The Case for Trading Gordon Hayward (Hear Me Out)

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Yikes! People are insisting Kanter >= Drummond?

Look, I get the whole overrating your own but really? Makes me think that if we had drafted Wiggins, people here would balk at trading Wiggins for Tatum.

Not seriously - pretty obvious tongue in cheek. But Kanter for $5m without having to trade anything is better than Drummond for 5 times that, where we’d have to trade our most well-rounder offensive player.

But I don’t even see the arguments talking about salary. I’m seeing the whole “we don’t need Drummond because Kanter is just as good, if not even better in limited minutes. Imagine what he could do with more!”

Like, there’s a reason Kanter doesn’t get huge minutes.

Well, we don’t need to needlessly give up Hayward for a guy that doesn’t offer much more than Kanter does (better defence, including rebounding, but less offensively talented) is probably what I would interpret as the argument.

Mmm, then it‘s sounding like my Wiggins-Tatum analogy then.

Tatum is clearly better, but someone drinking the kool aid (assuming Wiggins was drafted by the C’s and Tatum wasn’t) will say Tatum doesn’t offer much more than Wiggins (better defense, but less offensively efficient). Of course, we don’t think that now because Tatum is objectively a better player and a fan favorite.

Going off on a tangent, I mean, how many people on here were pushing hard for the C’s to sign or trade for Kemba in the past few years? What was the board’s general consensus on Kemba circa Dec/Jan 2019? How about late 2018? I imagine the popular opinion here was that he was a nice guy, a high volume scorer who doesn’t really know how to pass, a guy who needs the ball in his hands to be effective, and maybe someone who couldn’t they see as the best player on a championship squad. Probably a solid #2 guy

Anyway, I digress. Here’s an interesting POV which I haven’t seen get brought up: whose Bird rights would people rather have? Drummond or Hayward?

We’re paying Tatum next offseason, this is obvious. Hayward may or may not opt in. If he doesn’t, do we let Hayward walk (Horford-style) or do we pay Hayward big money? Should we lock ourselves into this fearsome foursome + Smart long term?

Psst. Even in this, Wiggins "premier" offensive year, look at the comparison:
Wiggins 23.6ppg, 5.2rpg, 3.3apg, 2.5 topg on 44/32/75 shooting splits.
Tatum 21.3ppg, 6.9rpg, 2.9apg, 2.1topg on 43/36/86 shooting splits.

Tatum is still growing as an offensive talent. Wiggins is pretty plateaued.

Tatum is a much better defender. Wiggins has taken a step forward, but he has yet to play a meaningful minute in the NBA and doesn't really contribute to winning. Tatum does.

[Who]

I would trade for Mitchell Robinson of the Knicks.  Celtics have plenty of late 1sts to offer in trade.  And he's a good defensive center but not much offense to his game.  Considering the Knicks nabbed him in round 2, they might be willing to get a return on that pick.  Salary matching is also pretty easy compared to trying to send Hayward out in a trade.

There are rumblings about his character, lack of work ethic, laziness. Not being committed enough. Enjoying the fame and fortune more than working on his game.

Doesn't sound like a guy who is going to make good on his talent.

He should be a future DPoY with that size and athleticism. It'll be a shame if he wastes this opportunity he has.

[ozgod]

Somehow , he needs to get healthy , where he can play at his peek level at a consistent level , not 2 games out of 10' .  We paid alot for a broken person.

He wasn't broken when we paid for him - we paid a lot for a person we then broke, is probably a more appropriate analogy. But end of day it doesn't matter who broke who, we have to fix him or see if we can fool someone else into taking him. I'm in favor of fixing him because I don't think we will get value for him more than he's giving us right now.

[SHAQATTACK]

Somehow , he needs to get healthy , where he can play at his peek level at a consistent level , not 2 games out of 10' .  We paid alot for a broken person.

He wasn't broken when we paid for him - we paid a lot for a person we then broke, is probably a more appropriate analogy. But end of day it doesn't matter who broke who, we have to fix him or see if we can fool someone else into taking him. I'm in favor of fixing him because I don't think we will get value for him more than he's giving us right now.

if we give him away , then he ll heal up on the Heat or Another team and go back to being a solid 20-10 guy for the next 8 years .  Haunt us for 10 years

Thats how i feel about KLove ,  he 'd stay healthy anywhere but Boston , as sure as he puts on a Boston uniform he ll have a acl or achilles injury . 

i guess i d just see if he can be signed on a lower deal

[NKY fan]

4 out of 7 voters are open to trade Hayward. That’s a big shift compared to the beginning of the season when just mentioning a Hayward trade gets you reprimanded by the majority in no time

[ozgod]

4 out of 7 voters are open to trade Hayward. That’s a big shift compared to the beginning of the season when just mentioning a Hayward trade gets you reprimanded by the majority in no time

That's because most of the Hayward trades at the start of the season were ridiculous and unrealistic for the most part 

[LilRip]

Yikes! People are insisting Kanter >= Drummond?

Look, I get the whole overrating your own but really? Makes me think that if we had drafted Wiggins, people here would balk at trading Wiggins for Tatum.

Not seriously - pretty obvious tongue in cheek. But Kanter for $5m without having to trade anything is better than Drummond for 5 times that, where we’d have to trade our most well-rounder offensive player.

But I don’t even see the arguments talking about salary. I’m seeing the whole “we don’t need Drummond because Kanter is just as good, if not even better in limited minutes. Imagine what he could do with more!”

Like, there’s a reason Kanter doesn’t get huge minutes.

Well, we don’t need to needlessly give up Hayward for a guy that doesn’t offer much more than Kanter does (better defence, including rebounding, but less offensively talented) is probably what I would interpret as the argument.

