The Case for Trading Gordon Hayward (Hear Me Out)

[Fierce1]

Just for funzies:

Boston receives: Adams, Roberson
Denver receives: Paul, Hayward
OKC receives: Milsap, Barton, Harris, Porter Jr., 2020 Bucks 1st

Denver can run Jokic with Paul, Hayward, Murray, and Grant. That's a highly intelligent team on both sides of the court.

OKC sets up a new young due with Shai and Porter Jr., and pairs them with really good role players in Barton and Harris. They also get salary relief with Milsap's expiring.

Boston gets a little salary relief with Roberson's expiring and gets better roster balance with a center that can truly make his teammates better (and has been doing it his entire career).

Celts can get more for Hayward.

That's just too low of a return for Hayward.

Perhaps. Your trade (before it was edited) included a lottery pick to get Drummond.

I'm not sure the difference between Drummond and Adams is a lottery pick. In fact, I'd rather have Adams, especially because he has another year on his contract. Drummond is an expiring.

Rose doesn't add much to our team either. We already have too many ball-handlers.

The lottery pick is looking like top 10 at best.
I wouldn't trade it if it was top 7 or top 8.
But Celts really don't need another top 10 or top 14 pick right now.

Drummond is a better offensive player than Adams.

And replacing Wanamaker with Rose makes the bench better.

I don't agree that Drummond is a better offensive player than Adams. He is far more turnover prone (3.5 is a lot for a 17ppg guy). He makes a lot of dumb plays out there. The advanced stats have typically indicated Adams helps his team more than Drummond (although I'll admit teammates make a big difference there). I just don't think on this team there would be that big of a difference. I think Adams has a better feel for the game.

And again, Drummond is an expiring.

And you aren't replace Rose with Wanamaker--not directly. Part of the problem is that there are too many players all wanting to attack in different ways. Rose needs the ball too much on offense and adds nothing on defense or as a shooter. At least Wanamaker is a decently versatile defender.

I like Adams and Drummond, but I have to think drummond would be far less turnover prone when he’s not the only viable player on the team who’s also initiating the offense and doing a lot of playmaking. He can be a good passer and playmaker from the elbows but I have to imagine his usage in Boston would be far lower.

And Drummond has a higher ceiling because of his athletic ability and he's just 26 years old.

[seancally]

Just for funzies:

Boston receives: Adams, Roberson
Denver receives: Paul, Hayward
OKC receives: Milsap, Barton, Harris, Porter Jr., 2020 Bucks 1st

Denver can run Jokic with Paul, Hayward, Murray, and Grant. That's a highly intelligent team on both sides of the court.

OKC sets up a new young due with Shai and Porter Jr., and pairs them with really good role players in Barton and Harris. They also get salary relief with Milsap's expiring.

Boston gets a little salary relief with Roberson's expiring and gets better roster balance with a center that can truly make his teammates better (and has been doing it his entire career).

Celts can get more for Hayward.

That's just too low of a return for Hayward.

Perhaps. Your trade (before it was edited) included a lottery pick to get Drummond.

I'm not sure the difference between Drummond and Adams is a lottery pick. In fact, I'd rather have Adams, especially because he has another year on his contract. Drummond is an expiring.

Rose doesn't add much to our team either. We already have too many ball-handlers.

The lottery pick is looking like top 10 at best.
I wouldn't trade it if it was top 7 or top 8.
But Celts really don't need another top 10 or top 14 pick right now.

Drummond is a better offensive player than Adams.

And replacing Wanamaker with Rose makes the bench better.

I don't agree that Drummond is a better offensive player than Adams. He is far more turnover prone (3.5 is a lot for a 17ppg guy). He makes a lot of dumb plays out there. The advanced stats have typically indicated Adams helps his team more than Drummond (although I'll admit teammates make a big difference there). I just don't think on this team there would be that big of a difference. I think Adams has a better feel for the game.

And again, Drummond is an expiring.

And you aren't replace Rose with Wanamaker--not directly. Part of the problem is that there are too many players all wanting to attack in different ways. Rose needs the ball too much on offense and adds nothing on defense or as a shooter. At least Wanamaker is a decently versatile defender.

I like Adams and Drummond, but I have to think drummond would be far less turnover prone when he’s not the only viable player on the team who’s also initiating the offense and doing a lot of playmaking. He can be a good passer and playmaker from the elbows but I have to imagine his usage in Boston would be far lower.

