook-celtics-bet-myles-turner-gordon-hayward-trade-talks/

I have two questions I come back to (considering the delay):

1) Could the Cs be trying to get John Collins out of ATL as part of the Hayward deal?

2) What would CHA give Ainge to take back Batum on his expiring? They’re gonna have to eat abuncha money if he’s waived / stretched. Would they give up two 1sts? Would they give up two unprotected 1sts (because they assume with Hayward they’ll be better than they actually will be)? Leaving aside his contract, Batum would be a useful bench player for the Cs.

[hpantazo]

Good article by Brian Robb on why the Cs didn’t want Turner for Hayward.

https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2020/11/28/nba-notebook-celtics-bet-myles-turner-gordon-hayward-trade-talks/

I have two questions I come back to (considering the delay):

1) Could the Cs be trying to get John Collins out of ATL as part of the Hayward deal?

2) What would CHA give Ainge to take back Batum on his expiring? They’re gonna have to eat abuncha money if he’s waived / stretched. Would they give up two 1sts? Would they give up two unprotected 1sts (because they assume with Hayward they’ll be better than they actually will be)? Leaving aside his contract, Batum would be a useful bench player for the Cs.

Collins would be a homerun. The Hawks are all in on competing this season though, what's in it for them to move Collins now? They would need to get something worthwhile out of the deal.

[DBCooper]

Good article by Brian Robb on why the Cs didn’t want Turner for Hayward.

https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2020/11/28/nba-notebook-celtics-bet-myles-turner-gordon-hayward-trade-talks/

I have two questions I come back to (considering the delay):

1) Could the Cs be trying to get John Collins out of ATL as part of the Hayward deal?

2) What would CHA give Ainge to take back Batum on his expiring? They’re gonna have to eat abuncha money if he’s waived / stretched. Would they give up two 1sts? Would they give up two unprotected 1sts (because they assume with Hayward they’ll be better than they actually will be)? Leaving aside his contract, Batum would be a useful bench player for the Cs.

On #2, this is what I’m hoping Ainge focuses on. Somehow get a swap of picks for 2021 at least (maybe lucky to get pick), and the flip Batum to another team and give up picks if needed. 2021 is such a strong draft year I would love for Ainge to try to move up as best he can.

[Roy H.]

Good article by Brian Robb on why the Cs didn’t want Turner for Hayward.

https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2020/11/28/nba-notebook-celtics-bet-myles-turner-gordon-hayward-trade-talks/

I have two questions I come back to (considering the delay):

1) Could the Cs be trying to get John Collins out of ATL as part of the Hayward deal?

2) What would CHA give Ainge to take back Batum on his expiring? They’re gonna have to eat abuncha money if he’s waived / stretched. Would they give up two 1sts? Would they give up two unprotected 1sts (because they assume with Hayward they’ll be better than they actually will be)? Leaving aside his contract, Batum would be a useful bench player for the Cs.

I don’t think we could fit Batum under the hard cap, so it’s a non-starter.

[colincb]

Good article by Brian Robb on why the Cs didn’t want Turner for Hayward.

https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2020/11/28/nba-notebook-celtics-bet-myles-turner-gordon-hayward-trade-talks/

I have two questions I come back to (considering the delay):

1) Could the Cs be trying to get John Collins out of ATL as part of the Hayward deal?

2) What would CHA give Ainge to take back Batum on his expiring? They’re gonna have to eat abuncha money if he’s waived / stretched. Would they give up two 1sts? Would they give up two unprotected 1sts (because they assume with Hayward they’ll be better than they actually will be)? Leaving aside his contract, Batum would be a useful bench player for the Cs.

Robb does a good job as usual, but other pundits had criticized the deal earlier because of Turner and McDermott's inclusion. TT is slightly better than Turner, especially in the playoffs, and half as cheap. McDermott's offense can be limited by decent defense and he's a weak defender. At least he's an expiring contract, but he'll be vet-min hereafter I would think.

[Roy H.]

Good article by Brian Robb on why the Cs didn’t want Turner for Hayward.

https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2020/11/28/nba-notebook-celtics-bet-myles-turner-gordon-hayward-trade-talks/

I have two questions I come back to (considering the delay):

1) Could the Cs be trying to get John Collins out of ATL as part of the Hayward deal?

2) What would CHA give Ainge to take back Batum on his expiring? They’re gonna have to eat abuncha money if he’s waived / stretched. Would they give up two 1sts? Would they give up two unprotected 1sts (because they assume with Hayward they’ll be better than they actually will be)? Leaving aside his contract, Batum would be a useful bench player for the Cs.

