2019 Historical Draft Thread(TIME TO REVEAL THE WINNER!!!)

[Silky]

More on my Hedu pick

at 6foot10 Hedu is able to play both the SF and the PF spot.

During his peak season he put up 19.5, 5.7 and 5 assists while shooting 40% from the three point line on 5 attempts per game. that season he was also incredibly clutch when called upon.

Hedo is exactly what my team needed from the combo forward position as a secondary playmaker, and someone who can hit jumpshots, grab rebounds and start the break.

I don’t love it, although I understand why you made the pick. If Hedo is your secondary playmaker in a league of all-time greats, I think there are problems. Also, there’s no way he can cover threes or fours in this league.

I pegged you for a different SF, although he might have been controversial.

I am happy with the pick, I made it 3 hours from home, without any of my notes or anything and he is the only player I could remember at the time, sending you a PM about who you thought.

[Roy H.]

Jason Kidd is an amazing pick. Great, great defender and a triple double threat.

I’d be very tempted to go:

Ewing
Malone
Bird
Pierce
Kidd

6th man: Tiny

I love this team as a team, not just as a collection of talent.

Me too. I would definitely do that. The team has enough scorers in the starting lineup. Someone like Kidd who influences the game more as outside of scoring makes them better than Tiny does. Plus, Tiny would be awesome as a change-of-pace PG off the bench. 6th man extraordinaire.

Kidd is sensational value at this point. He was my 2nd choice at PG in the 3rd round. I thought we were going to have a rush of big PGs to help matchup against Oscar and Magic. Obviously I was wrong but I had expected Kidd, Frazier and Payton to all go in that 3rd round.

I dont like the fit of Kidd and Bird personally.
Bird deserves to have the ball, alot, and Kidds peak as a player saw him as a high usage PG with very limited range.

I think a 3andD point gaurd would have suited Bird much much more.

Disagree. Bird loved playing alongside and off ball with a certain PG, who, though he wasn't the passer of Kidd, is a similar player. Bird loved smart basketball minds. He would thrive playing with the very high BBIQ, Kidd.

Agree strongly.

I read a study once — maybe coming out of the SloanConference? — indicating that championship teams tended to feature at least two guys who shared a lot of touches and created a lot of baskets for others.  Look st some of the great teams: Celtics, Spurs, Heat, Warriors, Cavs, Bulls. All had multiple guys who had the ball frequently.

Bird and Kidd feeding Malone the ball? Pierce playing an inside / outside game? Ewing in the post? 4 All-NBA defenders? Tiny off the bench?

Get outta here. I love it.

[mobilija]

Jason Kidd is an amazing pick. Great, great defender and a triple double threat.

I’d be very tempted to go:

Ewing
Malone
Bird
Pierce
Kidd

6th man: Tiny

I love this team as a team, not just as a collection of talent.

Co-sign. I think that player ordering has better balance. 

[Silky]

Jason Kidd is an amazing pick. Great, great defender and a triple double threat.

I’d be very tempted to go:

Ewing
Malone
Bird
Pierce
Kidd

6th man: Tiny

I love this team as a team, not just as a collection of talent.

Me too. I would definitely do that. The team has enough scorers in the starting lineup. Someone like Kidd who influences the game more as outside of scoring makes them better than Tiny does. Plus, Tiny would be awesome as a change-of-pace PG off the bench. 6th man extraordinaire.

Kidd is sensational value at this point. He was my 2nd choice at PG in the 3rd round. I thought we were going to have a rush of big PGs to help matchup against Oscar and Magic. Obviously I was wrong but I had expected Kidd, Frazier and Payton to all go in that 3rd round.

I dont like the fit of Kidd and Bird personally.
Bird deserves to have the ball, alot, and Kidds peak as a player saw him as a high usage PG with very limited range.

I think a 3andD point gaurd would have suited Bird much much more.

Disagree. Bird loved playing alongside and off ball with a certain PG, who, though he wasn't the passer of Kidd, is a similar player. Bird loved smart basketball minds. He would thrive playing with the very high BBIQ, Kidd.

Agree strongly.