And Drummond has a higher ceiling because of his athletic ability and he's just 26 years old.

In fairness Steven Adams is also 26 years old.

I would be thrilled with either. The criticism on Drummond is unfair, he’s a rebounding beast with great size and athleticism. He’s an adequate playmaker and great finisher. Would be a fun pick n roll mate with Kemba. He has been less engaged and doesn’t look motivated.. well, Detroit stinks, whatever.

Adams is a bruising center who can finish, hit free throws, set mean picks and play his role impeccably. Underrated athlete, also young. Been with a winning team for years now.

Either of them would, IMO, change our outlook for the better. We’re toast in the playoffs against MIL or PHI without at least some interior presence. People will argue otherwise, and that’s fine, hope I’m wrong. That said, without Brown and Tatum playing like all-stars or close on a consistent basis, then we’re not ready yet anyway. Problem is PHI and MIL are not going anywhere either. Giannis and Embiid are only 25.

[Fierce1]

Just for funzies:

Boston receives: Adams, Roberson
Denver receives: Paul, Hayward
OKC receives: Milsap, Barton, Harris, Porter Jr., 2020 Bucks 1st

Denver can run Jokic with Paul, Hayward, Murray, and Grant. That's a highly intelligent team on both sides of the court.

OKC sets up a new young due with Shai and Porter Jr., and pairs them with really good role players in Barton and Harris. They also get salary relief with Milsap's expiring.

Boston gets a little salary relief with Roberson's expiring and gets better roster balance with a center that can truly make his teammates better (and has been doing it his entire career).

Celts can get more for Hayward.

That's just too low of a return for Hayward.

Perhaps. Your trade (before it was edited) included a lottery pick to get Drummond.

I'm not sure the difference between Drummond and Adams is a lottery pick. In fact, I'd rather have Adams, especially because he has another year on his contract. Drummond is an expiring.

Rose doesn't add much to our team either. We already have too many ball-handlers.

The lottery pick is looking like top 10 at best.
I wouldn't trade it if it was top 7 or top 8.
But Celts really don't need another top 10 or top 14 pick right now.

Drummond is a better offensive player than Adams.

And replacing Wanamaker with Rose makes the bench better.

I don't agree that Drummond is a better offensive player than Adams. He is far more turnover prone (3.5 is a lot for a 17ppg guy). He makes a lot of dumb plays out there. The advanced stats have typically indicated Adams helps his team more than Drummond (although I'll admit teammates make a big difference there). I just don't think on this team there would be that big of a difference. I think Adams has a better feel for the game.

And again, Drummond is an expiring.

And you aren't replace Rose with Wanamaker--not directly. Part of the problem is that there are too many players all wanting to attack in different ways. Rose needs the ball too much on offense and adds nothing on defense or as a shooter. At least Wanamaker is a decently versatile defender.

I like Adams and Drummond, but I have to think drummond would be far less turnover prone when he’s not the only viable player on the team who’s also initiating the offense and doing a lot of playmaking. He can be a good passer and playmaker from the elbows but I have to imagine his usage in Boston would be far lower.

And Drummond has a higher ceiling because of his athletic ability and he's just 26 years old.

In fairness Steven Adams is also 26 years old.

I would be thrilled with either. The criticism on Drummond is unfair, he’s a rebounding beast with great size and athleticism. He’s an adequate playmaker and great finisher. Would be a fun pick n roll mate with Kemba. He has been less engaged and doesn’t look motivated.. well, Detroit stinks, whatever.

Adams is a bruising center who can finish, hit free throws, set mean picks and play his role impeccably. Underrated athlete, also young. Been with a winning team for years now.

Either of them would, IMO, change our outlook for the better. We’re toast in the playoffs against MIL or PHI without at least some interior presence. People will argue otherwise, and that’s fine, hope I’m wrong. That said, without Brown and Tatum playing like all-stars or close on a consistent basis, then we’re not ready yet anyway. Problem is PHI and MIL are not going anywhere either. Giannis and Embiid are only 25.

I think Philly is in trouble because they're also a flawed team.
They can beat Boston but they can't beat most of the other NBA teams.

Milwaukee is the only threat to Boston.

Giannis' lack of an outside shot will make the Bucks vulnerable in the playoffs.

If the Celts only had Baynes right now, I think the Celts can upset the Bucks in the playoffs.

Whether Drummond or Adams, I think the Celts will be better because the Celts will be more balanced and opposing teams will not be able to bully the Celts inside the paint.