Robb does a good job as usual, but other pundits had criticized the deal earlier because of Turner and McDermott's inclusion. TT is slightly better than Turner, especially in the playoffs, and half as cheap. McDermott's offense can be limited by decent defense and he's a weak defender. At least he's an expiring contract, but he'll be vet-min hereafter I would think.

I would have done the deal; I think Turner + McDermott would have helped this year.  But, I certainly understand not wanting to take on $24 million for two guys you’re not in love with.

I disagree that Thompson is better than Turner.  Some of these numbers, in particular, are scary:

Turner, who shot 39 percent from 3-point range two seasons ago, led the league in blocks per game in 2018-19 (2.7) and finished fifth this past season (2.1). Turner is a top-tier defender as measured by ESPN's defensive real plus-minus, which estimates that he saves just under three points per 100 possessions. For reference, Giannis Antetokounmpo, the reigning Defensive Player of the Year, saves just over three points per 100.

Turner would seemingly represent a near-perfect fit in Boston, which has widely been viewed as being a big man short of true contention; Daniel Theis, for all his underrated attributes, is only 6-foot 8. Turner is closer to seven feet. And again, he shoots it from deep and would slide right into the pick-and-pop role abandoned by Al Horford.

So why didn't the Celtics want him? Simple: he makes too much money for their blood -- $18 million each of the next three seasons. It's not an exorbitant number, but Boston just got Tristan Thompson for $18 million over two years. Thompson isn't on par with Turner in a vacuum, but he brings his own merits as an elite offensive rebounder and screener and a sufficiently switchable defender on the perimeter.

Given how much cheaper Thompson is, the Celtics decided they could do without Turner's shooting, which I believe is, or was, a mistake. Boston's endless flow of pick-and-rolls begs for a popping big like Turner who keeps the floor spaced and the lane open. And again, the interior defense is elite. Teams shot just 51 percent inside of six feet when being defended by Turner last season, per NBA.com, which is an elite mark and just three ticks off Rudy Gobert's 48-percent clip.

Thompson, meanwhile, gave up a bucket 56 percent of the time inside six feet each of the last two seasons, and he gave up a 66-percent clip in 2017-18. He's a big body and feels like more of a bruiser, but he's also two inches shorter than Turner and, again, can't shoot. The Celtics are, pretty simply, a worse team with Thompson than they would've been with Turner, and this is to say nothing of losing Hayward.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/gordon-hayward-myles-turner-and-the-celtics-failed-sign-and-trade-that-could-end-up-being-a-big-mistake/

[Jiri Welsch]

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1333126819369906176?s=20

[PAOBoston]

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1333126819369906176?s=20

I guess we’re about to find out if Cs get massive TPE or not.

[RJ87]

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1333126819369906176?s=20

Ugh. Does this mean we won't even get a TPE?

[PAOBoston]

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1333126819369906176?s=20

Ugh. Does this mean we won't even get a TPE?

Charlotte can sign him outright now but teams could still do a TPE. Cs would likely give CHA like a second rounder or something.

[RJ87]

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1333126819369906176?s=20

Ugh. Does this mean we won't even get a TPE?

Charlotte can sign him outright now but teams could still do a TPE. Cs would likely give CHA like a second rounder or something.

I'm aware it can still happen, I just don't see Charlotte's motivation now. They're pretty much paying Hayward $39m a year (yikes), is a 2nd enough for them to bite?

[NKY fan]

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1333126819369906176?s=20

Ugh. Does this mean we won't even get a TPE?

Charlotte can sign him outright now but teams could still do a TPE. Cs would likely give CHA like a second rounder or something.

Unfortunately we will have to send an asset or two to Charlotte to get the tpe.. then we have to send more assets to assume players into the TPE unless they are overpaid... not the greatest outcome. I would still prefer the turner plus a first round pick deal.
So Jordan is out of his mind to stretch batum but it’s his money so he can do what he wants.
Is anyone here hoping we get batum for the BAE?

[PAOBoston]

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1333126819369906176?s=20

Ugh. Does this mean we won't even get a TPE?

Charlotte can sign him outright now but teams could still do a TPE. Cs would likely give CHA like a second rounder or something.

I'm aware it can still happen, I just don't see Charlotte's motivation now. They're pretty much paying Hayward $39m a year (yikes), is a 2nd enough for them to bite?

I mean, really, no reason for CHA not to do it. They get the player they want plus an extra draft pick. They really don’t lose either way.