Trade for Myles Turner(merged threads)

[byennie]

I don’t think Turner could be classified as even an average rebounder. His highest rebound % is 13.9, and he’s currently sitting below 11 - Theis is sitting over 15 and was at 16 as a rookie.

For the discount Smart is in terms of contract, and for the intangibles and leadership he brings, I wouldn’t even consider a deal based around them.

I'd probably keep Smart too, but this idea that Turner is going to kill our rebounding when we've been playing Horford and Theis at center the last few years don't make much sense to me. 11 vs 15 or 16 is cherry picking - their career numbers are much closer than that, with Turner playing every night alongside Sabonis who is by far the best rebounder on either team while Theis was usually the best rebounder in his lineup.

PTS / REB / BLK / 3PT
--------------------------
13.6 / 6.7 / 1.3 / 1.1
13.3 / 7.2 / 2.7 / 1.0

That's Al Horford and Myles Turner last year, and Turner played slightly fewer minutes. Horford was the superior passer, but Turner had double the blocks, double the free throw attempts, more rebounds, and a higher 3PT%. This is not to say I would have preferred Turner last year, but I think it does shed some light on the level of criticism here and unwillingness to trade any valuable asset for him.

[Androslav]

I don’t think Turner could be classified as even an average rebounder. His highest rebound % is 13.9, and he’s currently sitting below 11 - Theis is sitting over 15 and was at 16 as a rookie.

For the discount Smart is in terms of contract, and for the intangibles and leadership he brings, I wouldn’t even consider a deal based around them.

I'd probably keep Smart too, but this idea that Turner is going to kill our rebounding when we've been playing Horford and Theis at center the last few years don't make much sense to me. 11 vs 15 or 16 is cherry picking - their career numbers are much closer than that, with Turner playing every night alongside Sabonis who is by far the best rebounder on either team while Theis was usually the best rebounder in his lineup.

PTS / REB / BLK / 3PT
--------------------------
13.6 / 6.7 / 1.3 / 1.1
13.3 / 7.2 / 2.7 / 1.0

That's Al Horford and Myles Turner last year, and Turner played slightly fewer minutes. Horford was the superior passer, but Turner had double the blocks, double the free throw attempts, more rebounds, and a higher 3PT%. This is not to say I would have preferred Turner last year, but I think it does shed some light on the level of criticism here and unwillingness to trade any valuable asset for him.

Those raw stats might be similar but Horford is a Porsche for Turner.
Turners feel for the game is at a paleolithic stage of development.

[Somebody]

I don’t think Turner could be classified as even an average rebounder. His highest rebound % is 13.9, and he’s currently sitting below 11 - Theis is sitting over 15 and was at 16 as a rookie.

For the discount Smart is in terms of contract, and for the intangibles and leadership he brings, I wouldn’t even consider a deal based around them.

I'd probably keep Smart too, but this idea that Turner is going to kill our rebounding when we've been playing Horford and Theis at center the last few years don't make much sense to me. 11 vs 15 or 16 is cherry picking - their career numbers are much closer than that, with Turner playing every night alongside Sabonis who is by far the best rebounder on either team while Theis was usually the best rebounder in his lineup.

PTS / REB / BLK / 3PT
--------------------------
13.6 / 6.7 / 1.3 / 1.1
13.3 / 7.2 / 2.7 / 1.0

That's Al Horford and Myles Turner last year, and Turner played slightly fewer minutes. Horford was the superior passer, but Turner had double the blocks, double the free throw attempts, more rebounds, and a higher 3PT%. This is not to say I would have preferred Turner last year, but I think it does shed some light on the level of criticism here and unwillingness to trade any valuable asset for him.

The box stats really don't show how they play the game though. Turner's lack of passing kills him on offence - he's already a poor offensive player to begin with when it comes to creating easy looks for himself, but his poor passing makes him unable to be a good DHO/high post facilitator. His defence is also overrated due to his lack of girth and strength against the biggest of centres in the league.

But yes I think he does have a modicum of value around the league due to his shooting and defence against teams who don't have top centres, I'd be willing to trade some picks and prospects for him as long as our core 5 isn't touched. Hayward is a tricky asset - his value to us is higher than what he's worth to other teams around the league due to his complementary traits (passing, shooting).

[Csfan1984]

Pacers could use a starting PF. Maybe Magic are a option as third team.

Aaron Gordon to Pacers

Smart, a C's first, and GW to Magic

Turner to C's.


Magic would be a tough team to play with Smart and Isaac.

[Celtics4ever]

Pacers could use a starting PF. Maybe Magic are a option as third team.