[dannyboy35]

Gary Washburn: Danny Ainge to the Globe: “I don’t think I’m looking at any short-term urgency to trade away all my young assets to get some veteran player,” he said. “But we’re looking. We’ll have conversations before trade deadline like we do every year.” #Celtics 46 mins ago – via Twitter GwashburnGlobe

Danny looks a lot. But lately rarely trades in season. He dumped Bird last year but you have to go back to the 2014-15 season to see Ainge doing any type of meaningful in season trade.

As he said, he will have convos like he always does but recently, in season, that's all he does is look and talk.

I could see a small trade...Poirier and/or Semi and/or Edwards and/or a pick(s) going for someone but nothing that will significantly help or change this team.

100% agree. I think Bertans is the kind of guy Danny would love to get at the package you stated and he would help our bench a lot. Then he'd explore the buyout market for potentially another signing (maybe for a depth big).

But no way he's trading Hayward and/or Smart in a package for someone like Adams/Drummond, nor should he

The law of diminishing returns is setting in.

Right now all of the Celts' core 5 are healthy.

There's not enough touches and minutes for all them to be efficient.

Sacrificing either Smart or Hayward will open up more minutes for Tatum and Brown and getting a big man for Smart or Hayward will make the Celts a more balanced team.

Check the games where all 5 of the Celts' core 5 were healthy.
Usually only 3 among the 5 players end up having good games.

Your insistence that them being healthy = their chemistry is maxed out and they’re playing at their collective peak is frankly nonsense.

Celts already have the two best young wing players in the NBA, Tatum and Brown.

It makes total sense to trade the extra wing player, Hayward for a much needed starting Center.

Celts are losing games that they should not have lost.

Even the wins against weak teams like the Hawks and Bulls are not impressive.

In everything in life, there comes a point when too much of something will be counter productive.

So saying that trading Hayward or Smart for guys like Steven Adams or Andre Drummond does not make sense is totally unreasonable.

  I would definitely disagree they are the two best young wings in the league.

[Csfan1984]

I like doing it for the right pieces. My choices would be

Hayward, Semi, and Grizz pick for Aaron Gordon and Fournier.

Smart, GW, Edwards and Bucks pick for Myles Turner.

[Celtics4ever]

Every injury seems to reset Gordon's confidence to a new low. His passivity and production for the value of that contract is hurting us.

[nickagneta]

I like doing it for the right pieces. My choices would be

Hayward, Semi, and Grizz pick for Aaron Gordon and Fournier.

Smart, GW, Edwards and Bucks pick for Myles Turner.

So your team would be

Kemba/Wanamaker/Waters
Brown/Green/Langford
Tatum/Fournier
Gordon/
Turner/Theis/Kanter/Timelord/Poirier/Tacko

And you think this is what, a better, more balanced team? A team more capable of guarding this generation's version of basketball with great guard and wing perimeter play?

[kiwiceltic]

Just for funzies:

Boston receives: Adams, Roberson
Denver receives: Paul, Hayward
OKC receives: Milsap, Barton, Harris, Porter Jr., 2020 Bucks 1st

Denver can run Jokic with Paul, Hayward, Murray, and Grant. That's a highly intelligent team on both sides of the court.

OKC sets up a new young due with Shai and Porter Jr., and pairs them with really good role players in Barton and Harris. They also get salary relief with Milsap's expiring.

Boston gets a little salary relief with Roberson's expiring and gets better roster balance with a center that can truly make his teammates better (and has been doing it his entire career).

Celts can get more for Hayward.

That's just too low of a return for Hayward.

Perhaps. Your trade (before it was edited) included a lottery pick to get Drummond.

I'm not sure the difference between Drummond and Adams is a lottery pick. In fact, I'd rather have Adams, especially because he has another year on his contract. Drummond is an expiring.

Rose doesn't add much to our team either. We already have too many ball-handlers.

The lottery pick is looking like top 10 at best.
I wouldn't trade it if it was top 7 or top 8.
But Celts really don't need another top 10 or top 14 pick right now.

Drummond is a better offensive player than Adams.

And replacing Wanamaker with Rose makes the bench better.

I don't agree that Drummond is a better offensive player than Adams. He is far more turnover prone (3.5 is a lot for a 17ppg guy). He makes a lot of dumb plays out there. The advanced stats have typically indicated Adams helps his team more than Drummond (although I'll admit teammates make a big difference there). I just don't think on this team there would be that big of a difference. I think Adams has a better feel for the game.

