Poll

Who's the best international player of all time? (players in alphabetical order)

Giannis Antetokounmpo
7 (11.7%)
Vlade Divac
0 (0%)
Luka Doncic
2 (3.3%)
Joel Embiid
1 (1.7%)
Pau Gasol
0 (0%)
Manu Ginobili
1 (1.7%)
Rudy Gobert
0 (0%)
Nikola Jokic
0 (0%)
Sarunas Marciulionis
0 (0%)
Yao Ming
2 (3.3%)
Dikembe Mutombo
0 (0%)
Steve Nash
5 (8.3%)
Dirk Nowitzki
8 (13.3%)
Hakeem Olajuwon
23 (38.3%)
Tony Parker
0 (0%)
Drazen Petrovic
1 (1.7%)
Kristaps Porzingis
0 (0%)
Arvydas Sabonis
9 (15%)
Oscar Schmidt
0 (0%)
Pascal Siakam
0 (0%)
Ben Simmons
0 (0%)
Peja Stojakovic
0 (0%)
Karl-Anthony Towns
0 (0%)
other (please name below)
1 (1.7%)

Total Members Voted: 60

Author Topic: Poll: Best international player of all time  (Read 6617 times)

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Re: Poll: Best international player of all time
« Reply #75 on: March 18, 2020, 07:58:56 AM »

Offline Androslav

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Dražen Petrović was killing it all over the globe (Europe, NBA, international competitions) by the time he passed away, at age of 29.

It is hard for me to convince myself that he might not be the best of them all if he survived.

When performers die so young and in their primes, it is exceptionally hard to accept their loss.

I think you underrate Sabonis .... As a 31yo rookie he had  14p 8r in 23mpg in the NBA and there is a big what if in his case too

I am not saying you are wrong but I don't think it's clear as you make it to be.

He'd sign with the Knicks or the Rockets that off season and win a title or 2.

His death was formative to me.

I still remember exaclty were i was when i heard about the accident....  He was an arrogant sob but you couldn't help admiring him. 

Are you sure about the Knicks and the Rockets? Cause rumor has it  he was going to sign with Panathinaikos (huge spenders .... two summers later they signed Wilkins)
I read that HOU/NY information some 25 years ago in an article by Neven Bertičević, one of the Croatian best and more reliable sports journalists.
But he also wrote that Dražen had many more lucrative Euro offers (some hoped that his first years of struggle would make him come back, but Draž never backed away from the challenge), Greeks included, but was generally undecided where he would go next. Dražen wanted to finish Euro qualifiers '93 and then take a few weeks of rest before deciding.
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Re: Poll: Best international player of all time
« Reply #76 on: March 18, 2020, 08:15:03 AM »

Offline Jvalin

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Love the Drazen vs Sabonis debate! Personally speaking, I don't think there is a right answer in these conversations. I mean, it's as if having to choose between Jordan and Wilt. No matter whom you like the most, you can't go wrong with either one of them.

Drazen is a basketball legend. It felt really weird that he had gotten no votes so far in the poll.

Re: Poll: Best international player of all time
« Reply #77 on: March 18, 2020, 09:03:15 AM »

Offline ederson

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Love the Drazen vs Sabonis debate! Personally speaking, I don't think there is a right answer in these conversations. I mean, it's as if having to choose between Jordan and Wilt. No matter whom you like the most, you can't go wrong with either one of them.

Drazen is a basketball legend. It felt really weird that he had gotten no votes so far in the poll.

There is a point where you cannot clearly decide who's better. And tbh i don't care who is goat.

During my lifetime they are the best non American raised basketball players and i am sad that one way or another i didn't see them reach their full potential

Re: Poll: Best international player of all time
« Reply #78 on: March 18, 2020, 09:35:20 AM »

Offline Who

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I don't see Drazen being in the conversation. He was a lethal shooter and scorer but a disinterested defender & rebounder with so-so athleticism and average handles & passing. Just not well rounded enough as a basketball player to compete with the likes of Hakeem or Dirk or Sabonis.

