Trade for Myles Turner(merged threads)

[mmmmm]

Hayward is expecting to get paid, and I can most likely see him rejecting his PO.

I don't see how a trade centered around Hayward for Turner/Lamb can be bad at all for either parties.

I know Hayward will probably get back to his usual form of maybe averaging like 17/5/4, but I would rather try to grow and develop our young wings and see if they can take the step forward later this year.

While I agree it is likely that Hayward will eventually turn down his PO and go for a new, multi-year contract, in the mean time, he's not simple to trade right now.   Without him up front opting in/out, it is difficult for teams to set a trade price for him.  Not impossible that he would be moved, but not highly likely.

I think Gordon would only get traded to a team if they got a commitment from him to sign with them.

In 2014, when Hayward first reached free agency, he signed with CHA with the intention of playing with Kemba, only to have Utah exercise their match rights and keep him in Utah.   I think he likes playing here, and would not be surprised if his hope/intention is to sign long term with BOS.    Obviously, price will matter.   And as potentially THE top free agent in next summer's market, he would likely be able to command a max contract from some team. 

I personally do not believe Danny will end up trading any of his top 5 'core' players, but of those, Jayson and Smart are currently the most 'tradable'.   Hayward I discussed above and Jaylen just signed an extension and for all intents can't be traded until next Summer.   And it makes no sense to trade Kemba (creating a hole at PG) in order to try to shore up the 5.    So if you want to propose trades that move one or two of our 'Big 5', then it would most likely need to involve Jayson and/or Marcus.

And I just don't see such a deal happening.

[PhoSita]

Tatum for Capela, basically?



Noooooooooooope

[gouki88]

So we basically turn Houston into the best team in the league, trade a 21-year-old All-Star level forward for an athletic rim-runner, and Indiana get ... basically Langford and Rob Williams? Don't think so.

Capela is an elite rebounder and good defender, but he's a useless passer and cannot shoot either. He's like a worse Drummond to me.

[gouki88]

Hayward is expecting to get paid, and I can most likely see him rejecting his PO.

I don't see how a trade centered around Hayward for Turner/Lamb can be bad at all for either parties.

I know Hayward will probably get back to his usual form of maybe averaging like 17/5/4, but I would rather try to grow and develop our young wings and see if they can take the step forward later this year.

It can be bad for us because we lose our most gifted offensive wing, who happens to be our best passer. It's also funny that his numbers for this season are currently better than the ones you proposed as him "maybe" returning to, even with numerous games cut short by injury.

I really don't get the idea that Hayward is somehow holding the wings back. Nonsense to me

[Monkhouse]

Hayward is expecting to get paid, and I can most likely see him rejecting his PO.

I don't see how a trade centered around Hayward for Turner/Lamb can be bad at all for either parties.

I know Hayward will probably get back to his usual form of maybe averaging like 17/5/4, but I would rather try to grow and develop our young wings and see if they can take the step forward later this year.

It can be bad for us because we lose our most gifted offensive wing, who happens to be our best passer. It's also funny that his numbers for this season are currently better than the ones you proposed as him "maybe" returning to, even with numerous games cut short by injury.

I really don't get the idea that Hayward is somehow holding the wings back. Nonsense to me

Yes, but like you said yourself, those numbers are extrapolated due to the amount of short sample size, and games missed.

And who said anything about Hayward holding back the wings? Also, are you confident that the Celtics should re-sign for Hayward? And feasibly, what contract is reasonable? Because he's definitely going to be getting paid considering the FA next year isn't that strong.

[gouki88]

Hayward is expecting to get paid, and I can most likely see him rejecting his PO.

I don't see how a trade centered around Hayward for Turner/Lamb can be bad at all for either parties.

I know Hayward will probably get back to his usual form of maybe averaging like 17/5/4, but I would rather try to grow and develop our young wings and see if they can take the step forward later this year.

It can be bad for us because we lose our most gifted offensive wing, who happens to be our best passer. It's also funny that his numbers for this season are currently better than the ones you proposed as him "maybe" returning to, even with numerous games cut short by injury.