Aaron Gordon to Pacers

Smart, a C's first, and GW to Magic

Turner to C's.


Magic would be a tough team to play with Smart and Isaac.

We lose Smart and we lose our toughness,

[gouki88]

I don’t think Turner could be classified as even an average rebounder. His highest rebound % is 13.9, and he’s currently sitting below 11 - Theis is sitting over 15 and was at 16 as a rookie.

For the discount Smart is in terms of contract, and for the intangibles and leadership he brings, I wouldn’t even consider a deal based around them.

I'd probably keep Smart too, but this idea that Turner is going to kill our rebounding when we've been playing Horford and Theis at center the last few years don't make much sense to me. 11 vs 15 or 16 is cherry picking - their career numbers are much closer than that, with Turner playing every night alongside Sabonis who is by far the best rebounder on either team while Theis was usually the best rebounder in his lineup.

PTS / REB / BLK / 3PT
--------------------------
13.6 / 6.7 / 1.3 / 1.1
13.3 / 7.2 / 2.7 / 1.0

That's Al Horford and Myles Turner last year, and Turner played slightly fewer minutes. Horford was the superior passer, but Turner had double the blocks, double the free throw attempts, more rebounds, and a higher 3PT%. This is not to say I would have preferred Turner last year, but I think it does shed some light on the level of criticism here and unwillingness to trade any valuable asset for him.

Those raw stats might be similar but Horford is a Porsche for Turner.
Turners feel for the game is at a paleolithic stage of development.

Exactly. Turner can shoot, but he's not a good offensive player by any means.

[Who]

How valuable is the Memphis pick?

I thought that could be a top 5 pick next year?

If so, that is a lot more valuable than Smart and why I would prefer to deal Smart than the Memphis pick.

[Who]

I'd happily deal Smart for Myles Turner.

Similar value players but M.Turner plays a position of need. Celtics would finally have true balance.

It's a deal that help both teams.

It might even help the Pacers more.

But if the Celts are going to give up Smart, might as well go after Drummond.

Drummond is better than Myles Turner.

I prefer Turner to Drummond. More versatile both on offense and on defense. Not a big Drummond fan.

[Somebody]

I'd happily deal Smart for Myles Turner.

Similar value players but M.Turner plays a position of need. Celtics would finally have true balance.

It's a deal that help both teams.

It might even help the Pacers more.

But if the Celts are going to give up Smart, might as well go after Drummond.

Drummond is better than Myles Turner.

I prefer Turner to Drummond. More versatile both on offense and on defense. Not a big Drummond fan.

Actually not sure about offence - sure Turner can shoot, but Drummond's finishing and offensive rebounding do hold value even though they're slightly frowned upon in the modern game (hunting for offensive rebounds leaves your transition defence wide open while finishing is contingent on good enough spacing to really wreak havoc on defences). I think Drummond's offence would look really good in Boston's offensive scheme (we have 2 elite defensive wings and arguably the best non-big defender in the league to protect our transition defence and we have enough shooting to space the floor for one non-shooter), I'm just not sure whether his defence will be comparable to what Theis has done for us so far (borderline elite stuff from him imo, his versatility is incredibly valuable in our scheme).

[Jvalin]

I don’t think Turner could be classified as even an average rebounder. His highest rebound % is 13.9, and he’s currently sitting below 11 - Theis is sitting over 15 and was at 16 as a rookie.

For the discount Smart is in terms of contract, and for the intangibles and leadership he brings, I wouldn’t even consider a deal based around them.

I'd probably keep Smart too, but this idea that Turner is going to kill our rebounding when we've been playing Horford and Theis at center the last few years don't make much sense to me. 11 vs 15 or 16 is cherry picking - their career numbers are much closer than that, with Turner playing every night alongside Sabonis who is by far the best rebounder on either team while Theis was usually the best rebounder in his lineup.

PTS / REB / BLK / 3PT
--------------------------
13.6 / 6.7 / 1.3 / 1.1
13.3 / 7.2 / 2.7 / 1.0

That's Al Horford and Myles Turner last year, and Turner played slightly fewer minutes. Horford was the superior passer, but Turner had double the blocks, double the free throw attempts, more rebounds, and a higher 3PT%. This is not to say I would have preferred Turner last year, but I think it does shed some light on the level of criticism here and unwillingness to trade any valuable asset for him.

Those raw stats might be similar but Horford is a Porsche for Turner.
Turners feel for the game is at a paleolithic stage of development.

Exactly. Turner can shoot, but he's not a good offensive player by any means.

