The shine is off of Tatum

[cman88]

Kemba had a horrible night too. If we are going to judge players on one game where pretty much everyone other than hayward was cold then. Kemba was a bad signing as well!

They will get better. Less mid range shots from tatum is nice. Those layups will fall just needs to keep attacking the basket

[Kuberski33]

I don't want him feeling like he's the only guy who can score and jacking up ill advised shots when there are better shots for other people.

I don't understand this at all (less this specific comment but common feeling among many here). The starting lineup has 5 guys who all scoring threats. Tatum is not an island yet he continues to play like he is. It is what it is - selfishness.

Nor is there any pressure on Tatum to be "the man". Kemba is "the man". Then you have shared responsibility between Hayward, Tatum and Jaylen.

Tatum hasn't been put up on some pedestal. He has been put in a strong position where there is a shared load and he can continue to grow gradually.

It is Tatum himself who keeps putting himself up on a pedestal. Keeps trying to "the man". It is him. His selfishness. His unwillingness to share the stage with his teammates. His unwillingness to wait until he develops his game more and becomes a more well-rounded offensive player. His demand that he be a 20ppg scorer.

This is my take as well, though I would add that I question whether he's athletic enough to ever be a 'superstar'.  His ceiling may simply be solid NBA starter but he's taking this approach that he has to be 'the guy' when he's got possibly 3 better players on the court with him plus a 5 in Kanter who has proven that he can score consistently.

Play within the team, move the ball when appropriate and maybe consider deferring a little bit.  Last night was one game, yes, but it was a repeat of last year - save for him at least trying to get to the basket more.  Problem was he couldn't finish against Philly's length and he kept trying - at the expense of the team's offensive cohesion.

They were playing pretty well last night till he tried to 'take over' in the 2Q.

[Atzar]

Kemba had a horrible night too. If we are going to judge players on one game where pretty much everyone other than hayward was cold then. Kemba was a bad signing as well!

They will get better. Less mid range shots from tatum is nice. Those layups will fall just needs to keep attacking the basket

The thing is, I wasn't judging Tatum based on whether his shots went in last night or not.  I'm judging Tatum because he's still very indecisive off the catch and he still has tunnel vision when the ball is in his hands.  Again... these are flaws that he has had since high school. 

Kemba has an extensive track record that says he'll figure it out.  Tatum now has an extensive track record that says he won't.  That's why I'm fine with Kemba but critical of Tatum. 

[Rosco917]

My problem isn't just Tatum.

It's the lack of passing, and the lack of cohesive play in general was evident. We only had eight assist by the entire first unit the entire game.

We need Smart with the first unit next to Walker. He finds open men and gets them the ball. The same with Hayward. Both draw defenders, and look to pass the ball.

It wasn't just Tatum, we had no real point guard the entire game.

[Fierce1]

It's one game.

Let's see what Tatum does after 1 game.

Even the great Paul Pierce only shot 44% from the field in his first 2 years in the NBA.

Tatum shot 47.5% his rookie year and 45% his 2nd year.

All the greats wanted to be the man.
Tatum is no different.

Worst case scenario is Tatum just ends up an All-Star player.

Best case scenario is Tatum ends up becoming a star like Paul Pierce.

[Fierce1]

My problem isn't just Tatum.

It's the lack of passing, and the lack of cohesive play in general was evident. We only had eight assist by the entire first unit the entire game.

We need Smart with the first unit next to Walker. He finds open men and gets them the ball. The same with Hayward. Both draw defenders, and look to pass the ball.

It wasn't just Tatum, we had no real point guard the entire game.

Totally agree that Smart needs to be with the starters.

Brown needs to be the scorer off the bench.

Last season the Celts went on a winning streak after Smart replaced Brown as the starter.

[gift]

Loved what I saw from Tatum in game 1. He's not a perfect player but he continues to improve. The shots will drop and I liked his motor. He's on a different level defensively from where he was as a rookie. Like I actually think he's going to be known as a legit two-way player in a couple years (maybe by the end of this year). Kid's still 21 and there's no shine left? No.

[Kuberski33]

It's one game.

Let's see what Tatum does after 1 game.

Even the great Paul Pierce only shot 44% from the field in his first 2 years in the NBA.

Tatum shot 47.5% his rookie year and 45% his 2nd year.

All the greats wanted to be the man.
Tatum is no different.

Worst case scenario is Tatum just ends up an All-Star player.

Best case scenario is Tatum ends up becoming a star like Paul Pierce.

Pierce was a force right from the start - and his stats were impacted by playing for a crappy team.  Far better player a couple of years in than Tatum is currently.

[#1P4P]

This thread is not going to age well when Tatum matures into averaging 20+ PPG on 45-40-80 splits.

Shot selection, finishing at the rim, vision, and the other critiques are things that can be developed with maturity. He's getting to his spots, getting his shot off, and staying aggressive. These are the types of games that he has to have to be the great player he will be.

I enjoyed that he was as aggressive as he was last night, despite the shots not falling. The lack of aggressiveness he'd shown was something that could've impeded him from being great more than any of the criticism. The aggression was even better because it was with Brad's blessing (as evidenced by being the leader in minutes last night). Unlike the negative ones here, the Celtics' brass know what they have in Tatum and understand that there will be growing pains into him becoming that.

