Poll

Who's the best international player of all time? (players in alphabetical order)

Giannis Antetokounmpo
7 (11.7%)
Vlade Divac
0 (0%)
Luka Doncic
2 (3.3%)
Joel Embiid
1 (1.7%)
Pau Gasol
0 (0%)
Manu Ginobili
1 (1.7%)
Rudy Gobert
0 (0%)
Nikola Jokic
0 (0%)
Sarunas Marciulionis
0 (0%)
Yao Ming
2 (3.3%)
Dikembe Mutombo
0 (0%)
Steve Nash
5 (8.3%)
Dirk Nowitzki
8 (13.3%)
Hakeem Olajuwon
23 (38.3%)
Tony Parker
0 (0%)
Drazen Petrovic
1 (1.7%)
Kristaps Porzingis
0 (0%)
Arvydas Sabonis
9 (15%)
Oscar Schmidt
0 (0%)
Pascal Siakam
0 (0%)
Ben Simmons
0 (0%)
Peja Stojakovic
0 (0%)
Karl-Anthony Towns
0 (0%)
other (please name below)
1 (1.7%)

Total Members Voted: 60

Author Topic: Poll: Best international player of all time  (Read 9551 times)

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Re: Poll: Best international player of all time
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2020, 11:14:41 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Steve Nash has to figure somewhere on the top 5, I think.  Back to back MVP's is nothing to sneeze at.

Re: Poll: Best international player of all time
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2020, 11:23:35 PM »

Offline BASS_THUMPER

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*sippin*
a lil bit

Re: Poll: Best international player of all time
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2020, 07:52:40 AM »

Offline Jvalin

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Looking that list over, am I the only one that believes you can get a championship roster out of it?

C - Hakeem
PF - Dirk
SF -
SG - Drazen
PG - Luka

C - Arvydas
PF - Greek Freak
SF -
SG -
PG - Simmons

2 solid Championship-level rosters, maybe?

I haven't even included the Gasols....
A championship roster? You are setting the bar way too low. I bet this team would have given the dream team a run for their money!

Luka
Drazen
Oscar
Dirk
Dream

It's not just the talent pool. The fit would have been amazing as well.

- Luka running the point
- Three knock down shooters next to him in Drazen-Oscar-Dirk
- Dream playing anchoring D + running the show in the paint.

Personally speaking, I'd probably take prime Sabas over prime Dream, but that's just me.

The second team would have been supremely talented as well.

Nash
Manu
Peja
Giannis
Sabas

- Two of the highest basketball IQ players of all time in Manu and Sabas.
- Two elite shooters in Nash-Peja.
- Four willing passers (to say the least) in Nash-Manu-Giannis-Sabas
- Sabas playing Point Center
- Giannis playing Point Forward

Just an amazing team no matter the way you look at it.

Re: Poll: Best international player of all time
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2020, 10:47:35 AM »

Offline GreenShooter

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I voted Hakeem. I couldn't pick any active players that have yet to accomplish enough to be considered.
That's a great list.
I love a starting five of Hakeem, Sabonis (in his Russian prime years), Dirk, Nash and Marciulionis (he was really coming into his own until the injury. He also played on a team with Chris Mullin, Tim Hardaway and Billy Owens. No wonder he shot around 54% from the field. He's really underrated).

Re: Poll: Best international player of all time
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2020, 02:21:55 PM »

Offline ederson

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Galis and Kukoc should be in the list

Regarding Euros in 2013 the players voted Drazen as the GOAT.


« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 02:29:26 PM by ederson »

Drazen Vs Schmidt
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2020, 02:28:15 PM »

Offline ederson

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Both players are mentioned in the thread about the best non American player and coincidentally 31 years ,14/3/1989 , they faced each other in Athens in the european cup winners final. Drazen with Real Madrid and Oscar with Caserta. The game went to overtime and Real won 117-113 and was one of the last games in Europe for Petrovic, at the end of the season signed his first NBA contract

Drazen scored 62 points and Oscar 44

The quality is bad but
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=36&v=9Ut0dJJW34s&feature=emb_title

Re: Poll: Best international player of all time
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2020, 02:50:23 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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Galis and Kukoc should be in the list

Regarding Euros in 2013 the players voted Drazen as the GOAT.
Fair enough. They are both in the honorable mentions.

Galis is a living legend in Greece (btw, he was drafted by the Celtics in 1979). Having said that, imo Drazen > Galis. I probably should have included Kukoc, but I opted for Peja cause his game would have translated better in the modern NBA. I mean, he was an elite shooter averaging 40.1% from 3 in 5.5 attempts per game. Can't possibly include everybody. This is exactly why I made an extensive honorable mention list at the end of the OP.

Re: Poll: Best international player of all time
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2020, 03:12:28 PM »

Offline ederson

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Fair points.. Tbh neither is imho the non American goat but still were very important not be be mentioned.

Galis was the only other European player Drazen respected. I agree that Petrovic was a better player but top form Galis was scary.

Quote
I probably should have included Kukoc, but I opted for Peja cause his game would have translated better in the modern NBA.

Here though I have to disagree. Since the discussion is the best ever non American player, it shouldn't matter the fit to the NBA and especially to a specific era. Peja was an amazing sniper, I had the pleasure of watching him till he crossed the Atlantic, but that was it. Kukoc made Europe watch him and Yugoplastica in awe. As a teenager was more even impressive than Doncic. He was a 7ft pg 30 years before it became a trend.

Re: Poll: Best international player of all time
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2020, 04:05:41 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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Fair points.. Tbh neither is imho the non American goat but still were very important not be be mentioned.

Galis was the only other European player Drazen respected. I agree that Petrovic was a better player but top form Galis was scary.