I read a study once — maybe coming out of the SloanConference? — indicating that championship teams tended to feature at least two guys who shared a lot of touches and created a lot of baskets for others.  Look st some of the great teams: Celtics, Spurs, Heat, Warriors, Cavs, Bulls. All had multiple guys who had the ball frequently.

Bird and Kidd feeding Malone the ball? Pierce playing an inside / outside game? Ewing in the post? 4 All-NBA defenders? Tiny off the bench?

Get outta here. I love it.

Ewing who cannot go 13 feet away and is slow as molasses, Tiny who is grossly undersized, Pierce needing the ball, Bird needing the ball, and Kidd needing the ball. there is no off the ball players on that team at all.

Zero

None

[gouki88]

Yeah, I think Kidd definitely fits my team. Immediately addresses any concerns about Tiny's defence because he can move to the bench, where he'd likely thrive as the chief runner of the offence, while adding great play-making, rebounding and he had seasons of being able to stretch the floor.

Kidd was an All-Defence guy basically for 10 years in a row, and has the most rebounds of any guard ever. He's also 10th in all time 3 pointers made. I'm really not concerned about him causing spacing issues or being unable to defend opposing guards.

[Roy H.]

Jason Kidd is an amazing pick. Great, great defender and a triple double threat.

I’d be very tempted to go:

Ewing
Malone
Bird
Pierce
Kidd

6th man: Tiny

I love this team as a team, not just as a collection of talent.

Me too. I would definitely do that. The team has enough scorers in the starting lineup. Someone like Kidd who influences the game more as outside of scoring makes them better than Tiny does. Plus, Tiny would be awesome as a change-of-pace PG off the bench. 6th man extraordinaire.

Kidd is sensational value at this point. He was my 2nd choice at PG in the 3rd round. I thought we were going to have a rush of big PGs to help matchup against Oscar and Magic. Obviously I was wrong but I had expected Kidd, Frazier and Payton to all go in that 3rd round.

I dont like the fit of Kidd and Bird personally.
Bird deserves to have the ball, alot, and Kidds peak as a player saw him as a high usage PG with very limited range.

I think a 3andD point gaurd would have suited Bird much much more.

Disagree. Bird loved playing alongside and off ball with a certain PG, who, though he wasn't the passer of Kidd, is a similar player. Bird loved smart basketball minds. He would thrive playing with the very high BBIQ, Kidd.

Agree strongly.

I read a study once — maybe coming out of the SloanConference? — indicating that championship teams tended to feature at least two guys who shared a lot of touches and created a lot of baskets for others.  Look st some of the great teams: Celtics, Spurs, Heat, Warriors, Cavs, Bulls. All had multiple guys who had the ball frequently.

Bird and Kidd feeding Malone the ball? Pierce playing an inside / outside game? Ewing in the post? 4 All-NBA defenders? Tiny off the bench?

Get outta here. I love it.

Ewing who cannot go 13 feet away and is slow as molasses, Tiny who is grossly undersized, Pierce needing the ball, Bird needing the ball, and Kidd needing the ball. there is no off the ball players on that team at all.

Zero

None

I think we profoundly disagree.

I assume you never saw Ewing play?

[Silky]

Jason Kidd is an amazing pick. Great, great defender and a triple double threat.

I’d be very tempted to go:

Ewing
Malone
Bird
Pierce
Kidd

6th man: Tiny

I love this team as a team, not just as a collection of talent.

Me too. I would definitely do that. The team has enough scorers in the starting lineup. Someone like Kidd who influences the game more as outside of scoring makes them better than Tiny does. Plus, Tiny would be awesome as a change-of-pace PG off the bench. 6th man extraordinaire.

Kidd is sensational value at this point. He was my 2nd choice at PG in the 3rd round. I thought we were going to have a rush of big PGs to help matchup against Oscar and Magic. Obviously I was wrong but I had expected Kidd, Frazier and Payton to all go in that 3rd round.

I dont like the fit of Kidd and Bird personally.
Bird deserves to have the ball, alot, and Kidds peak as a player saw him as a high usage PG with very limited range.

I think a 3andD point gaurd would have suited Bird much much more.

