The Case for Trading Gordon Hayward (Hear Me Out)

[Fierce1]

Just for funzies:

Boston receives: Adams, Roberson
Denver receives: Paul, Hayward
OKC receives: Milsap, Barton, Harris, Porter Jr., 2020 Bucks 1st

Denver can run Jokic with Paul, Hayward, Murray, and Grant. That's a highly intelligent team on both sides of the court.

OKC sets up a new young due with Shai and Porter Jr., and pairs them with really good role players in Barton and Harris. They also get salary relief with Milsap's expiring.

Boston gets a little salary relief with Roberson's expiring and gets better roster balance with a center that can truly make his teammates better (and has been doing it his entire career).

Celts can get more for Hayward.

That's just too low of a return for Hayward.

Perhaps. Your trade (before it was edited) included a lottery pick to get Drummond.

I'm not sure the difference between Drummond and Adams is a lottery pick. In fact, I'd rather have Adams, especially because he has another year on his contract. Drummond is an expiring.

Rose doesn't add much to our team either. We already have too many ball-handlers.

The lottery pick is looking like top 10 at best.
I wouldn't trade it if it was top 7 or top 8.
But Celts really don't need another top 10 or top 14 pick right now.

Drummond is a better offensive player than Adams.

And replacing Wanamaker with Rose makes the bench better.

I don't agree that Drummond is a better offensive player than Adams. He is far more turnover prone (3.5 is a lot for a 17ppg guy). He makes a lot of dumb plays out there. The advanced stats have typically indicated Adams helps his team more than Drummond (although I'll admit teammates make a big difference there). I just don't think on this team there would be that big of a difference. I think Adams has a better feel for the game.

And again, Drummond is an expiring.

And you aren't replace Rose with Wanamaker--not directly. Part of the problem is that there are too many players all wanting to attack in different ways. Rose needs the ball too much on offense and adds nothing on defense or as a shooter. At least Wanamaker is a decently versatile defender.

I like Adams and Drummond, but I have to think drummond would be far less turnover prone when he’s not the only viable player on the team who’s also initiating the offense and doing a lot of playmaking. He can be a good passer and playmaker from the elbows but I have to imagine his usage in Boston would be far lower.

And Drummond has a higher ceiling because of his athletic ability and he's just 26 years old.

In fairness Steven Adams is also 26 years old.

I would be thrilled with either. The criticism on Drummond is unfair, he’s a rebounding beast with great size and athleticism. He’s an adequate playmaker and great finisher. Would be a fun pick n roll mate with Kemba. He has been less engaged and doesn’t look motivated.. well, Detroit stinks, whatever.

Adams is a bruising center who can finish, hit free throws, set mean picks and play his role impeccably. Underrated athlete, also young. Been with a winning team for years now.

Either of them would, IMO, change our outlook for the better. We’re toast in the playoffs against MIL or PHI without at least some interior presence. People will argue otherwise, and that’s fine, hope I’m wrong. That said, without Brown and Tatum playing like all-stars or close on a consistent basis, then we’re not ready yet anyway. Problem is PHI and MIL are not going anywhere either. Giannis and Embiid are only 25.

I think Philly is in trouble because they're also a flawed team.
They can beat Boston but they can't beat most of the other NBA teams.

Milwaukee is the only threat to Boston.

Giannis' lack of an outside shot will make the Bucks vulnerable in the playoffs.

If the Celts only had Baynes right now, I think the Celts can upset the Bucks in the playoffs.

Whether Drummond or Adams, I think the Celts will be better because the Celts will be more balanced and opposing teams will not be able to bully the Celts inside the paint.

So the Sixers have won all 3 games this season.  The last without Embiid.  They beat the Bucks in their only matchup and held Giannis to 18 pts on 27 shots.  But they are not a threat?  They're 25-14 overall and 10-9 against .500 or above teams.  But they can't beat most other teams?   Unlike past seasons, the Sixers aren't falling apart when Embiid isn't on court.  If Embiid is healthy, they certainly are a threat to make the finals. 

Really don't understand the Drummond love.  Embiid dominates him.  Drummond isn't going to keep Giannis out of the paint.