I really don't get the idea that Hayward is somehow holding the wings back. Nonsense to me

Yes, but like you said yourself, those numbers are extrapolated due to the amount of short sample size, and games missed.

And who said anything about Hayward holding back the wings?

Yeah, they are. But be that as it may, I believe Hayward offers immeasurably more to this team than Myles Turner and Jeremy Lamb, a shooter who cannot shoot.

I definitely inferred that from "I would rather try to grow and develop our young wings and see if they can take the step forward later this year." In the sense that you would "rather" see Hayward out of the way so that they can take some step forward (not sure what step forward Brown could take that isn't to do with touches).

[KG Living Legend]

 
 Would we really need to add a pick? If not than givee Myles.

[Vermont Green]

I think the trade is Hayward for Turner and Lamb if there is a trade (and there probably isn't).  I don't think trading Hayward hurts us all that much but we still want to get value back.  We have Walker, Brown, Tatum, Smart, and we would add Lamb to soften the blow of losing Hayward.  I think the bigger question is how good is Turner really.  Probably not quite good enough.

I don't think a trade where we give up 4 players and picks is going to get done either.  That kind of trade really makes no sense for either team.  Indiana would have to cut players and we would be signing up 2-way players to have a roster.

If you don’t think trading Hayward hurts us much then I feel like you could do to pay more attention to what he brings.

I’ve also seen a couple of people talk about Turner’s rebounding. You all know he’s actually a poor rebounder, right?

Kind of condescending with the reply but I think you are missing my point.  I believe that Hayward is a good player (albeit durability may continue to be an issue) and brings a lot but he brings pretty much the same things that Brown, Tatum, and others bring now and what Lamb could bring some of in return.  On the other hand, what Turner can bring fills a huge hole.

So we lose Hayward but get back Lamb; a step down for sure but at a position or a skill set where we have many other options.  We gain a lesser wing to reinforce the bench and help to off set the loss of Hayward but also gain a big who can do things no one else on our current team can do.

My problem with this is not the loss Hayward (a valuable player but with a redundant skillset) but rather that I don't think Turner is quite enough of an upgrade to make it worthwhile.  If Turner was a little better, a little more consistent, it is a trade I would do.

[mobilija]

 i.e. Hayward has more talent than Turner. Turner isn’t as good of big as Hayward is a wing. Best players wins games. The chemistry/team balance upgrade doesn’t equate to a better team in this instance.

...in reply to Vermont Green above...

[Vermont Green]

i.e. Hayward has more talent than Turner. Turner isn’t as good of big as Hayward is a wing. Best players wins games. The chemistry/team balance upgrade doesn’t equate to a better team in this instance.

...in reply to Vermont Green above...

Agree, Hayward alone is more value than Turner alone.  Add in Lamb (which is the proposed trade that I am commenting on) and the value proposition gets closer.  Positionally, our greatest need is the front court.  That is a consideration. 

For example would you rather add Westbrook or Turner to our current team?  Westbrook alone is more value by far but we already have a really good starting PG.  I am just using this as an example to illustrate my point that adding the better player may not always help your team the most.

Houston with Harden and Westbrook is my case in point.  Two great players but when on the same team, you don't get the most out of either.  We are getting a somewhat diminished return from Hayward because of our roster imbalance.

[gouki88]

I think the trade is Hayward for Turner and Lamb if there is a trade (and there probably isn't).  I don't think trading Hayward hurts us all that much but we still want to get value back.  We have Walker, Brown, Tatum, Smart, and we would add Lamb to soften the blow of losing Hayward.  I think the bigger question is how good is Turner really.  Probably not quite good enough.

I don't think a trade where we give up 4 players and picks is going to get done either.  That kind of trade really makes no sense for either team.  Indiana would have to cut players and we would be signing up 2-way players to have a roster.

If you don’t think trading Hayward hurts us much then I feel like you could do to pay more attention to what he brings.

I’ve also seen a couple of people talk about Turner’s rebounding. You all know he’s actually a poor rebounder, right?