And again, Drummond is an expiring.

And you aren't replace Rose with Wanamaker--not directly. Part of the problem is that there are too many players all wanting to attack in different ways. Rose needs the ball too much on offense and adds nothing on defense or as a shooter. At least Wanamaker is a decently versatile defender.

I like Adams and Drummond, but I have to think drummond would be far less turnover prone when he’s not the only viable player on the team who’s also initiating the offense and doing a lot of playmaking. He can be a good passer and playmaker from the elbows but I have to imagine his usage in Boston would be far lower.

And Drummond has a higher ceiling because of his athletic ability and he's just 26 years old.

In fairness Steven Adams is also 26 years old.

I would be thrilled with either. The criticism on Drummond is unfair, he’s a rebounding beast with great size and athleticism. He’s an adequate playmaker and great finisher. Would be a fun pick n roll mate with Kemba. He has been less engaged and doesn’t look motivated.. well, Detroit stinks, whatever.

Adams is a bruising center who can finish, hit free throws, set mean picks and play his role impeccably. Underrated athlete, also young. Been with a winning team for years now.

Either of them would, IMO, change our outlook for the better. We’re toast in the playoffs against MIL or PHI without at least some interior presence. People will argue otherwise, and that’s fine, hope I’m wrong. That said, without Brown and Tatum playing like all-stars or close on a consistent basis, then we’re not ready yet anyway. Problem is PHI and MIL are not going anywhere either. Giannis and Embiid are only 25.

I think Philly is in trouble because they're also a flawed team.
They can beat Boston but they can't beat most of the other NBA teams.

Milwaukee is the only threat to Boston.

Giannis' lack of an outside shot will make the Bucks vulnerable in the playoffs.

If the Celts only had Baynes right now, I think the Celts can upset the Bucks in the playoffs.

Whether Drummond or Adams, I think the Celts will be better because the Celts will be more balanced and opposing teams will not be able to bully the Celts inside the paint.

 Hayward has had a horrific run with the Cs, I think I could count on 2 hands the number of games he has significantly impacted in his time here.

Happy with Adams or Drummond in a trade for Hayward, though my vote is for Adams purely because a Stache Bro’s reunion in Boston would be amazing!

[SHAQATTACK]

Somehow , he needs to get healthy , where he can play at his peek level at a consistent level , not 2 games out of 10' .  We paid alot for a broken person.

[tazzmaniac]

Just for funzies:

Boston receives: Adams, Roberson
Denver receives: Paul, Hayward
OKC receives: Milsap, Barton, Harris, Porter Jr., 2020 Bucks 1st

Denver can run Jokic with Paul, Hayward, Murray, and Grant. That's a highly intelligent team on both sides of the court.

OKC sets up a new young due with Shai and Porter Jr., and pairs them with really good role players in Barton and Harris. They also get salary relief with Milsap's expiring.

Boston gets a little salary relief with Roberson's expiring and gets better roster balance with a center that can truly make his teammates better (and has been doing it his entire career).

Celts can get more for Hayward.

That's just too low of a return for Hayward.

Perhaps. Your trade (before it was edited) included a lottery pick to get Drummond.

I'm not sure the difference between Drummond and Adams is a lottery pick. In fact, I'd rather have Adams, especially because he has another year on his contract. Drummond is an expiring.

Rose doesn't add much to our team either. We already have too many ball-handlers.

The lottery pick is looking like top 10 at best.
I wouldn't trade it if it was top 7 or top 8.
But Celts really don't need another top 10 or top 14 pick right now.

Drummond is a better offensive player than Adams.

And replacing Wanamaker with Rose makes the bench better.

I don't agree that Drummond is a better offensive player than Adams. He is far more turnover prone (3.5 is a lot for a 17ppg guy). He makes a lot of dumb plays out there. The advanced stats have typically indicated Adams helps his team more than Drummond (although I'll admit teammates make a big difference there). I just don't think on this team there would be that big of a difference. I think Adams has a better feel for the game.

And again, Drummond is an expiring.

And you aren't replace Rose with Wanamaker--not directly. Part of the problem is that there are too many players all wanting to attack in different ways. Rose needs the ball too much on offense and adds nothing on defense or as a shooter. At least Wanamaker is a decently versatile defender.