Then Steven Adams if you don't like Drummond.

What Drummond gives you is a lot of rebounds and scoring inside the paint.
Having Drummond will force opposing bigs to foul because Drummond is so big and he's so disruptive inside.

Sure, Drummond will not keep Giannis out of the paint, but it will expose Brook Lopez inside the paint.

Brook Lopez killed the Celts in last year's playoffs.

Having a guy like Drummond will put Lopez in foul trouble.

The point is if you have a guy like Drummond, the opposing bigs will have to play defense inside.
Right now what opposing teams are doing is leaving Theis open because they don't think he's an offensive threat.
They're even letting Theis shoot 3s.

[Fierce1]

Another game where all core 5 players of the Celts were healthy and playing.

But only 3 out of the 5 core 5 players had good games.

Tatum 41, Hayward, 19, and Kemba 17.

Brown was 4-15 from the field and Smart was just 1-4 in FGs.

That's why sacrificing Hayward or Smart for Drummond or Adams will make the Celts better and a more balanced team.

[Phantom255x]

Another game where all core 5 players of the Celts were healthy and playing.

But only 3 out of the 5 core 5 players had good games.

Tatum 41, Hayward, 19, and Kemba 17.

Brown was 4-15 from the field and Smart was just 1-4 in FGs.

That's why sacrificing Hayward or Smart for Drummond or Adams will make the Celts better and a more balanced team.

Kanter in just 23 minutes today put up 22/19. Imagine if he played 11 more minutes than that like Drummond does on average! 

[nickagneta]

Another game where all core 5 players of the Celts were healthy and playing.

But only 3 out of the 5 core 5 players had good games.

Tatum 41, Hayward, 19, and Kemba 17.

Brown was 4-15 from the field and Smart was just 1-4 in FGs.

That's why sacrificing Hayward or Smart for Drummond or Adams will make the Celts better and a more balanced team.

Yup, and we could trade that player for a big that could get 22/19 along with those other players.🤔🤨 Wait.....

[Fierce1]

Another game where all core 5 players of the Celts were healthy and playing.

But only 3 out of the 5 core 5 players had good games.

Tatum 41, Hayward, 19, and Kemba 17.

Brown was 4-15 from the field and Smart was just 1-4 in FGs.

That's why sacrificing Hayward or Smart for Drummond or Adams will make the Celts better and a more balanced team.

Kanter in just 23 minutes today put up 22/19. Imagine if he played 11 more minutes than that like Drummond does on average!

The problem with Kanter is his defense is so horrible.

That's the reason why he can't stay on the court.

Brad yanks him because he lets opposing guards shoot uncontested when he's forced to switch on the guards.

No doubt Kanter is very good on offense and one of the best rebounders in the league, but he's so horrible on defense that the coach will have no choice but to limit his minutes.

If you don't like Drummond then Steven Adams.

The point is to make the Celts better and more balanced, one of Smart or Hayward has to be sacrificed.

Nothing wrong if the Celts get Drummond or Adams then Kanter remains the backup.

The Blazers already tried using Kanter as the #1 Center in last season's playoffs.
Steph Curry ended up averaging 36.5 ppg in the western conference finals.
Kanter was put in the pick and roll with Curry and Curry torched him every time.

[Fierce1]

Another game where all core 5 players of the Celts were healthy and playing.

But only 3 out of the 5 core 5 players had good games.

Tatum 41, Hayward, 19, and Kemba 17.

Brown was 4-15 from the field and Smart was just 1-4 in FGs.

That's why sacrificing Hayward or Smart for Drummond or Adams will make the Celts better and a more balanced team.

Yup, and we could trade that player for a big that could get 22/19 along with those other players.🤔🤨 Wait.....

Come on, nick, we all know Kanter's a very good offensive player and rebounder.

It's Kanter's defense that's a problem.

Kanter only played 17 minutes against Philly.

Is Brad Stevens really that stupid for not using Kanter more?

Kanter was allowing the Sixer guards and wings to score, that's why Brad had to yank him.

[NKY fan]

Another game where all core 5 players of the Celts were healthy and playing.

But only 3 out of the 5 core 5 players had good games.