Kind of condescending with the reply but I think you are missing my point.  I believe that Hayward is a good player (albeit durability may continue to be an issue) and brings a lot but he brings pretty much the same things that Brown, Tatum, and others bring now and what Lamb could bring some of in return.  On the other hand, what Turner can bring fills a huge hole.

So we lose Hayward but get back Lamb; a step down for sure but at a position or a skill set where we have many other options.  We gain a lesser wing to reinforce the bench and help to off set the loss of Hayward but also gain a big who can do things no one else on our current team can do.

My problem with this is not the loss Hayward (a valuable player but with a redundant skillset) but rather that I don't think Turner is quite enough of an upgrade to make it worthwhile.  If Turner was a little better, a little more consistent, it is a trade I would do.

I do apologise for the snark. Real life annoyances leaking into my posting I think

I don't think I agree that Hayward's skill set is redundant. He's a better playmaker than anyone on our roster, and is a top three shooter on our team. I think that alone makes him one of most valuable players.

I also, perhaps clearly, don't rate Turner that highly. Definitely not worth Hayward or Smart, and probably not worth a four for one either

[mobilija]

i.e. Hayward has more talent than Turner. Turner isn’t as good of big as Hayward is a wing. Best players wins games. The chemistry/team balance upgrade doesn’t equate to a better team in this instance.

...in reply to Vermont Green above...

Agree, Hayward alone is more value than Turner alone.  Add in Lamb (which is the proposed trade that I am commenting on) and the value proposition gets closer.  Positionally, our greatest need is the front court.  That is a consideration. 

For example would you rather add Westbrook or Turner to our current team?  Westbrook alone is more value by far but we already have a really good starting PG.  I am just using this as an example to illustrate my point that adding the better player may not always help your team the most.

Houston with Harden and Westbrook is my case in point.  Two great players but when on the same team, you don't get the most out of either.  We are getting a somewhat diminished return from Hayward because of our roster imbalance.

I like Lamb but his addition doesn’t really move the needle or lessen the blow of loosing the best player in a trade.

I’m also not fully convinced that the roster is un-balanced. 3 excellent wings instead of 2? Not a problem. It’s working, We have a really good  team. A center upgrade would be nice and put us next level but not at the expense of what makes us currently unique and high quality.

[Jvalin]

5 days till the deadline. Really hope we 'll trade for this guy. He'd be the perfect fit for us.

- terrific defender
- happy to play off the ball on offense --> he wouldn't be taking shots away from our talented wings
- spaces the floor --> 34.9% from three this season in 4.3 attempts per game --> ranks 2nd among Centers in 3-point FGs made per game (only guy ahead of him is Vucevic)

(click on image to enlarge)

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ufwojnv

The Pacers would be saving $4,548,119 in salary this season. They'd have to cut a fringe player to make the deal work. Let's say they cut Alize Johnson who's on a $1,416,852 expiring contract and has hardly ever played for them.
 
Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of Smart's game. Imo, he's our best defender and our best passer. It's all about putting our 5 best players on the court at the same time.

Kemba - Brown - Hayward - Tatum - Turner

This would be a far more balanced starting 5 than the one that we have now. Not to mention, we'd free up a roster spot to sign a player via the buyout market.

Would hate us for trading Smart, but Turner ain't no scrub. You have to lose something to gain something. That's how trades work.

[nickagneta]

Myles Turner's stats are not all that different than Theis' and Theis gets those stats in 6 minutes less per game. Given Turner's upgrade is so small as compared to Theis, I don't see sacrificing the heart and soul of this team, Marcus Smart, to try to get Turner.

[Jvalin]

Myles Turner's stats are not all that different than Theis' and Theis gets those stats in 6 minutes less per game. Given Turner's upgrade is so small as compared to Theis, I don't see sacrificing the heart and soul of this team, Marcus Smart, to try to get Turner.

Numbers never tell the full story. If anything, Smart is the epitome of this.

Much like Smart, Turner is a terrific defender. It's not something you see on the box score, but it makes a huge difference on the court. Not to mention, he spaces the floor, which means that Brown/Kemba/Tatum/Hayward would have more opportunities to thrive as slashers.