Drazen is the next level down alongside guys like Tony Parker.
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Re: Poll: Best international player of all time
« Reply #79 on: March 18, 2020, 09:46:22 AM »

Online gouki88

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I don't see Drazen being in the conversation. He was a lethal shooter and scorer but a disinterested defender & rebounder with so-so athleticism and average handles & passing. Just not well rounded enough as a basketball player to compete with the likes of Hakeem or Dirk or Sabonis.

Drazen is the next level down alongside guys like Tony Parker.
This is where I'm at too. I don't see Drazen as being much better than Ginobili, if at all. He was nearly 29 when he tragically passed, and at that stage was a pretty solid 21/3/3 guy in the NBA with amazing shooting. But shooting and scoring were his only really strong skills.

Re: Poll: Best international player of all time
« Reply #80 on: March 18, 2020, 10:34:02 AM »

Offline Somebody

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I don't see Drazen being in the conversation. He was a lethal shooter and scorer but a disinterested defender & rebounder with so-so athleticism and average handles & passing. Just not well rounded enough as a basketball player to compete with the likes of Hakeem or Dirk or Sabonis.

Drazen is the next level down alongside guys like Tony Parker.
This is where I'm at too. I don't see Drazen as being much better than Ginobili, if at all. He was nearly 29 when he tragically passed, and at that stage was a pretty solid 21/3/3 guy in the NBA with amazing shooting. But shooting and scoring were his only really strong skills.
Ginobili was considerably better than Drazen imo, I think you can make an argument for him being a fringe MVP-calibre player during his peak years.
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Re: Poll: Best international player of all time
« Reply #81 on: March 18, 2020, 10:44:51 AM »

Online gouki88

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I don't see Drazen being in the conversation. He was a lethal shooter and scorer but a disinterested defender & rebounder with so-so athleticism and average handles & passing. Just not well rounded enough as a basketball player to compete with the likes of Hakeem or Dirk or Sabonis.

Drazen is the next level down alongside guys like Tony Parker.
This is where I'm at too. I don't see Drazen as being much better than Ginobili, if at all. He was nearly 29 when he tragically passed, and at that stage was a pretty solid 21/3/3 guy in the NBA with amazing shooting. But shooting and scoring were his only really strong skills.
Ginobili was considerably better than Drazen imo, I think you can make an argument for him being a fringe MVP-calibre player during his peak years.
That's probably fair. I definitely didn't see enough of Drazen to properly take part in this, especially his Europe ball, but if Manu wasn't such a team-first guy he could have put up crazy numbers on a different team

Re: Poll: Best international player of all time
« Reply #82 on: March 18, 2020, 10:48:27 AM »

Offline moiso

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It's hard to rank Petrovic because I don't think we ever saw his peak.  Yes, he was 29 when he died but he was still improving.  A Euro guard like that wasn't really the norm at that time and it took a long time for him to earn a large role which never stopped growing larger.  I think he could have been a Ray Allen level player, and I bet most people would rank Allen ahead of Ginobili and Parker.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2020, 10:54:39 AM by moiso »

Re: Poll: Best international player of all time
« Reply #83 on: March 18, 2020, 11:19:27 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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For those who don't know Oscar Schmidt it was his performance against American college players like David Robinson and Danny Manning in the 1987 Pan American Games in the US against Team USA that was probably THE reason to start the Dream Team and begin to include NBA players  on Team USA in the Olympics and all international competitions.

Schmidt's team was supposed to lose huge and was in the game at halftime with Schmidt putting up 11 at halftime. He then did what he did his whole career and became on fire in the 2nd half putting up 35 points in the half to beat Team USA in America, an unheard of accomplishment.

Schmidt was an elite outside shooter that shot volume 3 pointers in an era where if you took 3 threes a game that was a lot. In that game against Team USA he scored 46 points on 7-15 shooting from three.

7-15 from three. In 1987. Basketball like that in the USA didn't happen. Team USA losing at international competitions didn't happen. This loss raised huge concerns about having college kids play in the Olympics.