Tatum 41, Hayward, 19, and Kemba 17.

Brown was 4-15 from the field and Smart was just 1-4 in FGs.

That's why sacrificing Hayward or Smart for Drummond or Adams will make the Celts better and a more balanced team.

Kanter in just 23 minutes today put up 22/19. Imagine if he played 11 more minutes than that like Drummond does on average!

The problem with Kanter is his defense is so horrible.

That's the reason why he can't stay on the court.

Brad yanks him because he lets opposing guards shoot uncontested when he's forced to switch on the guards.

No doubt Kanter is very good on offense and one of the best rebounders in the league, but he's so horrible on defense that the coach will have no choice but to limit his minutes.

If you don't like Drummond then Steven Adams.

The point is to make the Celts better and more balanced, one of Smart or Hayward has to be sacrificed.

Nothing wrong if the Celts get Drummond or Adams then Kanter remains the backup.

The Blazers already tried using Kanter as the #1 Center in last season's playoffs.
Steph Curry ended up averaging 36.5 ppg in the western conference finals.
Kanter was put in the pick and roll with Curry and Curry torched him every time.

Fierce ,
I’m pro trades in general but I think you keep repeating the same things over and over . Everyone is aware of your center trade ideas and support for them by now.
Come up with something new 🤷🏻‍♂️

[slamtheking]

Another game where all core 5 players of the Celts were healthy and playing.

But only 3 out of the 5 core 5 players had good games.

Tatum 41, Hayward, 19, and Kemba 17.

Brown was 4-15 from the field and Smart was just 1-4 in FGs.

That's why sacrificing Hayward or Smart for Drummond or Adams will make the Celts better and a more balanced team.

Kanter in just 23 minutes today put up 22/19. Imagine if he played 11 more minutes than that like Drummond does on average! 

exactly, nothing like continuing to beat that dead horse for a big man.  the argument that Hayward having a good night is a reason to trade him is mind boggling.  if anything, the shooting tonight shows why the C's need depth at the wing with guys that get hot and carry an offense for stretches. 

doesn't hurt that Kanter was a monster on the boards and scoring down low.

[Fierce1]

Another game where all core 5 players of the Celts were healthy and playing.

But only 3 out of the 5 core 5 players had good games.

Tatum 41, Hayward, 19, and Kemba 17.

Brown was 4-15 from the field and Smart was just 1-4 in FGs.

That's why sacrificing Hayward or Smart for Drummond or Adams will make the Celts better and a more balanced team.

Kanter in just 23 minutes today put up 22/19. Imagine if he played 11 more minutes than that like Drummond does on average! 

exactly, nothing like continuing to beat that dead horse for a big man.  the argument that Hayward having a good night is a reason to trade him is mind boggling.  if anything, the shooting tonight shows why the C's need depth at the wing with guys that get hot and carry an offense for stretches. 

doesn't hurt that Kanter was a monster on the boards and scoring down low.

There must be a reason why Kanter can't get more minutes when Celts are playing good teams, right?

[Phantom255x]

Another game where all core 5 players of the Celts were healthy and playing.

But only 3 out of the 5 core 5 players had good games.

Tatum 41, Hayward, 19, and Kemba 17.

Brown was 4-15 from the field and Smart was just 1-4 in FGs.

That's why sacrificing Hayward or Smart for Drummond or Adams will make the Celts better and a more balanced team.

Kanter in just 23 minutes today put up 22/19. Imagine if he played 11 more minutes than that like Drummond does on average! 

exactly, nothing like continuing to beat that dead horse for a big man.  the argument that Hayward having a good night is a reason to trade him is mind boggling.  if anything, the shooting tonight shows why the C's need depth at the wing with guys that get hot and carry an offense for stretches. 

doesn't hurt that Kanter was a monster on the boards and scoring down low.

There must be a reason why Kanter can't get more minutes when Celts are playing good teams, right?

Trust me man. Drummond would be playing similar minutes here too. His defense is slightly better than Kanter's, but he still gets killed against better bigs like Embiid, etc. 

[slamtheking]

Another game where all core 5 players of the Celts were healthy and playing.