I like Adams and Drummond, but I have to think drummond would be far less turnover prone when he’s not the only viable player on the team who’s also initiating the offense and doing a lot of playmaking. He can be a good passer and playmaker from the elbows but I have to imagine his usage in Boston would be far lower.

And Drummond has a higher ceiling because of his athletic ability and he's just 26 years old.

In fairness Steven Adams is also 26 years old.

I would be thrilled with either. The criticism on Drummond is unfair, he’s a rebounding beast with great size and athleticism. He’s an adequate playmaker and great finisher. Would be a fun pick n roll mate with Kemba. He has been less engaged and doesn’t look motivated.. well, Detroit stinks, whatever.

Adams is a bruising center who can finish, hit free throws, set mean picks and play his role impeccably. Underrated athlete, also young. Been with a winning team for years now.

Either of them would, IMO, change our outlook for the better. We’re toast in the playoffs against MIL or PHI without at least some interior presence. People will argue otherwise, and that’s fine, hope I’m wrong. That said, without Brown and Tatum playing like all-stars or close on a consistent basis, then we’re not ready yet anyway. Problem is PHI and MIL are not going anywhere either. Giannis and Embiid are only 25.

I think Philly is in trouble because they're also a flawed team.
They can beat Boston but they can't beat most of the other NBA teams.

Milwaukee is the only threat to Boston.

Giannis' lack of an outside shot will make the Bucks vulnerable in the playoffs.

If the Celts only had Baynes right now, I think the Celts can upset the Bucks in the playoffs.

Whether Drummond or Adams, I think the Celts will be better because the Celts will be more balanced and opposing teams will not be able to bully the Celts inside the paint.

So the Sixers have won all 3 games this season.  The last without Embiid.  They beat the Bucks in their only matchup and held Giannis to 18 pts on 27 shots.  But they are not a threat?  They're 25-14 overall and 10-9 against .500 or above teams.  But they can't beat most other teams?   Unlike past seasons, the Sixers aren't falling apart when Embiid isn't on court.  If Embiid is healthy, they certainly are a threat to make the finals. 

Really don't understand the Drummond love.  Embiid dominates him.  Drummond isn't going to keep Giannis out of the paint.   

[Phantom255x]

Just for funzies:

Boston receives: Adams, Roberson
Denver receives: Paul, Hayward
OKC receives: Milsap, Barton, Harris, Porter Jr., 2020 Bucks 1st

Denver can run Jokic with Paul, Hayward, Murray, and Grant. That's a highly intelligent team on both sides of the court.

OKC sets up a new young due with Shai and Porter Jr., and pairs them with really good role players in Barton and Harris. They also get salary relief with Milsap's expiring.

Boston gets a little salary relief with Roberson's expiring and gets better roster balance with a center that can truly make his teammates better (and has been doing it his entire career).

Celts can get more for Hayward.

That's just too low of a return for Hayward.

Perhaps. Your trade (before it was edited) included a lottery pick to get Drummond.

I'm not sure the difference between Drummond and Adams is a lottery pick. In fact, I'd rather have Adams, especially because he has another year on his contract. Drummond is an expiring.

Rose doesn't add much to our team either. We already have too many ball-handlers.

The lottery pick is looking like top 10 at best.
I wouldn't trade it if it was top 7 or top 8.
But Celts really don't need another top 10 or top 14 pick right now.

Drummond is a better offensive player than Adams.

And replacing Wanamaker with Rose makes the bench better.

I don't agree that Drummond is a better offensive player than Adams. He is far more turnover prone (3.5 is a lot for a 17ppg guy). He makes a lot of dumb plays out there. The advanced stats have typically indicated Adams helps his team more than Drummond (although I'll admit teammates make a big difference there). I just don't think on this team there would be that big of a difference. I think Adams has a better feel for the game.

And again, Drummond is an expiring.

And you aren't replace Rose with Wanamaker--not directly. Part of the problem is that there are too many players all wanting to attack in different ways. Rose needs the ball too much on offense and adds nothing on defense or as a shooter. At least Wanamaker is a decently versatile defender.

I like Adams and Drummond, but I have to think drummond would be far less turnover prone when he’s not the only viable player on the team who’s also initiating the offense and doing a lot of playmaking. He can be a good passer and playmaker from the elbows but I have to imagine his usage in Boston would be far lower.

And Drummond has a higher ceiling because of his athletic ability and he's just 26 years old.

In fairness Steven Adams is also 26 years old.