Disagree. Bird loved playing alongside and off ball with a certain PG, who, though he wasn't the passer of Kidd, is a similar player. Bird loved smart basketball minds. He would thrive playing with the very high BBIQ, Kidd.

Agree strongly.

I read a study once — maybe coming out of the SloanConference? — indicating that championship teams tended to feature at least two guys who shared a lot of touches and created a lot of baskets for others.  Look st some of the great teams: Celtics, Spurs, Heat, Warriors, Cavs, Bulls. All had multiple guys who had the ball frequently.

Bird and Kidd feeding Malone the ball? Pierce playing an inside / outside game? Ewing in the post? 4 All-NBA defenders? Tiny off the bench?

Get outta here. I love it.

Ewing who cannot go 13 feet away and is slow as molasses, Tiny who is grossly undersized, Pierce needing the ball, Bird needing the ball, and Kidd needing the ball. there is no off the ball players on that team at all.

Zero

None

I think we profoundly disagree.

I assume you never saw Ewing play?

I saw knee pad ewing who could get out of his own way.

Never stepped further than 15 feet from the rim.

[GreenFaith1819]

Question - probably should've asked this earlier -

How are we grading ourselves? Each other?

Drafting absolute best talent available? Regardless of fit? As I look at our rosters there is ONLY SO MUCH basketball to go around.....

Drafting best Offensive Team?

Drafting best Defensive Team?

Drafting best Overall Team?

I'm also assuming - based on how we've progressed so far - that ANY players from yesteryear are being fast-forwarded to NBA today - which is fine.

It's in the rules. It is just one vote. Rank the 11 teams as best to worse. Rank the conferences. I do the rest and determine who wins each conference and title.

I will release everyone's votes publicly after declaring the winner.

I am toying with the idea of taking votes from outsiders and releasing what non-participants would have had as a winner. Not sure about that yet.

A comment from the commish: I see some of you guys didn't read the rules/draft times like I asked. 😉😋😅😅😅

Thanks Nick.

Should be a very interesting last few rounds as we grab the remaining nuggets and great role players left.

Is that a clue???

https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/slam_500_greatest.html

Nick - please delete if that link isn't allowed.

I've been using that link. Granted - it IS from 2011 and some players have risen / fallen based off of CURRENT greats. But still a ton of nuggets left there...IMO even some starters I think.

[gouki88]

Jason Kidd is an amazing pick. Great, great defender and a triple double threat.

I’d be very tempted to go:

Ewing
Malone
Bird
Pierce
Kidd

6th man: Tiny

I love this team as a team, not just as a collection of talent.

Me too. I would definitely do that. The team has enough scorers in the starting lineup. Someone like Kidd who influences the game more as outside of scoring makes them better than Tiny does. Plus, Tiny would be awesome as a change-of-pace PG off the bench. 6th man extraordinaire.

Kidd is sensational value at this point. He was my 2nd choice at PG in the 3rd round. I thought we were going to have a rush of big PGs to help matchup against Oscar and Magic. Obviously I was wrong but I had expected Kidd, Frazier and Payton to all go in that 3rd round.

I dont like the fit of Kidd and Bird personally.
Bird deserves to have the ball, alot, and Kidds peak as a player saw him as a high usage PG with very limited range.

I think a 3andD point gaurd would have suited Bird much much more.

Disagree. Bird loved playing alongside and off ball with a certain PG, who, though he wasn't the passer of Kidd, is a similar player. Bird loved smart basketball minds. He would thrive playing with the very high BBIQ, Kidd.

Agree strongly.

I read a study once — maybe coming out of the SloanConference? — indicating that championship teams tended to feature at least two guys who shared a lot of touches and created a lot of baskets for others.  Look st some of the great teams: Celtics, Spurs, Heat, Warriors, Cavs, Bulls. All had multiple guys who had the ball frequently.

Bird and Kidd feeding Malone the ball? Pierce playing an inside / outside game? Ewing in the post? 4 All-NBA defenders? Tiny off the bench?

Get outta here. I love it.

Ewing who cannot go 13 feet away and is slow as molasses, Tiny who is grossly undersized, Pierce needing the ball, Bird needing the ball, and Kidd needing the ball. there is no off the ball players on that team at all.