His ability to post up and be comfortable getting his shot in the mid-range is going to be the key to finishing playoff games when teams take away 3s and close the lane. The ones criticizing him today will be applauding tomorrow.

[seancally]

It's one game.

Let's see what Tatum does after 1 game.

Even the great Paul Pierce only shot 44% from the field in his first 2 years in the NBA.

Tatum shot 47.5% his rookie year and 45% his 2nd year.

All the greats wanted to be the man.
Tatum is no different.

Worst case scenario is Tatum just ends up an All-Star player.

Best case scenario is Tatum ends up becoming a star like Paul Pierce.

Pierce was a force right from the start - and his stats were impacted by playing for a crappy team.  Far better player a couple of years in than Tatum is currently.

Pierce was in college for 3 years.

[PhoSita]

This is my take as well, though I would add that I question whether he's athletic enough to ever be a 'superstar'.  His ceiling may simply be solid NBA starter but he's taking this approach that he has to be 'the guy' when he's got possibly 3 better players on the court with him plus a 5 in Kanter who has proven that he can score consistently.

There are not three more talented scorers on this team than Jayson Tatum.

Kemba is a better scorer now, Tatum has a higher ceiling.


For the Celts to get to where they want to go, Tatum has to become a lead scoring option.  He's demonstrated that he has the body, the skills, and the stamina to do it against good teams.  He's got work to do, but if he is just a solid starter, the Celts are going to be stuck in mediocrity for a while.


Nights like last night are just part of what the Celts will have to go through if they're going to have Tatum work his way into the kind of player they need him to be.

He may never get there, but if that's the case, it's good to know. 

[Fierce1]

It's one game.

Let's see what Tatum does after 1 game.

Even the great Paul Pierce only shot 44% from the field in his first 2 years in the NBA.

Tatum shot 47.5% his rookie year and 45% his 2nd year.

All the greats wanted to be the man.
Tatum is no different.

Worst case scenario is Tatum just ends up an All-Star player.

Best case scenario is Tatum ends up becoming a star like Paul Pierce.

Pierce was a force right from the start - and his stats were impacted by playing for a crappy team.  Far better player a couple of years in than Tatum is currently.

When Pierce played his first regular season game as a Celtic, he was 21 years old.

Right now Jayson Tatum is in his 3rd year in the NBA and he's still 21 years old.

The difference is Tatum still doesn't have that NBA body.

[droopdog7]

It's one game.

Let's see what Tatum does after 1 game.

Even the great Paul Pierce only shot 44% from the field in his first 2 years in the NBA.

Tatum shot 47.5% his rookie year and 45% his 2nd year.

All the greats wanted to be the man.
Tatum is no different.

Worst case scenario is Tatum just ends up an All-Star player.

Best case scenario is Tatum ends up becoming a star like Paul Pierce.

This is the crux of the discussion for me.  I'd say worst case scenario is not an all star at all.  At least not multiple-time all star.  I'm not sure what worst case really is but Tatum is trending more and more into Harrison Barnes, Rudy Gay, and Andrew Wiggins territory as a likely outcome.

[Fierce1]

It's one game.

Let's see what Tatum does after 1 game.

Even the great Paul Pierce only shot 44% from the field in his first 2 years in the NBA.

Tatum shot 47.5% his rookie year and 45% his 2nd year.

All the greats wanted to be the man.
Tatum is no different.

Worst case scenario is Tatum just ends up an All-Star player.

Best case scenario is Tatum ends up becoming a star like Paul Pierce.

This is the crux of the discussion for me.  I'd say worst case scenario is not an all star at all.  At least not multiple-time all star.  I'm not sure what worst case really is but Tatum is trending more and more into Harrison Barnes, Rudy Gay, and Andrew Wiggins territory as a likely outcome.

Worst case scenario is Tatum ends up like Shawn Marion.

[droopdog7]

It's one game.

Let's see what Tatum does after 1 game.

Even the great Paul Pierce only shot 44% from the field in his first 2 years in the NBA.

Tatum shot 47.5% his rookie year and 45% his 2nd year.

All the greats wanted to be the man.
Tatum is no different.

Worst case scenario is Tatum just ends up an All-Star player.

Best case scenario is Tatum ends up becoming a star like Paul Pierce.

Pierce was a force right from the start - and his stats were impacted by playing for a crappy team.  Far better player a couple of years in than Tatum is currently.

When Pierce played his first regular season game as a Celtic, he was 21 years old.

Right now Jayson Tatum is in his 3rd year in the NBA and he's still 21 years old.

The difference is Tatum still doesn't have that NBA body.

One thing regarding Pierce.  He had room for error because of his ability to get to the line.  It was also a different time and a different game at that point. 

For Tatum it still way too much iso ball for my liking.  Unlike Kemba and Hayward (and even Brown) who come off curls and make simple moves into the heart of the defense to create for themselves and others, Tatum seems to need to stop the ball and face his man far too often.  His game disrupts the flow of the offense.