Which isn't a problem for us, cause all we need is a defensive Center who can stretch the floor on offense. We can't have 5 alphas in the starting lineup. There won't be enough shots for everybody and we 'll end up a dysfunctional team, like we were last season.

[gouki88]

I don’t think Turner could be classified as even an average rebounder. His highest rebound % is 13.9, and he’s currently sitting below 11 - Theis is sitting over 15 and was at 16 as a rookie.

For the discount Smart is in terms of contract, and for the intangibles and leadership he brings, I wouldn’t even consider a deal based around them.

I'd probably keep Smart too, but this idea that Turner is going to kill our rebounding when we've been playing Horford and Theis at center the last few years don't make much sense to me. 11 vs 15 or 16 is cherry picking - their career numbers are much closer than that, with Turner playing every night alongside Sabonis who is by far the best rebounder on either team while Theis was usually the best rebounder in his lineup.

PTS / REB / BLK / 3PT
--------------------------
13.6 / 6.7 / 1.3 / 1.1
13.3 / 7.2 / 2.7 / 1.0

That's Al Horford and Myles Turner last year, and Turner played slightly fewer minutes. Horford was the superior passer, but Turner had double the blocks, double the free throw attempts, more rebounds, and a higher 3PT%. This is not to say I would have preferred Turner last year, but I think it does shed some light on the level of criticism here and unwillingness to trade any valuable asset for him.

Those raw stats might be similar but Horford is a Porsche for Turner.
Turners feel for the game is at a paleolithic stage of development.

Exactly. Turner can shoot, but he's not a good offensive player by any means.

Which isn't a problem for us, cause all we need is a defensive Center who can stretch the floor on offense. We can't have 5 alphas in the starting lineup. There won't be enough shots for everybody and we 'll end up a dysfunctional team, like we were last season.

I simply don't see that this is a problem worth gutting our team over

[Jvalin]

I don’t think Turner could be classified as even an average rebounder. His highest rebound % is 13.9, and he’s currently sitting below 11 - Theis is sitting over 15 and was at 16 as a rookie.

For the discount Smart is in terms of contract, and for the intangibles and leadership he brings, I wouldn’t even consider a deal based around them.

I'd probably keep Smart too, but this idea that Turner is going to kill our rebounding when we've been playing Horford and Theis at center the last few years don't make much sense to me. 11 vs 15 or 16 is cherry picking - their career numbers are much closer than that, with Turner playing every night alongside Sabonis who is by far the best rebounder on either team while Theis was usually the best rebounder in his lineup.

PTS / REB / BLK / 3PT
--------------------------
13.6 / 6.7 / 1.3 / 1.1
13.3 / 7.2 / 2.7 / 1.0

That's Al Horford and Myles Turner last year, and Turner played slightly fewer minutes. Horford was the superior passer, but Turner had double the blocks, double the free throw attempts, more rebounds, and a higher 3PT%. This is not to say I would have preferred Turner last year, but I think it does shed some light on the level of criticism here and unwillingness to trade any valuable asset for him.

Those raw stats might be similar but Horford is a Porsche for Turner.
Turners feel for the game is at a paleolithic stage of development.

Exactly. Turner can shoot, but he's not a good offensive player by any means.

Which isn't a problem for us, cause all we need is a defensive Center who can stretch the floor on offense. We can't have 5 alphas in the starting lineup. There won't be enough shots for everybody and we 'll end up a dysfunctional team, like we were last season.

I simply don't see that this is a problem worth gutting our team over

And I simply don't see us beating the Bucks/the Sixers come playoff time with Theis defending Giannis-BroLo/Horford-Embiid.

If Danny believes that the C's are not ready to contend this season, I'm perfectly happy with our current roster. No point waisting assets with a view to playing a few more playoff games. If he believes that the C's might have a chance, we got to upgrade the C position.

Personally speaking, I believe we have a chance, hence I want us to upgrade the C position.

[Somebody]

I don’t think Turner could be classified as even an average rebounder. His highest rebound % is 13.9, and he’s currently sitting below 11 - Theis is sitting over 15 and was at 16 as a rookie.

For the discount Smart is in terms of contract, and for the intangibles and leadership he brings, I wouldn’t even consider a deal based around them.

I'd probably keep Smart too, but this idea that Turner is going to kill our rebounding when we've been playing Horford and Theis at center the last few years don't make much sense to me. 11 vs 15 or 16 is cherry picking - their career numbers are much closer than that, with Turner playing every night alongside Sabonis who is by far the best rebounder on either team while Theis was usually the best rebounder in his lineup.