Zero

None

Lol. In Ewing's last two seasons (the only seasons with the shooting stats available on BBRef), Ewing shot 24.3% of his shots from between 10-16 feet, and 12% of his shots from 16 feet out to the arc. He hit those shots at 34.8% and 39.3% respectively. Can't imagine in the modern game he wouldn't have developed a solid mid-range game.

I also laugh at the implication that Bird can't play off the ball, and neither can Kidd. Bird had a USG% higher than 30 one time in his career. Kidd's highest was 25.9. Pierce had high usage seasons, but he also was easily able to change his role once he actually had a talented team. You're also conveniently glossing over that Bird and Kidd are top 5 passers for their position all-time.

[Silky]

Yeah, I think Kidd definitely fits my team. Immediately addresses any concerns about Tiny's defence because he can move to the bench, where he'd likely thrive as the chief runner of the offence, while adding great play-making, rebounding and he had seasons of being able to stretch the floor.

Kidd was an All-Defence guy basically for 10 years in a row, and has the most rebounds of any guard ever. He's also 10th in all time 3 pointers made. I'm really not concerned about him causing spacing issues or being unable to defend opposing guards.

He didnt shoot good until his later years, when his defense really dropped.

If you want all nba defense, you have no range on his shot.

2005-2006 was his last all nba defense selection, and he shot 35% from 3, 40$ from the floor not very good.

that season he put up 12,8 and 7.

[Silky]

Jason Kidd is an amazing pick. Great, great defender and a triple double threat.

I’d be very tempted to go:

Ewing
Malone
Bird
Pierce
Kidd

6th man: Tiny

I love this team as a team, not just as a collection of talent.

Me too. I would definitely do that. The team has enough scorers in the starting lineup. Someone like Kidd who influences the game more as outside of scoring makes them better than Tiny does. Plus, Tiny would be awesome as a change-of-pace PG off the bench. 6th man extraordinaire.

Kidd is sensational value at this point. He was my 2nd choice at PG in the 3rd round. I thought we were going to have a rush of big PGs to help matchup against Oscar and Magic. Obviously I was wrong but I had expected Kidd, Frazier and Payton to all go in that 3rd round.

I dont like the fit of Kidd and Bird personally.
Bird deserves to have the ball, alot, and Kidds peak as a player saw him as a high usage PG with very limited range.

I think a 3andD point gaurd would have suited Bird much much more.

Disagree. Bird loved playing alongside and off ball with a certain PG, who, though he wasn't the passer of Kidd, is a similar player. Bird loved smart basketball minds. He would thrive playing with the very high BBIQ, Kidd.

Agree strongly.

I read a study once — maybe coming out of the SloanConference? — indicating that championship teams tended to feature at least two guys who shared a lot of touches and created a lot of baskets for others.  Look st some of the great teams: Celtics, Spurs, Heat, Warriors, Cavs, Bulls. All had multiple guys who had the ball frequently.

Bird and Kidd feeding Malone the ball? Pierce playing an inside / outside game? Ewing in the post? 4 All-NBA defenders? Tiny off the bench?

Get outta here. I love it.

Ewing who cannot go 13 feet away and is slow as molasses, Tiny who is grossly undersized, Pierce needing the ball, Bird needing the ball, and Kidd needing the ball. there is no off the ball players on that team at all.

Zero

None

Lol. In Ewing's last two seasons (the only seasons with the shooting stats available on BBRef), Ewing shot 24.3% of his shots from between 10-16 feet, and 12% of his shots from 16 feet out to the arc. He hit those shots at 34.8% and 39.3% respectively. Can't imagine in the modern game he wouldn't have developed a solid mid-range game.

I also laugh at the implication that Bird can't play off the ball, and neither can Kidd. Bird had a USG% higher than 30 one time in his career. Kidd's highest was 25.9. Pierce had high usage seasons, but he also was easily able to change his role once he actually had a talented team. You're also conveniently glossing over that Bird and Kidd are top 5 passers for their position all-time.

I didnt say bird couldnt play off the ball, i think it would be foolish to take the ball out of his hands.

And kidd needs the ball to initiate offense.

They are great passers though, yup.