I would be thrilled with either. The criticism on Drummond is unfair, he’s a rebounding beast with great size and athleticism. He’s an adequate playmaker and great finisher. Would be a fun pick n roll mate with Kemba. He has been less engaged and doesn’t look motivated.. well, Detroit stinks, whatever.

Adams is a bruising center who can finish, hit free throws, set mean picks and play his role impeccably. Underrated athlete, also young. Been with a winning team for years now.

Either of them would, IMO, change our outlook for the better. We’re toast in the playoffs against MIL or PHI without at least some interior presence. People will argue otherwise, and that’s fine, hope I’m wrong. That said, without Brown and Tatum playing like all-stars or close on a consistent basis, then we’re not ready yet anyway. Problem is PHI and MIL are not going anywhere either. Giannis and Embiid are only 25.

I think Philly is in trouble because they're also a flawed team.
They can beat Boston but they can't beat most of the other NBA teams.

Milwaukee is the only threat to Boston.

Giannis' lack of an outside shot will make the Bucks vulnerable in the playoffs.

If the Celts only had Baynes right now, I think the Celts can upset the Bucks in the playoffs.

Whether Drummond or Adams, I think the Celts will be better because the Celts will be more balanced and opposing teams will not be able to bully the Celts inside the paint.

So the Sixers have won all 3 games this season.  The last without Embiid.  They beat the Bucks in their only matchup and held Giannis to 18 pts on 27 shots.  But they are not a threat?  They're 25-14 overall and 10-9 against .500 or above teams.  But they can't beat most other teams?   Unlike past seasons, the Sixers aren't falling apart when Embiid isn't on court.  If Embiid is healthy, they certainly are a threat to make the finals. 

Really don't understand the Drummond love.  Embiid dominates him.  Drummond isn't going to keep Giannis out of the paint.

I don't really get it either. People say Kanter + Theis can't hold up against those guys, but Drummond has been notorious for getting punked against Embiid, Giannis and a few other elite bigs. So it's not like we're really upgrading there. And I feel like the Drummond love is emerging from a combination of a bad week, a frustrating few games for Hayward, and just looking at Drummond's stats (but as I've said many times here already, I'd argue that if Kanter had the same role and minutes as Drummond, he'd average very similar numbers too).

Not knocking Drummond either, as I'll admit he has improved a lot over the past few years and he does put up insane games at times (I think recently he had 28/23!), but I don't see him as moving the needle at the expense of Hayward + limiting Kanter's current role.

[SHAQATTACK]

Got to wonderif Dannys trigger finger is getting itchy

[nickagneta]

Got to wonderif Dannys trigger finger is getting itchy

Danny has a finger that can go on a trigger. But he doesn't have a trigger finger that could get itchy.😉😁

[SHAQATTACK]

Just for funzies:

Boston receives: Adams, Roberson
Denver receives: Paul, Hayward
OKC receives: Milsap, Barton, Harris, Porter Jr., 2020 Bucks 1st

Denver can run Jokic with Paul, Hayward, Murray, and Grant. That's a highly intelligent team on both sides of the court.

OKC sets up a new young due with Shai and Porter Jr., and pairs them with really good role players in Barton and Harris. They also get salary relief with Milsap's expiring.

Boston gets a little salary relief with Roberson's expiring and gets better roster balance with a center that can truly make his teammates better (and has been doing it his entire career).

Celts can get more for Hayward.

That's just too low of a return for Hayward.

Perhaps. Your trade (before it was edited) included a lottery pick to get Drummond.

I'm not sure the difference between Drummond and Adams is a lottery pick. In fact, I'd rather have Adams, especially because he has another year on his contract. Drummond is an expiring.

Rose doesn't add much to our team either. We already have too many ball-handlers.

The lottery pick is looking like top 10 at best.
I wouldn't trade it if it was top 7 or top 8.
But Celts really don't need another top 10 or top 14 pick right now.

Drummond is a better offensive player than Adams.

And replacing Wanamaker with Rose makes the bench better.

I don't agree that Drummond is a better offensive player than Adams. He is far more turnover prone (3.5 is a lot for a 17ppg guy). He makes a lot of dumb plays out there. The advanced stats have typically indicated Adams helps his team more than Drummond (although I'll admit teammates make a big difference there). I just don't think on this team there would be that big of a difference. I think Adams has a better feel for the game.

And again, Drummond is an expiring.