Then in 1988 America lost to the Soviets and got just a bronze medal. This, alongside Schmidt's torching of Team USA the year prior created the Dream Team 
During the knockout round in those 1988 Olympics, the team that gave the Soviets their toughest game wasn't the Americans. It was Schmidt and the Brazilians when Schmidt dropped 41 on the gold medal winning team in the first round of the knockout round. Schmidt in that 8 game Olympic run averaged 42 points and 8 rebounds a game.

That Schmidt has gotten no love in the poll but massively inferior players have astounds me.

« Last Edit: March 18, 2020, 07:30:25 PM by nickagneta »

Re: Poll: Best international player of all time
« Reply #84 on: March 18, 2020, 12:05:13 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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For those who don't know Oscar Schmidt it was his performance against American college players like David Robinson and Danny Manning in the 1987 Pan American Games in the US against Team USA that was probably THE reason to start the Dream Team and begin to include NBA players  on Team USA in the Olympics and all international competitions.

Schmidt's team was supposed to lose huge and was in the game at halftime with Schmidt putting up 11 at halftime. He then did what he did his whole career and became on fire in the 2nd half putting up 35 points in the half to beat Team USA in America, an unheard of accomplishment.

Schmidt was an elite outside shooter that shot volume 3 pointers in an era where if you took 3 threes a game that was a lot. In that game against Team USA he scored 46 points on 7-15 shooting from three.

7-15 from three. In 1987. Basketball like that in the USA didn't happen. Team USA losing at international competitions didn't happen. This loss raised huge concerns about having college kids play in the Olympics.

Then in 1988 America lost to the Soviets and got just a bronze medal. This, alongside Schmidt's torching of Team USA the year prior created the Dream Team 
During the knockout round in those 1988 Olympics, the team that gave the Soviets their toughest game wasn't the Americans. It was Schmidt and the Brazilians when Schmidt dropped 41 on the gold medal winning team in the first round of the knockout round. Schmidt in that 8 game Olympic run averaged 42 points and 8 rebounds a game.

That Schmidt has gotten no love in the poll but massively inferior players have astounds me.

You and I clearly have very similar memories of international basketball during the 80s & 90s because again, I totally agree with your take.

Schmidt would have been my second choice behind Arvydas.  I can understand folks picking Hakeem due to his being more familiar to them, but I can't understand any of the other choices being taken over Oscar.

I have vivid memories of his dismantling of Team USA.

Mind you, Oscar was just so annoying to play against, he was the kind of player you just hated on the other team.  Reminded me of Ric Barry.   But, like with Barry, the reason you hated him because he was just so [dang] good.   And he was inspirational to Brazillian fans.  Never quit.  Never blinked.  Didn't give an inch to the supposedly superior Team USA.  Just shot dagger after dagger.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2020, 07:30:03 PM by nickagneta »
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Re: Poll: Best international player of all time
« Reply #85 on: March 18, 2020, 12:46:56 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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For those who don't know Oscar Schmidt it was his performance against American college players like David Robinson and Danny Manning in the 1987 Pan American Games in the US against Team USA that was probably THE reason to start the Dream Team and begin to include NBA players  on Team USA in the Olympics and all international competitions.

Schmidt's team was supposed to lose huge and was in the game at halftime with Schmidt putting up 11 at halftime. He then did what he did his whole career and became on fire in the 2nd half putting up 35 points in the half to beat Team USA in America, an unheard of accomplishment.

Schmidt was an elite outside shooter that shot volume 3 pointers in an era where if you took 3 threes a game that was a lot. In that game against Team USA he scored 46 points on 7-15 shooting from three.

7-15 from three. In 1987. Basketball like that in the USA didn't happen. Team USA losing at international competitions didn't happen. This loss raised huge concerns about having college kids play in the Olympics.