PTS / REB / BLK / 3PT
--------------------------
13.6 / 6.7 / 1.3 / 1.1
13.3 / 7.2 / 2.7 / 1.0

That's Al Horford and Myles Turner last year, and Turner played slightly fewer minutes. Horford was the superior passer, but Turner had double the blocks, double the free throw attempts, more rebounds, and a higher 3PT%. This is not to say I would have preferred Turner last year, but I think it does shed some light on the level of criticism here and unwillingness to trade any valuable asset for him.

Those raw stats might be similar but Horford is a Porsche for Turner.
Turners feel for the game is at a paleolithic stage of development.

Exactly. Turner can shoot, but he's not a good offensive player by any means.

Which isn't a problem for us, cause all we need is a defensive Center who can stretch the floor on offense. We can't have 5 alphas in the starting lineup. There won't be enough shots for everybody and we 'll end up a dysfunctional team, like we were last season.

I simply don't see that this is a problem worth gutting our team over

And I simply don't see us beating the Bucks/the Sixers come playoff time with Theis defending Giannis-BroLo/Horford-Embiid.

If Danny believes that the C's are not ready to contend this season, I'm perfectly happy with our current roster. No point waisting assets with a view to playing a few more playoff games. If he believes that the C's might have a chance, we got to make a trade.

Personally speaking, I believe we have a chance, hence I want us to make a trade.

And getting Turner won't help us defend those guys except for Brook. I think our best shot is hoping that either Gasol/Favors gets bought out and we snap them up off waivers.

[Who]

I'd happily deal Smart for Myles Turner.

Similar value players but M.Turner plays a position of need. Celtics would finally have true balance.

It's a deal that help both teams.

It might even help the Pacers more.

But if the Celts are going to give up Smart, might as well go after Drummond.

Drummond is better than Myles Turner.

I prefer Turner to Drummond. More versatile both on offense and on defense. Not a big Drummond fan.

Actually not sure about offence - sure Turner can shoot, but Drummond's finishing and offensive rebounding do hold value even though they're slightly frowned upon in the modern game (hunting for offensive rebounds leaves your transition defence wide open while finishing is contingent on good enough spacing to really wreak havoc on defences). I think Drummond's offence would look really good in Boston's offensive scheme (we have 2 elite defensive wings and arguably the best non-big defender in the league to protect our transition defence and we have enough shooting to space the floor for one non-shooter), I'm just not sure whether his defence will be comparable to what Theis has done for us so far (borderline elite stuff from him imo, his versatility is incredibly valuable in our scheme).

I don't count offensive rebounding as offense. I count it as rebounding. I look at basketball in three phases -- (1) when you have the ball (2) when the other team has the ball (3) when neither team has the ball. Rebounding is the in the 3rd phase.

So when I evaluate Drummond's offense vs Myles Turner's offense I look at Drummond's paint scoring against Turner's floor spacing & paint scoring. This is why I rate Turner's offense ahead of Drummond's offense.

[gouki88]

I'd happily deal Smart for Myles Turner.

Similar value players but M.Turner plays a position of need. Celtics would finally have true balance.

It's a deal that help both teams.

It might even help the Pacers more.

But if the Celts are going to give up Smart, might as well go after Drummond.

Drummond is better than Myles Turner.

I prefer Turner to Drummond. More versatile both on offense and on defense. Not a big Drummond fan.

Actually not sure about offence - sure Turner can shoot, but Drummond's finishing and offensive rebounding do hold value even though they're slightly frowned upon in the modern game (hunting for offensive rebounds leaves your transition defence wide open while finishing is contingent on good enough spacing to really wreak havoc on defences). I think Drummond's offence would look really good in Boston's offensive scheme (we have 2 elite defensive wings and arguably the best non-big defender in the league to protect our transition defence and we have enough shooting to space the floor for one non-shooter), I'm just not sure whether his defence will be comparable to what Theis has done for us so far (borderline elite stuff from him imo, his versatility is incredibly valuable in our scheme).

I don't count offensive rebounding as offense. I count it as rebounding. I look at basketball in three phases -- (1) when you have the ball (2) when the other team has the ball (3) when neither team has the ball. Rebounding is the in the 3rd phase.

So when I evaluate Drummond's offense vs Myles Turner's offense I look at Drummond's paint scoring against Turner's floor spacing & paint scoring. This is why I rate Turner's offense ahead of Drummond's offense.

Drummond is, however, a considerably better passer than Turner, and is able to generate more offence for himself and his team through his rebounding, which sits at nearly 11 more RPG than Turner's.