Not sold on it, but on a celtics forum, anything with bird in the lineup will get lots of votes, so you are good.

Ewing got a better shot much later in his career. So if you want to use a 39 year old Ewing, great.

[Roy H.]

Jason Kidd is an amazing pick. Great, great defender and a triple double threat.

I’d be very tempted to go:

Ewing
Malone
Bird
Pierce
Kidd

6th man: Tiny

I love this team as a team, not just as a collection of talent.

Me too. I would definitely do that. The team has enough scorers in the starting lineup. Someone like Kidd who influences the game more as outside of scoring makes them better than Tiny does. Plus, Tiny would be awesome as a change-of-pace PG off the bench. 6th man extraordinaire.

Kidd is sensational value at this point. He was my 2nd choice at PG in the 3rd round. I thought we were going to have a rush of big PGs to help matchup against Oscar and Magic. Obviously I was wrong but I had expected Kidd, Frazier and Payton to all go in that 3rd round.

I dont like the fit of Kidd and Bird personally.
Bird deserves to have the ball, alot, and Kidds peak as a player saw him as a high usage PG with very limited range.

I think a 3andD point gaurd would have suited Bird much much more.

Disagree. Bird loved playing alongside and off ball with a certain PG, who, though he wasn't the passer of Kidd, is a similar player. Bird loved smart basketball minds. He would thrive playing with the very high BBIQ, Kidd.

Agree strongly.

I read a study once — maybe coming out of the SloanConference? — indicating that championship teams tended to feature at least two guys who shared a lot of touches and created a lot of baskets for others.  Look st some of the great teams: Celtics, Spurs, Heat, Warriors, Cavs, Bulls. All had multiple guys who had the ball frequently.

Bird and Kidd feeding Malone the ball? Pierce playing an inside / outside game? Ewing in the post? 4 All-NBA defenders? Tiny off the bench?

Get outta here. I love it.

Ewing who cannot go 13 feet away and is slow as molasses, Tiny who is grossly undersized, Pierce needing the ball, Bird needing the ball, and Kidd needing the ball. there is no off the ball players on that team at all.

Zero

None

I think we profoundly disagree.

I assume you never saw Ewing play?

I saw knee pad ewing who could get out of his own way.

Never stepped further than 15 feet from the rim.

A lot of us still remember this series:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bwCjvAQyHjM

Slower than molasses?  31 points / 8 rebounds / 10 assists / 4 blocks and several long jumpers.

Take the 6 minutes to watch. There’s a reason he was a Dream Teamer.

[action781]

Yeah, I think Kidd definitely fits my team. Immediately addresses any concerns about Tiny's defence because he can move to the bench, where he'd likely thrive as the chief runner of the offence, while adding great play-making, rebounding and he had seasons of being able to stretch the floor.

Kidd was an All-Defence guy basically for 10 years in a row, and has the most rebounds of any guard ever. He's also 10th in all time 3 pointers made. I'm really not concerned about him causing spacing issues or being unable to defend opposing guards.

I think Kidd causes spacing issues if you choose him early in his career.  He was a pretty poor shooter and overall inefficient scorer during that '02 - '04 stretch when his team always beat the Celtics, which I think was his peak.  His shooting almost felt like a liability.  But he did enough other things so well that he was still an amazing player.  But I think you hafta choose though.  Your team fits '02-'04 Kidd with having such great outside shooters on the wing.

[GreenFaith1819]

Jason Kidd is an amazing pick. Great, great defender and a triple double threat.

I’d be very tempted to go:

Ewing
Malone
Bird
Pierce
Kidd

6th man: Tiny

I love this team as a team, not just as a collection of talent.

Me too. I would definitely do that. The team has enough scorers in the starting lineup. Someone like Kidd who influences the game more as outside of scoring makes them better than Tiny does. Plus, Tiny would be awesome as a change-of-pace PG off the bench. 6th man extraordinaire.

Kidd is sensational value at this point. He was my 2nd choice at PG in the 3rd round. I thought we were going to have a rush of big PGs to help matchup against Oscar and Magic. Obviously I was wrong but I had expected Kidd, Frazier and Payton to all go in that 3rd round.