Mmm, then it‘s sounding like my Wiggins-Tatum analogy then.

Tatum is clearly better, but someone drinking the kool aid (assuming Wiggins was drafted by the C’s and Tatum wasn’t) will say Tatum doesn’t offer much more than Wiggins (better defense, but less offensively efficient). Of course, we don’t think that now because Tatum is objectively a better player and a fan favorite.

Going off on a tangent, I mean, how many people on here were pushing hard for the C’s to sign or trade for Kemba in the past few years? What was the board’s general consensus on Kemba circa Dec/Jan 2019? How about late 2018? I imagine the popular opinion here was that he was a nice guy, a high volume scorer who doesn’t really know how to pass, a guy who needs the ball in his hands to be effective, and maybe someone who couldn’t they see as the best player on a championship squad. Probably a solid #2 guy

Anyway, I digress. Here’s an interesting POV which I haven’t seen get brought up: whose Bird rights would people rather have? Drummond or Hayward?

We’re paying Tatum next offseason, this is obvious. Hayward may or may not opt in. If he doesn’t, do we let Hayward walk (Horford-style) or do we pay Hayward big money? Should we lock ourselves into this fearsome foursome + Smart long term?

Psst. Even in this, Wiggins "premier" offensive year, look at the comparison:
Wiggins 23.6ppg, 5.2rpg, 3.3apg, 2.5 topg on 44/32/75 shooting splits.
Tatum 21.3ppg, 6.9rpg, 2.9apg, 2.1topg on 43/36/86 shooting splits.

Tatum is still growing as an offensive talent. Wiggins is pretty plateaued.

Tatum is a much better defender. Wiggins has taken a step forward, but he has yet to play a meaningful minute in the NBA and doesn't really contribute to winning. Tatum does.

In this hypothetical, here’s what would have been different:
1. Wiggins is a Celtic, which means there’s no way anyone here would think he has plateaued at 23/24 years old
2.  Tatum wouldn’t have been a Celtic, and if he ended up let’s say in a place like Detroit, we would be saying he hasn’t played a “meaningful minute in the NBA” either.

My point in this comparison is that:
1) Tatum is clearly better than Wiggins even if statistically, it looks close.
2) Drummond is clearly better than Kanter and yet people here seem quite insistent that since statistically they look close (enough), then they must be similar players.

[jambr380]

4 out of 7 voters are open to trade Hayward. That’s a big shift compared to the beginning of the season when just mentioning a Hayward trade gets you reprimanded by the majority in no time

That's because most of the Hayward trades at the start of the season were ridiculous and unrealistic for the most part 

Yeah, I mean the vast majority of people who would trade him would only do so for a good return. So far, people don't even generally think guys like Drummond, Adams, T. Thompson, or Love are a good enough return so it is probably safe to say that most people would rather keep him and see how things play out.

[NKY fan]

4 out of 7 voters are open to trade Hayward. That’s a big shift compared to the beginning of the season when just mentioning a Hayward trade gets you reprimanded by the majority in no time

That's because most of the Hayward trades at the start of the season were ridiculous and unrealistic for the most part 

Yeah, I mean the vast majority of people who would trade him would only do so for a good return. So far, people don't even generally think guys like Drummond, Adams, T. Thompson, Love are a good enough return so it is probably safe to say that most people would rather keep him and see how things play out.

Well every time I proposed a ridiculous Hayward trade I had unprotected picks coming our way way into the future lol

[flybono]

He is not even close to the player he was in Utah before and after the injury

Plays slow with no elevation at the rim and is not the shooter he was once was

Get what you can for salary relief

The player is done

[gouki88]

He is not even close to the player he was in Utah before and after the injury

Plays slow with no elevation at the rim and is not the shooter he was once was

Get what you can for salary relief

The player is done

You realise this is his most efficient season scoring the ball?

Not to mention his passing is at its best for his career. Turning it over much less than he did at Utah while maintaining similar assist averages.

If you’re going to rail on him at least make it not so easy to refute

[JBcat]

Because of his contract situation his value may be even lower than it should be.  I’d play this year out, re-sign him in the offseason to a multi year deal, and can revisit trading him in the future if you want.  Plus Theis and Kanter are holding their own at center and we’ll get Robert Williams back at some point.

[drooldaddy]

I look at Gordon this way, is he producing like a max contract guy.
The answer to me is no and I don’t see hope of that in the future .
So I would certainly be looking to trade him.I feel sorry that the injury took some of his game away. But that’s sports.
I’d do Drummond deal straight up. If Drummond walks at years end hopefully it frees up some cap

[flybono]

He is not even close to the player he was in Utah before and after the injury

Plays slow with no elevation at the rim and is not the shooter he was once was

Get what you can for salary relief

The player is done

You realise this is his most efficient season scoring the ball?

Not to mention his passing is at its best for his career. Turning it over much less than he did at Utah while maintaining similar assist averages.

If you’re going to rail on him at least make it not so easy to refute

Stats don’t tell us anything

The eye test says he is done!

Epic failure at all levels

Bye bye Gordy

[gouki88]

He is not even close to the player he was in Utah before and after the injury

Plays slow with no elevation at the rim and is not the shooter he was once was

Get what you can for salary relief

The player is done

You realise this is his most efficient season scoring the ball?

Not to mention his passing is at its best for his career. Turning it over much less than he did at Utah while maintaining similar assist averages.

If you’re going to rail on him at least make it not so easy to refute

Stats don’t tell us anything

The eye test says he is done!

Epic failure at all levels

Bye bye Gordy

I guess your eye test being the be-all and end-all of talent assessment is why you’re an NBA GM!