Quote
I probably should have included Kukoc, but I opted for Peja cause his game would have translated better in the modern NBA.

Here though I have to disagree. Since the discussion is the best ever non American player, it shouldn't matter the fit to the NBA and especially to a specific era. Peja was an amazing sniper, I had the pleasure of watching him till he crossed the Atlantic, but that was it. Kukoc made Europe watch him and Yugoplastica in awe. As a teenager was more even impressive than Doncic. He was a 7ft pg 30 years before it became a trend.

I grew up in Greece too, like you did. I remember Peja's buzzer beater against Olympiakos in the semi-finals of the Greek League as if it was yesterday. I bet every single basketball fan in Greece has watched a video of this shot. Even those who weren't alive at the time. 

(Timestamp doesn't work. Just go to 7:48 of the video)


You are right, I should have included Kukoc instead of Peja. Kukoc was hands down the better all around player. Peja was hands down the better shooter. But then again, I grew up watching Peja. When I was a kid, he was one my favourite players. Fwiw, he was also 4th in MVP voting for the 2003-2004 NBA season, averaging 24.2 points on a 48/43.3/92.7 shooting split (while attempting 6.8 threes per game). It's possible that he would have been averaging +30 points per game in today's game. At the end of the day, both Kukoc and Peja were great players.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 06:45:11 PM by Jvalin »

Re: Poll: Best international player of all time
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2020, 07:12:46 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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You really could just limit the voting to Sabonis, Schmidt, Dirk and Hakeem. I don't see that anyone else is really in the discussion at this point, though Luka and Giannis might eventually be added to that list.

Weirdly enough, Pau might be the most successful international player but not in the discussion as best overall.

I very much agree with this take.  It really is between those guys and maybe a run-off vote should be considered.   I also agree that Luka and Giannis may very well work themselves into the conversation.

Personally, I'm voting Arvydas.   He was just a monster with a delicate touch and incredible basketball IQ.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Poll: Best international player of all time
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2020, 07:30:19 PM »

Offline liam

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You really could just limit the voting to Sabonis, Schmidt, Dirk and Hakeem. I don't see that anyone else is really in the discussion at this point, though Luka and Giannis might eventually be added to that list.

Weirdly enough, Pau might be the most successful international player but not in the discussion as best overall.

I very much agree with this take.  It really is between those guys and maybe a run-off vote should be considered.   I also agree that Luka and Giannis may very well work themselves into the conversation.

Personally, I'm voting Arvydas.   He was just a monster with a delicate touch and incredible basketball IQ.

Sabonis was a 7'3" Larry Bird who made Shaq look small when he finally came to the NBA far past his prime.

Re: Poll: Best international player of all time
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2020, 08:08:22 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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I love Hakeem but did he ever compete internationally?

I know Arvydas did...boy did he..

IMO he is hands down the best...

If he was EVER let loose to come to the NBA in the 80s...wow.

Off topic but put him on my All-Time best passers at their position list:

C - Arvydas
F - LeBron
F - Larry
SG - Hondo
PG - Magic

Ball movement is DIZZYING from every position in this lineup. Would it work as a competitive team? I bet it could - even in TODAY's NBA....
« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 08:39:43 PM by GreenFaith1819 »
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Re: Poll: Best international player of all time
« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2020, 08:27:26 PM »

Online gouki88

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I love Hakeem but did he ever compete internationally?

I know Arvydas did...boy did he..

IMO he is hands down the best...

If he was EVER let loose to come to the NBA in the 80s...wow.

Off topic but put him on my All-Time best passers at their position list:

C - Arvydas
PF - Walton?
SF - Larry
SG - Hondo
PG - Magic

Ball movement is DIZZYING from every position in this lineup. Would it work as a competitive team? I bet it could - even in TODAY's NBA....
I feel like Larry and LeBron would hold down those two forward spots (for me personally)

Re: Poll: Best international player of all time
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2020, 08:29:21 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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You really could just limit the voting to Sabonis, Schmidt, Dirk and Hakeem. I don't see that anyone else is really in the discussion at this point, though Luka and Giannis might eventually be added to that list.

Weirdly enough, Pau might be the most successful international player but not in the discussion as best overall.

I very much agree with this take.  It really is between those guys and maybe a run-off vote should be considered.   I also agree that Luka and Giannis may very well work themselves into the conversation.

Personally, I'm voting Arvydas.   He was just a monster with a delicate touch and incredible basketball IQ.

Sabonis was a 7'3" Larry Bird who made Shaq look small when he finally came to the NBA far past his prime.

Kids today who never saw Sabonis play live -- and the few vids out there just don't do him justice -- really have no idea just how amazing he was.

The comparisons to Bird aren't just hyperbole.  Like Bird, Arvydas could score from literally anywhere on the court.  He would launch a pull-up three from 6 feet outside the arc on one play, drive through the paint for a dunk on the next and then on the next play post-up some poor sap, making his victim look like a helpless child.  And then, on the next play, he'd make some pass that no one else saw, leading to a score by a teammate.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Poll: Best international player of all time
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2020, 08:38:57 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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I love Hakeem but did he ever compete internationally?

I know Arvydas did...boy did he..

IMO he is hands down the best...

If he was EVER let loose to come to the NBA in the 80s...wow.

Off topic but put him on my All-Time best passers at their position list:

C - Arvydas
PF - Walton?
SF - Larry
SG - Hondo
PG - Magic

Ball movement is DIZZYING from every position in this lineup. Would it work as a competitive team? I bet it could - even in TODAY's NBA....
I feel like Larry and LeBron would hold down those two forward spots (for me personally)

That is a GREAT point....especially in today's NBA.

Just edited my post.
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