I dont like the fit of Kidd and Bird personally.
Bird deserves to have the ball, alot, and Kidds peak as a player saw him as a high usage PG with very limited range.

I think a 3andD point gaurd would have suited Bird much much more.

Disagree. Bird loved playing alongside and off ball with a certain PG, who, though he wasn't the passer of Kidd, is a similar player. Bird loved smart basketball minds. He would thrive playing with the very high BBIQ, Kidd.

Agree strongly.

I read a study once — maybe coming out of the SloanConference? — indicating that championship teams tended to feature at least two guys who shared a lot of touches and created a lot of baskets for others.  Look st some of the great teams: Celtics, Spurs, Heat, Warriors, Cavs, Bulls. All had multiple guys who had the ball frequently.

Bird and Kidd feeding Malone the ball? Pierce playing an inside / outside game? Ewing in the post? 4 All-NBA defenders? Tiny off the bench?

Get outta here. I love it.

Ewing who cannot go 13 feet away and is slow as molasses, Tiny who is grossly undersized, Pierce needing the ball, Bird needing the ball, and Kidd needing the ball. there is no off the ball players on that team at all.

Zero

None

I think we profoundly disagree.

I assume you never saw Ewing play?

I saw knee pad ewing who could get out of his own way.

Never stepped further than 15 feet from the rim.

I think Pat, Malone and Larry would be fine...didn't those three play on the greatest Olympic Team ever?

I think Kidd wouldn't mind taking a backseat...he can rebound, pass and defend. I think Paul would be a willing 4th wheel - even capable of scoring binges himself.

My only concern is how Ewing would fair against the All-Time Great centers like Hakeem, Shaq, Wilt, David, Malone, etc...and even then he'd have Malone to help him down low....but THEN - if Pat and Malone doubled, those same great Bigs are well-known for PASSING.....

I wish we could simulate these rosters.

[Silky]

Jason Kidd is an amazing pick. Great, great defender and a triple double threat.

I’d be very tempted to go:

Ewing
Malone
Bird
Pierce
Kidd

6th man: Tiny

I love this team as a team, not just as a collection of talent.

Me too. I would definitely do that. The team has enough scorers in the starting lineup. Someone like Kidd who influences the game more as outside of scoring makes them better than Tiny does. Plus, Tiny would be awesome as a change-of-pace PG off the bench. 6th man extraordinaire.

Kidd is sensational value at this point. He was my 2nd choice at PG in the 3rd round. I thought we were going to have a rush of big PGs to help matchup against Oscar and Magic. Obviously I was wrong but I had expected Kidd, Frazier and Payton to all go in that 3rd round.

I dont like the fit of Kidd and Bird personally.
Bird deserves to have the ball, alot, and Kidds peak as a player saw him as a high usage PG with very limited range.

I think a 3andD point gaurd would have suited Bird much much more.

Disagree. Bird loved playing alongside and off ball with a certain PG, who, though he wasn't the passer of Kidd, is a similar player. Bird loved smart basketball minds. He would thrive playing with the very high BBIQ, Kidd.

Agree strongly.

I read a study once — maybe coming out of the SloanConference? — indicating that championship teams tended to feature at least two guys who shared a lot of touches and created a lot of baskets for others.  Look st some of the great teams: Celtics, Spurs, Heat, Warriors, Cavs, Bulls. All had multiple guys who had the ball frequently.

Bird and Kidd feeding Malone the ball? Pierce playing an inside / outside game? Ewing in the post? 4 All-NBA defenders? Tiny off the bench?

Get outta here. I love it.

Ewing who cannot go 13 feet away and is slow as molasses, Tiny who is grossly undersized, Pierce needing the ball, Bird needing the ball, and Kidd needing the ball. there is no off the ball players on that team at all.

Zero

None

I think we profoundly disagree.

I assume you never saw Ewing play?

I saw knee pad ewing who could get out of his own way.

Never stepped further than 15 feet from the rim.

A lot of us still remember this series:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bwCjvAQyHjM

Slower than molasses?

Doesnt look that fast to me.

Also doesnt show that range out to the 3pt line either,


I will just agree to disagree, ...


My banter had become dismissive and over the line, I did not realize, sorry.