Then in 1988 America lost to the Soviets and got just a bronze medal. This, alongside Schmidt's torching of Team USA the year prior created the Dream Team 
During the knockout round in those 1988 Olympics, the team that gave the Soviets their toughest game wasn't the Americans. It was Schmidt and the Brazilians when Schmidt dropped 41 on the gold medal winning team in the first round of the knockout round. Schmidt in that 8 game Olympic run averaged 42 points and 8 rebounds a game.

That Schmidt has gotten no love in the poll but massively inferior players have astounds me.

You and I clearly have very similar memories of international basketball during the 80s & 90s because again, I totally agree with your take.

Schmidt would have been my second choice behind Arvydas.  I can understand folks picking Hakeem due to his being more familiar to them, but I can't understand any of the other choices being taken over Oscar.

I have vivid memories of his dismantling of Team USA.

Mind you, Oscar was just so annoying to play against, he was the kind of player you just hated on the other team.  Reminded me of Ric Barry.   But, like with Barry, the reason you hated him because he was just so [dang] good.   And he was inspirational to Brazillian fans.  Never quit.  Never blinked.  Didn't give an inch to the supposedly superior Team USA.  Just shot dagger after dagger.
I didn't see the whole game until years later but man, I watched the extended highlights on ESPN for a couple days when it happened. I distinctly remember the commentators making a huge deal about his shooting and hitting so many threes. And clutch. Man the timing of his points killed Team USA.

And in the highlights his stroke was so pure. Dude was Curry-like in his complete lack of fear to shoot deep and hit deep at an elite level. But 30 years earlier. His movements on the floor were so fluid, smooth. Kinda Ray Allen like.

Guy is a sport of basketball, all-time great.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2020, 07:29:40 PM by nickagneta »

Re: Poll: Best international player of all time
« Reply #86 on: March 18, 2020, 02:05:54 PM »

Offline tstorey_97

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Excuse me, but how do I vote for Daniel Theis?

Re: Poll: Best international player of all time
« Reply #87 on: March 18, 2020, 07:17:50 PM »

Online gouki88

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For those who don't know Oscar Schmidt it was his performance against American college players like David Robinson and Danny Manning in the 1987 Pan American Games in the US against Team USA that was probably THE reason to start the Dream Team and begin to include NBA players  on Team USA in the Olympics and all international competitions.

Schmidt's team was supposed to lose huge and was in the game at halftime with Schmidt putting up 11 at halftime. He then did what he did his whole career and became on fire in the 2nd half putting up 35 points in the half to beat Team USA in America, an unheard of accomplishment.

Schmidt was an elite outside shooter that shot volume 3 pointers in an era where if you took 3 threes a game that was a lot. In that game against Team USA he scored 46 points on 7-15 shooting from three.

7-15 from three. In 1987. Basketball like that in the USA didn't happen. Team USA losing at international competitions didn't happen. This loss raised huge concerns about having college kids play in the Olympics.

Then in 1988 America lost to the Soviets and got just a bronze medal. This, alongside Schmidt's torching of Team USA the year prior created the Dream Team 
During the knockout round in those 1988 Olympics, the team that gave the Soviets their toughest game wasn't the Americans. It was Schmidt and the Brazilians when Schmidt dropped 41 on the gold medal winning team in the first round of the knockout round. Schmidt in that 8 game Olympic run averaged 42 points and 8 rebounds a game.

That Schmidt has gotten no love in the poll but massively inferior players have astounds me.
Joel Embiid getting a vote ahead of Schmidt is simply mind-boggling. He’s not even a top 3 international player right now!
« Last Edit: March 18, 2020, 07:29:12 PM by nickagneta »

Re: Poll: Best international player of all time
« Reply #88 on: March 19, 2020, 07:43:55 AM »

Offline ederson

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I feel the same about Doncic getting votes. I do think he will end up very high in the GOAT discussion but so far he hasn't all that much.

Even for Giannis i have doubts. For both we imagine they will keep their focus and improve ... But there a things out of their control...... Remember Brandon Roy?

Re: Poll: Best international player of all time
« Reply #89 on: March 19, 2020, 01:00:59 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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The correct answer is Dino Radja.