And you aren't replace Rose with Wanamaker--not directly. Part of the problem is that there are too many players all wanting to attack in different ways. Rose needs the ball too much on offense and adds nothing on defense or as a shooter. At least Wanamaker is a decently versatile defender.

I like Adams and Drummond, but I have to think drummond would be far less turnover prone when he’s not the only viable player on the team who’s also initiating the offense and doing a lot of playmaking. He can be a good passer and playmaker from the elbows but I have to imagine his usage in Boston would be far lower.

And Drummond has a higher ceiling because of his athletic ability and he's just 26 years old.

In fairness Steven Adams is also 26 years old.

I would be thrilled with either. The criticism on Drummond is unfair, he’s a rebounding beast with great size and athleticism. He’s an adequate playmaker and great finisher. Would be a fun pick n roll mate with Kemba. He has been less engaged and doesn’t look motivated.. well, Detroit stinks, whatever.

Adams is a bruising center who can finish, hit free throws, set mean picks and play his role impeccably. Underrated athlete, also young. Been with a winning team for years now.

Either of them would, IMO, change our outlook for the better. We’re toast in the playoffs against MIL or PHI without at least some interior presence. People will argue otherwise, and that’s fine, hope I’m wrong. That said, without Brown and Tatum playing like all-stars or close on a consistent basis, then we’re not ready yet anyway. Problem is PHI and MIL are not going anywhere either. Giannis and Embiid are only 25.

I think Philly is in trouble because they're also a flawed team.
They can beat Boston but they can't beat most of the other NBA teams.

Milwaukee is the only threat to Boston.

Giannis' lack of an outside shot will make the Bucks vulnerable in the playoffs.

If the Celts only had Baynes right now, I think the Celts can upset the Bucks in the playoffs.

Whether Drummond or Adams, I think the Celts will be better because the Celts will be more balanced and opposing teams will not be able to bully the Celts inside the paint.

So the Sixers have won all 3 games this season.  The last without Embiid.  They beat the Bucks in their only matchup and held Giannis to 18 pts on 27 shots.  But they are not a threat?  They're 25-14 overall and 10-9 against .500 or above teams.  But they can't beat most other teams?   Unlike past seasons, the Sixers aren't falling apart when Embiid isn't on court.  If Embiid is healthy, they certainly are a threat to make the finals. 

Really don't understand the Drummond love.  Embiid dominates him.  Drummond isn't going to keep Giannis out of the paint.

I don't really get it either. People say Kanter + Theis can't hold up against those guys, but Drummond has been notorious for getting punked against Embiid, Giannis and a few other elite bigs. So it's not like we're really upgrading there. And I feel like the Drummond love is emerging from a combination of a bad week, a frustrating few games for Hayward, and just looking at Drummond's stats (but as I've said many times here already, I'd argue that if Kanter had the same role and minutes as Drummond, he'd average very similar numbers too).

Not knocking Drummond either, as I'll admit he has improved a lot over the past few years and he does put up insane games at times (I think recently he had 28/23!), but I don't see him as moving the needle at the expense of Hayward + limiting Kanter's current role.

What we are really say n is there is AD and Embiid .....and anybody else is a good bit inferior at their postion. 

In a world without AD and Embiid ....I like Drummond . ....otherwise be d probably be better off with Adams at a cheaper contract .

[Csfan1984]

I like doing it for the right pieces. My choices would be

Hayward, Semi, and Grizz pick for Aaron Gordon and Fournier.

Smart, GW, Edwards and Bucks pick for Myles Turner.

So your team would be

Kemba/Wanamaker/Waters
Brown/Green/Langford
Tatum/Fournier
Gordon/
Turner/Theis/Kanter/Timelord/Poirier/Tacko

And you think this is what, a better, more balanced team? A team more capable of guarding this generation's version of basketball with great guard and wing perimeter play?

Yeah I do. If you have Theis play his actual position of PF as a backup that's an improvement. Scoring off the bench in Fournier is another improvement. Bonus is Fournier can play at both SG and SF which ever spot needs a breather. A. Gordon used to be considered a very good defender, athletically he can stay with guys like Giannis and Saikum. Turner is a good upgrade over what we have currently.

Starters
Walker, Brown, Tatum, Gordon, Turner.

Main Bench Rotation
Wanna, Fournier, Theis, Kanter.

Deep Bench
Water, Langford, Green, Timelord, VP
DL
Tacko
You can also add a buyout player as you free up a roster slot.

It will never happen though. I feel unless Hayward ask to be traded he won't be.