But only 3 out of the 5 core 5 players had good games.

Tatum 41, Hayward, 19, and Kemba 17.

Brown was 4-15 from the field and Smart was just 1-4 in FGs.

That's why sacrificing Hayward or Smart for Drummond or Adams will make the Celts better and a more balanced team.

Kanter in just 23 minutes today put up 22/19. Imagine if he played 11 more minutes than that like Drummond does on average! 

exactly, nothing like continuing to beat that dead horse for a big man.  the argument that Hayward having a good night is a reason to trade him is mind boggling.  if anything, the shooting tonight shows why the C's need depth at the wing with guys that get hot and carry an offense for stretches. 

doesn't hurt that Kanter was a monster on the boards and scoring down low.

There must be a reason why Kanter can't get more minutes when Celts are playing good teams, right?

Trust me man. Drummond would be playing similar minutes here too. His defense is slightly better than Kanter's, but he still gets killed against better bigs like Embiid, etc. 

agreed - Drummond isn't going to produce more than Kanter the way he's playing.

[gouki88]

Another game where all core 5 players of the Celts were healthy and playing.

But only 3 out of the 5 core 5 players had good games.

Tatum 41, Hayward, 19, and Kemba 17.

Brown was 4-15 from the field and Smart was just 1-4 in FGs.

That's why sacrificing Hayward or Smart for Drummond or Adams will make the Celts better and a more balanced team.

Kanter in just 23 minutes today put up 22/19. Imagine if he played 11 more minutes than that like Drummond does on average! 

exactly, nothing like continuing to beat that dead horse for a big man.  the argument that Hayward having a good night is a reason to trade him is mind boggling.  if anything, the shooting tonight shows why the C's need depth at the wing with guys that get hot and carry an offense for stretches. 

doesn't hurt that Kanter was a monster on the boards and scoring down low.

There must be a reason why Kanter can't get more minutes when Celts are playing good teams, right?

Yeah, coaching. Brad always favours those who know the system better (Theis).

Kanter doesn’t even have a negative DBPM, and our team defence is routinely fine with him on the floor.

[Fierce1]

Another game where all core 5 players of the Celts were healthy and playing.

But only 3 out of the 5 core 5 players had good games.

Tatum 41, Hayward, 19, and Kemba 17.

Brown was 4-15 from the field and Smart was just 1-4 in FGs.

That's why sacrificing Hayward or Smart for Drummond or Adams will make the Celts better and a more balanced team.

Kanter in just 23 minutes today put up 22/19. Imagine if he played 11 more minutes than that like Drummond does on average! 

exactly, nothing like continuing to beat that dead horse for a big man.  the argument that Hayward having a good night is a reason to trade him is mind boggling.  if anything, the shooting tonight shows why the C's need depth at the wing with guys that get hot and carry an offense for stretches. 

doesn't hurt that Kanter was a monster on the boards and scoring down low.

There must be a reason why Kanter can't get more minutes when Celts are playing good teams, right?

Yeah, coaching. Brad always favours those who know the system better (Theis).

Kanter doesn’t even have a negative DBPM, and our team defence is routinely fine with him on the floor.

The stats will not show what Kanter does on a pick and roll.

Those who watched the Celtic broadcast against the Spurs will remember Scalabrine saying Kanter should have closed the airspace on the shot that by Derrick White.

Kanter was forced to switch on White because the Spurs set a pick for him.
When White got off the pick and his defender, Wanamaker, was trying to get around the pick, White was open because Kanter didn't close in on White.
Wanamaker ended up fouling White when White was shooting a jumper.
White then completed the and 1 by making the FT.

Kanter's inability to defend the pick and roll and switches is keeping him off the court.

That has been Kanter's problem since he entered the league.

If Kanter's so good then why is he on his 5th team in 9 seasons?

[LilRip]

Yikes! People are insisting Kanter >= Drummond?

Look, I get the whole overrating your own but really? Makes me think that if we had drafted Wiggins, people here would balk at trading Wiggins for Tatum.

[NKY fan]

Instead of Drummond why don’t we try to get Tristan Thompson ? He has championship experience and is solid.. cavs might be showcasing him a little bit though